glm1111
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posted
Great article and the importance of binding toxins. Thanks for posting GiGi.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kudzuslipper
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WONDERFUL ARTICLE!!! i am going to bring it to my next LLMD appt next week.
Thank you Marnie!
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canefan17
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posted
Kill the bacteria and they'll stop dumping toxins into circulation.
I struggled detoxing my liver for months because I didn't have Bart/Lyme under control.
Get them under control and you can better detox organs and your system.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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glm1111
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posted
Up for scooter
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Catgirl
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posted
Great link!
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Ellen101
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My LLNP doesn't seem to focus much on detox. I'm wondering if this is why I'm not seeing much improvement in my symtoms. I'm a little puzzled as to how best to begin.
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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glm1111
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posted
Get some chlorella as suggested in the article.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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sparkle7
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posted
I did alot of studying about this issue. While it makes sense - there is no actual "proof" that this neurotoxin exists. I know some of you will start "screaming" at me... I just wanted to put this out there.
I have taken Welchol to try to absorb the toxins but it was fairly useless. I got no better & it's a constipating drug. Dr. S also prescribed Actos for neurotoxin binding & there have been a number of issues related to that drug, as well.
So, I am a ittle skeptical about this whole issue. One would think that if it was a "fact" that there would be some actual proof that a Lyme neurotoxin exists. I think there are 1 or 2 studies done by Dr. S who has an "interest" in proving that the toxin exists.
I agree that we can feel "toxic" & binders do seem to help. What is actually causing it is debatable, though. We also don't know if the binders are actually working to remove this toxin.
Definitely needs more scientific studies... Just throwing this out there.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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This one is a bit technical. You can skip to the bottom. Neuroborreliosis the most common and dreaded syndrome I see in patients with disseminated Lyme disease is amongst the most challenging clinical problems seen.
Some mechanisms of CNS dysfunction have been fairly well demonstrated. Bb can cross the blood brain barrier. The pathogens are greeted by local immune cells including: monocytes, macrophages and dendritic cells.
An inflammatory reaction medicated by cytokines and chemokines is initiated. Antibody producing B cells appear in the CSF(spinal fluid) in unexpectedly high numbers.
The Bb bacteria seem to enter glial cells(supporting cells) rather than brain neurons. A proliferation of killer T cell(clones) has been shown. The damage to nerve cells seems to be due to cytotoxic(cell killing)side effects of this process. Autoimmune processes via the production of autoantibodies and molecular mimicry have been established in animal models.
The third purported cause of Lyme/brain disease involves "neurotoxins." From what I can gather, this seems to be a theoretical idea; there is not much science to support it.
The most frequently mentioned neurotoxin is quinolinic acid. High levels of this toxin have been measured in the spinal fluid of patients with various chronic neurological diseases. There is experimental evidence that macrophages incubated with Bb produce quinolinic acid.
Scientific evidence, from my review of the literature, does not support the accumulation of quinolinic acid in the brains, spinal fluid or bile of Lyme patients. If such evidence exists please post it here.
The neurotoxin theory, as it relates to bile acid sequestrants is: Lipid soluble toxins are postulated to be processed through the liver, then end up in bile, which is recirculated.
These toxins are then able to egress back into the blood stream, find their way past the blood brain barrier and cause neurological dysfunction. These toxins have not been identified. Bile binding resins remove these toxins causing an improvement in neurolgical dysfunction.
These ideas stem from theories described by Dr. Shoemaker in Maryland. And have been repeated by Dr. Burrascano in his guidelines.
Standing back, the theory seems dubious at the very least.
In my clinical practice I have tried these drugs: they work! How?
It turns out that Welchol lowers CRP- C-reactive protein, a primary marker for inflammation or immune activation. CRP is a circulating protein which initiates the complement cascade. This a major "effector" mechanism of the immune system.
Rather than removing neurotoxins, Welchol may be removing inflammatory byproducts of the immune response to Lyme infection.
This dovetails with my observation that this drug frequently reduces not only brain inflammation, but can frequently improve other immune mediated symptoms like joint pain.
Bottom line: Welchol and Questran help. They remove "something" that is bound to bile, or by some other mechanism. They lower inflammation based on studies which show a reduction in CRP.
Food for thought: Statin drugs like Lipitor also lower CRP. This mechanism in the prevention of heart disease may be more important than the cholesterol lowering effect. Some studies have shown that patients on statins have a lower rate of Alzheimer's disease. Anti-inflammatory effect? "Neuroprotective" effect?
Better news. Coffee is the new wonder drug. It lowers the risk of Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, liver disease and more. It apparently reduces brain inflammation.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
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posted
What are Neurotoxins?
Here is an incomplete list of COMMON NEUROTOXINS in order of importance:
(i) Heavy metals: such as mercury, lead, cadmium and aluminum. (ii) Biotoxins: such as tetanus toxin, botulinum toxin (botox), ascaridin (from intestinal parasites), unspecified toxins from streptococci, staphylococci, lyme disease, clamydia, tuberculosis, fungal toxins and toxins produced by viruses.
Biotoxins are minute molecules (200-1000 kilodaltons) containing nitrogen and sulfur. They belong to a group of chemical messengers which microorganisms use to control the host�s immune system, host behavior and the host�s eating habits.
(iii) Xenobiotics (man-made environmental toxins): such as dioxin, phthalates, formaldehyde, insecticides, wood preservatives, PCBs etc. (iv) Food Preservatives, excitotoxins and cosmetics: such as aspartame (diet sweeteners) food colorings, fluoride, methyl-and propyl-paraben, etc.
Dr. K. has found that mercury in its different chemical forms has a synergistic amplifying effect with all other neurotoxins. When mercury is removed, the body starts to more effectively eliminate all other neurotoxins, even if they are not addressed.
What are the symptoms? Any illness can be caused by, or contributed to, or exaggerated by neurotoxins. Fatigue, depression, insomnia, memory loss and blunting of the senses are common early symptoms.
All neurotoxins take on a life of their own and are extremely difficult to control when combined with EMF/HRF from which we can no longer escape. Electrosmog is part of our life - and lowering the neurotoxin load is a must if we want to free ourselves. Most of us are not aware of that burden as it affects our daily life.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I have been treating babesia for years and just added low dose Ivermectin. I began to have dull, left rib pain and started taking dandelion and burdock for detox. The pain subsided and released the toxins in my spleen. I could feel the toxicity building up and it dawned on me that it was from the detoxing.
Never had this with babesia meds. Followed with activated charcoal and the toxins were absorbed. Binding toxins makes all the difference in the world!
Posts: 964 | From san diego | Registered: Oct 2009
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GiGi
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posted
Ellen101, "My LLNP doesn't seem to focus much on detox. I'm wondering if this is why I'm not seeing much improvement in my symtoms. I'm a little puzzled as to how best to begin."
Without binders the body becomes more and more toxic which does not contribute to healing. Take binders 4 times a day, 15 minutes before you eat, and at nighttime.
And if you are becoming metal toxic or started out metal toxic, you will need to treat toxic metals. There is no way to get around this, because they block the system up to where normal functions slow down more and more.
Chlorella, Modifilan, Pectin, Bentonite Liquid, Garden of Life Detox, Chitoson, Cholestyramine without Aspartame, Cholestepure, occasional Charcoal, Microsilica, etc. Alternating these always helps. But don't skip them.
All the best to you.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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tickled1
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posted
I know that detox is important but what do those of us that can't tolerate anything do?
For example I couldn't tolerate Chlorella or Cholestyramine.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Gigi, I have a question. What if you're taking antibiotics and anti-parasitis at breakfast and dinner. Obviously, no binders then. Right? So I fit them in when I can. And why fifteen minutes before a meal?
Also, if taking binders, I have to up my colon cleanse which is Oxy-Powder, so I take extra when I'm using binders.
tickled, have you tried activated charcoal or apple pectin?
Posts: 964 | From san diego | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
(Thanks, sparkle7, for the sanity check...)
Posts: 34 | From NYC | Registered: Mar 2012
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
tickled, when I was at that stage, I did not like chlorella nor cholestyramine. I don't like cholestyramine to this date. I take and alternate all the other binders. The more I do, the better. I am on a very massive toxic metal removal and my test results show good emounts in my urin test. Also in my hairtest.
Dr. K. often comments that it is not the bugs that give us the major problems, but rather that it is the neurotoxins that are movilized with microoranism die-off. The metals are the ones who cause the vibrating, the burning, the numbing, every one of the neurological symptoms of pulling, causing joint problems, back problems, heart problems, blood pressure problems, etc.
I will post several lists of the effects/symptoms in the different body compartments, you can then check and see what has been known for many years.
Fact remains that in order to get well, toxic environmental stuff has to be eased out. It takes patience and patience and learning to test energetically is the only way to find your way through the maze. I am fully convinced after my own experience and that of many friends whom I follow closely that not a single one got Lyme because the body was spanking clean. We live on this planet and got sick because we are toxic and the microbes found a home to hang out.
It looks like you have to do some other more basic cleansing in form of colonics or colon cleanses. Any practitioner who can do some muscle testing or you yourself can learn to test with tensor and/or pensulum which of the binders you can tolerate. There is really no way around it, because if you don't "bind" the toxins when they are knocked loose, they will simply be reabsorbed and relocated again. Toxin need to get out OUT OF THE BODY so that the load can be reduced in order for the body to be ab le to start functioning again. Avoid constipation - very important when taking binders, because they usually consist of more fiber than the body is used to.
I hear this same story every time I see Dr. K. and haven't met any one yet who got well without addressing toxic metals. I know people don't like to hear that - but it is fact, and many who thought they have detoxed everything during a short course of antimetals, will find that the stuff is often deep.
Forgive my openess. Metals are the worst neurotoxins and every time you kill a parasite, you are releasing metals inside the body, that screem for binders......
Take care and good things for all.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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posted
Neurotoxins being released into the body actually should be part of this thread:
THERAPY RESISTANT PARASITES
We know that parasites, most of the roundworms and tapeworms have an unbelievable ability to store large amounts of metals in their skin without being metabolically disturbed by it. When a patient has amalgam fillings, usually on a daily basis this nice stream of mercury and tin and other trace metals is coming down, and the worms immediately take that into their coat � they are like a knight in shining armor.
They become completely invulnerable to our own immune system because one thing our white cells cannot handle in large amounts is mercury. Our white cells die when they try to gobble up the mercury. They commit suicide. And it doesn�t help the organism, because when the white cell dies, it releases everything it has stored back into the system. Metals are not �metaboliz-able�. They cannot be transformed into something else that�s not disturbing. Once they are released again, they are just as toxic as they were before.
It has beeen found very often that the big tapeworms or roundworms hanging in the gut with their mouths wide open ready, waiting for the next dose of mercury that they take in and then put it in their coat to protect themselves from our immune system, and one of the first things we do in the treatment of Lyme Disease, we are getting more and more ruthless with the neuroglocal diseases looking for worms.
Dr. K. sees a tremendous increase in the amount of parasites and worms, many different, as never before.
So for all these reasons, we have to treat toxic metals. When parasite treatment is effective, toxic metals are being released and have to be treated.
Colon cancer and some of the lower pelvic cancers are often linked to chronic undetected large parasites people have.
Chronic illnesses that are not generally know to be caused by mercury toxicity, but respond dramatically to systematic mercury elimination (Dr. K�.s personal observation):
Alzheimers, Lymphoma (non-Hodgkins), Chronic intractable depression, Bowel Dysbiosis (yeast syndrome), Most addictions, Behavioral disorders in children and teenagers, Autism, Most chronic pain syndromes, CFIDS and MCS, Many malignancies, Premature aging, Sexual disorders and infertility.
Taking care.
(from many years of learning from Dr. K. and my own experience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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tickled1
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posted
How do I prevent constipation while taking binders?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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sparkle7
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posted
GiGi - I agree that all of the things you mentioned above are toxic. It's just that borrelia burgdorferi neurotoxins have never actually been found. So, I don't really care for the original article suggesting to take chlorestramine. Actos was also part of the Dr S. protocol.
fyi -
Actos was the tenth-best selling drug in the U.S. in 2008, with sales exceeding $2.4 billion.[1] Its cardiovascular safety profile compares favorably with rosiglitazone (Avandia), which was withdrawn after concerns about an increased risk of cardiac events. However, pioglitazone has subsequently been found to be associated with bladder tumors and has been withdrawn in some countries.
---
Binders can be very helpful but they can also bind herbs, supplements & drugs. You have to time their use in accordance with the other things you may be taking.
re: How do I prevent constipation while taking binders?
Try prunes or prune juice. You can also try psylium or some of the herbal laxative combos. Just do a search on Google for - herbal laxative -
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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posted
PS - I'm just curious about this - and I agree with you about parasites...
I know someone who recently had their gall bladder removed who ate alot of sushi. I just wonder how these doctors can operate on people & never actually see all these parasites that I have read about.
Like I said - I agree that parasites are a big problem - I just don't understand how surgeons can not see them with all the operations that they perform.
Does anyone know why this may be?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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tickled1
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Prunes/prune juice don't work for me if you can believe that.
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
try a chinese med store - they carry a tiny pill called I - Ching Sung that work very nicely without any side effects whatsoever. I would not suggest you take psyllium. For a nice innocent binder try Garden of Life Detox. It has no psyllium, but ground flax and some other material. There are many othr substances that will keep the bowels moving. Ask your doctor or pharmacist or check library. It is not healthy to walk around with a gut full of neurotoxins and there are many choices - I have posted lists on binders many times. Where there is a will, there is a way. If you do not believe that binders are needed, base your next move on that.
Sparkle, I have posted references by the thousands in my earlier years talking here about mercury and its devastating effects. You will have to search for it here. I used to have to battle this dentist who was a member here, and I posted hundreds of references trying to convince him.As far as I know, he is still sick. I really am tired of repeating what has been proven thousands of times, with literally every patient that is treated alternatively. We all have a choice and do what we must. Dead borrelia are dead proteins - just another neurotoxin, a nasty one at that if you have them trying to float through your system.
Most parasites are not visible with the bare eye, and most are dead when the stool arrives old at the lab. You should see some of the stuff I have seen from patients bringing into the office! Surgeons do not look at stool- you are lucky if they operate the right spot! and don't remove the wrong body part. Where the labs fail is that you have 20 minutes after the stool is produced to find the parasites in there. The antigen tests don't work, because these guys are masters in changing their antigen presentation.
Dr. K. has done his own research over the last 30 years and I am not asking him for references when he lectures and I don't have the time to copy all that from his handouts. Sorry.
I also do not bring up infections of the jawbone, cavitations, or root canals; those toxins make mercury look a small stepchild. They are the most potent toxins ever studied. But they don't apply to everybody. (Heidelberg University)
Hope you find what you need.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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sparkle7
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posted
I'll check back in your posts, GiGi. It's just that I have seached the internet for relationships between mercury/parasites & metals/yeast & found very little. I would like to study the "source materials" myself. I do read what Dr. K says but I also like to think about things on my own.
I don't doubt these things are related but I want to understand it better - for myself. Dr. K must have a way that he determines things - I just would like to study what he studies.
I don't know a huge amount of info about neurotoxins. Some scientists study this exclusively. It could take a lifetime just understanding fish toxins. Neurotoxins are a specific thing. I don't know why there aren't any studies specifically about Bb & neurotoxins. Bb has been studied quite alot.
I believe that roundworms, tapeworms & hookworms are visible... You would think that some of these surgeons would have seen them by now. I just don't know why they don't mention them. I went to a well known doctor who was a pathologist from Pakistan - I would have thought (in retrospect) - that he would have seen them.
I spent a bunch of money on him & it was never even mentioned... It makes me wonder. Not that I doubt the parasites exist - why haven't these professionals said anything?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Gigi, would you please post your email again? I sent you an email last week but I don't think I sent it to the right address.
Posts: 84 | From St. Louis, MO | Registered: Feb 2010
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GiGi
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posted
GJGilberg&aol.com
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Thanks, sent you an email!
Posts: 84 | From St. Louis, MO | Registered: Feb 2010
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lymeboy
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posted
How do you fit Binders in with a heavy combo of Abx? Can you even take the two concurrently?
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sparkle7
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Just my experience & I'm not a doctor... It's kind of tricky. I think that some drugs or herbs need to build up in the body to be effective. I can't really describe to people how to time it. For me - I dowse everything & I can figure out when my body is getting too toxic & take the binders.
It's kind of an intuitive process in my experience. I haven't taken antibiotics for a long time - so, I'm not sure what to say about that. I usually take herbs rather than drugs. You can stop & start herbs without too much of a bad outcome.
I guess that's an advantage of taking the herbs. I think there are many kinds of toxic reactions. Sometimes it effects the body with aches & pains or it could effect the brain, headaches, hormonal problems, lymph, tooth problems, pimples, hives, rashes, or intestinal/bowel issues, etc.
I think you have to observe what is happening & try to address it. Things like charcoal & clay can absorb the benefits from drugs, supplements, or herbs. I'm not sure about the other things that can be used. Charcoal & clay are very effective.
Chlorella is quite good but you have to be sure it's from a clean source - I think all Japanese chlorella is probably tainted by radiation, unfortunately. Eating an apple or using pectin can be helpful, as well as doing various kinds of enemas.
I don't know if psylium absorbs drugs & supplements. I usually try to take any kind of binder as far away from any active drug, herb or supplement as I can or at least 3 hours away.
Sometimes, I have stopped taking things just to detox & absorb toxins but I don't know if I would recommend this to people under a doctor's supervision.
Drinking water can be helpful with lemon or baking soda but I don't do it in excess. There are also drainage remedies & homeopathic remedies that some people find helpful.
Rebounding can help the lymph move & prevent stagnation. Dry brushing is good for the lymph, too. Even taking a walk around the block can help if you are able.
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