Topic: Could killing intestinal parasites make treatment more difficult?
canefan17
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posted
Is killing intestinal parasites always a good idea?
Could we be possibly opening up pandoras box and making treatment of Lyme/Cos more difficult?
A lot of the old school LLMDs (who are well) didn't treat intestinal parasites.
I know quite a few people who are in remission and didn't touch intestinal parasites.
If healthy people have parasites too and the parasites live "in harmony" as a part of our intestinal terrain and internal ecosystem... why stir them up?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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glm1111
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posted
"Why stir them up?" Because they can migrate to the brain and other organs and tissue, laying eggs and larva, as much as 200,000 eggs a day. I have read that most neuro degenerative diseases can be attributed to parasites.
If a Lyme patient or someone with a chronic illness is infected and immunocompromised, and you start experiencing lesions, it can be life threatening and a definite symptom that you are infected with parasites.
I can only speak for myself, but if I had not gone after parasites, I would not be here. Can't imagine not going after the infection pictured in www.lymephotos.com
canefan,
were the people you know in remission chronically ill for years? To each his own I guess.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
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posted
- Gael's post has excellent points. -
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Tammy N.
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posted
I think that all of us who are struggling with chronic infections can only benefit from dealing with chronic parasite infections as well. I think when we've been ill for some time, all of the bugs start winning....including parasites. And I don't think there is any way to truly heal our guts when parasites are present. 70-80% of our immune system in centered in our gut.
I don't personally know many people that have conquered chronic lyme going the conventional (abx) way..... in fact I don't know anyone personally. Just a few on this board..... TF being the most noteable. I think it's a rather rare occurrance, imo. Even the great Dr. H said that 95% (or 99%??)) of his patients crash when they stop abx. Maybe it's because parasites are not being addressed aggressively/thoroughly?? One can only guess.
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RZR
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posted
The first 1-1/2 years of lyme treatment, I had no idea I had parasites.
I have been treating and passing parasites now for over 1-1/2 years....almost daily! I cannot imagine how many parasites I had and still have....even after very aggressive treatment.
I think parasites make me feel just as ill as lyme & co.
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sparkle7
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posted
I think it's a good idea to get rid of them. Just speaking from my experience. If you are generally well, your body can defend itself from getting overloaded with parasites.
If you are fighting alot of other illness or toxins - the parasites can over populate & cause additional problems that make it harder to get well. They become opportunistic. Once they get a foothold - it's hard to get rid of them. They can do some damage & make you ill.
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Tammy N.
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Wow RZR, after 1 1/2 years you are still passing parasites daily?!! Wow. May I ask what treatments you have been doing and what you are on now? Also, how have your symptoms improved since treating parasites?
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
I am just finishing up Dr. K parasite protocol. It made me extremely ill, but I see that as a necessary evil. I have been on orals and IM and most recently IV abx, all with holistic support of immune system, hormones, etc, etc. I am really hoping the parasites are a key to why I have not made greater progress, 1.5 yrs onto tx.
Posts: 101 | From USA | Registered: Jul 2011
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surprise
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posted
But don't forget that in 'typical' proper LLMD Lyme treatment,
Flagyl or Tindamax are used for durations of time-
and these most definitely hit parasites, maybe that is enough for some.
I had done parasite protocols before (and 'saw')
but it wasn't until I started Tindamax for longer durations, and glut suppositories, that I really became aware of what a large piece for me.
And who knows now with the FL 1953 maybe at play for some, too...then deeper parasite treatment.
But I think if you have evidence or herx from 'some' then there is 'more' Nasty infection/issue for the body to have.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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gigimac
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posted
I wonder if those of us who herx so badly from flagyl don't have bad parasite issues? The herx I had from flagyl and salt c were soo similar and both were horrible.
I wish I could stick with salt c but it just knocks me for a loop even at low doses, which makes me think parasites. doxy doesn't do that to me.
gotta find a way to address these parasites soon, thinking low dose ivermectin.
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
From what I have read on here, Dr.K has all new patients on parasite treatment. That is very telling if true.
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canefan17
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posted
I understand - and I've generally been a fan of treating parasites.
But now I wonder if many of us aren't just making things worse (metals, bacteria, fungi) released.
You CAN activate things in the body that otherwise would have remained dormant or unharmful.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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glm1111
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posted
Unchecked bacteria, fungi, parasites etc. left lying dormant in the body, can run the risk of letting these antagonists behave in an insidiuos manner while slowly doing damage to the body and lowering the immune system.
Kinda like not treating a dormant slow growing cancer. If these infections were really dormant, many of us would not be so symptomatic.
Not to mention that some of these parasites can lay up to 200,000 eggs a day and are migrating to the brain and other organs.
Maybe you are thinking of people who are NOT symptomatic and have underlying Lyme and co infections until a major stress or trauma unleashes the disease.
I understand your theory, however, don't think this would apply to people who are chronically ill.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Marnie
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BTW...a sterile bowel/the destruction of all of the beneficial bacteria = severe weight loss, vomiting, passing undigested food, severe depression (MAJOR).
Been there...son...food poisoning + 1 week later appendectomy with follow up abx. = destruction of normal flora (stool spec. checked). Took a long time to restore the balance.
No matter what lyme treatment you are doing, please keep taking probiotics - vary them - daily.
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glm1111
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posted
P. S.
Brings to mind someone in my family who is NOT really sick from Lyme, but has been dx with brain lesions, Hashimotos Thyroiditis, Glaucoma, Hiatal hernia, gerd, occassional air hunger and other symptoms that wax and wane.
Not a doubt in my mind that she has Lyme, and I used to really get upset that she wasn't going to an LLMD for a dx, however, she is NOT suffering on a daily basis at all and living her life.
I have often thought, "maybe she is better off not treating" and just pray that she has no major stress or trauma to unleash everything. Worried tho, that there is underlying damage continuing.
So, yes, I see how you might think the way you do canefan.
I just don't think it applys to people who are in an active state of infection. This disease always keeps us thinking tho, doesn't it?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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canefan17
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posted
Yes it does.
I have similar thoughts about my mom. She's in her 50s - def has Lyme and Bart (she even believes it)... but she's not treating and quite frankly... It's not the end of the world for her.
*shrugs*
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sparkle7
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I think the key is "balance". There will always be bugs... but you don't want to live in a place that is completely infested with roaches, etc.
If you use some kind of insecticide - you could run the risk that it's too toxic - but the bugs carry disease. What do you do?
If they overrun your system & make life impossible for you, you have to kill them off & reduce the damage. It takes time but it's do-able. You just have to keep mopping up the toxins & detoxifying. The longer you put it off - the worse the potential problems will be as you get older.
Every journey begins with the first step. If it's too much, do it gradually over time. Keep killing & detoxifying in balance. Gradually, it gets to be less & less pathogens. Your body will be able to function better so it can heal.
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RZR
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Tammy N.: Wow RZR, after 1 1/2 years you are still passing parasites daily?!! Wow. May I ask what treatments you have been doing and what you are on now? Also, how have your symptoms improved since treating parasites?
I took Parastroy for months. Then tried Vermox, albendazole, Ivermectin. I have completed two Dr. K protocols recommended here. I still have parasites.
I am going to keep repeating the Dr. K protocol, but this go around I am taking albendazole and ivermectin together.
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sparkle7
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Well, if your immune system is not working - you will never get rid of the parasites. You may take the drugs or herbs but essentially your body has to defend itself in the long run.
Eventually, the bugs will build up a resistance to any drug or herb. There will always be parasite eggs in food or in the environment.
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glm1111
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Salt (sea salt) is the one thing they can't build up a resistence to because it shocks them and drys them out. Also, salt is alkaline.
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Marnie
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posted
Sparkle7 is right...absolutely!
But...our immune system needs help.
Bb is triggering "mitochondrial dysfunction" i.e., our defense cells powerhouses aren't able to do their job.
We gotta find a way to increase the ATP level in those defense cells (esp. macrophages) so they can finish the job and not release CWD Bb back into the system when they die (and they are targeted for destruction).
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