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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » LLMD wants me on Banderol/Samento for BIOFILM

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Author Topic: LLMD wants me on Banderol/Samento for BIOFILM
canefan17
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Says the evidence is there that it works.

Anyone do this or have good success using these Nutramedix products for biofilm?

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Rivendell
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Hi canefan17. Sounds like you have a very open-minded LLMD.

This is part of the Cowden protocal?

I hear that works very well for some people.

I haven't tried it.

Hopefully someone will say it worked for them.

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canefan17
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He's generally NOT open-minded. This is out there for him. But since he was able to read and review Eva Sapi's work (in vitro) he is on board.
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Marz
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I've been on samento/banderol for almost 6 months now and was doing well at the beginning. LLMD was enthused about Sapi's research as well.

Have had a flare of symptoms recently and just yesterday my PCP said a fading rash I have is bartonella.

So not sure if this means the lyme has been knocked out and the bart has surfaced.

I'm getting tired of trying to figure all of this out.

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Lala
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Hi cane,
samento/banderol should be good for lyme and bartonella too. It was recommended to me as well. It can be taken along with atb, but I have no direct experience yet.

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canefan17
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Thanks Lala,

Which one hits Bartonella? Banderol?

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sparkle7
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I'd like to see some actual evidence that these products are for biofilms. Not that I think they are bad but I've been looking & I have seen very little data about what the herb in Banderol actually is. The Samento is cat's claw.

I believe that the herb in Banderol is a variety of nutmeg. It's traditionally used for parasites.

http://horizon.documentation.ird.fr/exl-doc/pleins_textes/divers09-03/010030519.pdf

excerpts -

4 out of the 5 species used traditionally against leishmaniasis (80%) were active in vitro at 1 00 pmg/ml against Leishmania spp. pro- mastigotes: Conobea scoparioides, Hygrophila guianensis, Otoba novogranatensis and Otoba parvifiora.

--

Otoba novogranatensis Moldenke (Myristicaceae), syn. Dialyanthera otoba (Humb. & Bonpl.) Warb., Otobo. The genus Otoba comprises about ten species of shrubs to tall trees native to upland areas from Costa Rica to the western Amazon and Venezuela (Schultes and Raffauf, 1990; Gentry, 1993). Neither biological nor chemical data about this species could be found in the literature.

Otoba parvifiora (Markgr.) A.H. Gentry (Myristicaceae), syn. Dialyanthera parvifolia Markgr., Otobo. The Waorani Indians from the Ecuadorian Amazon crush the bark and the red resin and rub it on the skin for treating infections caused by mites and fungi (Schultes and Raffauf, 1 990). Farnesyl-homogentisic acid deriva tives hve been isolated from the seeds of the species (Ferreira et ai, 1995).

This is some info about Cat's Claw -

http://rainforest-database.com/plants/catclaw.htm

Main Actions (in order):
immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory, antimutagenic (cellular protector), anticancerous, antiulcerous

Main Uses:

- as an immune stimulant and an adjunctive therapy for cancer (to reduce side effects of chemotherapy and protect cells)
- as a bowel cleanser and anti-inflammatory for Crohn's, colitis, diverticulitis, irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), and other bowel problems
- as an anti-inflammatory for arthritis (all kinds) and muscle pains/strains/injuries
- as a general daily tonic (to tone, balance, and strengthen all body functions)
- for stomach ulcers and ulcerative colitis and as an ulcer preventative/ stomach and bowel protector)

Properties/Actions Documented by Research:
anti-inflammatory, antiulcerous, anticancerous, antidepressant, antileukemic, antimutagenic (cellular protector), antioxidant, antitumorous, antiviral, contraceptive, immune stimulant

Other Properties/Actions Documented by Traditional Use:
analgesic (pain-reliever), anticoagulant (blood thinner), antidysenteric, blood cleanser, detoxifier, diuretic, gastrotonic (tones, balances, strengthens the gastric system), hypocholesterolemic (lowers cholesterol), tonic (tones, balances, strengthens overall body functions), wound healer

-----

I don't mean to be negative but alot of these doctors do not know about herbal medicine. These products may help you but I would like to see some actual eidence that these products are for biofilms.

I also think that the Nutramedix herbal extracts are a bit overpriced. I'm not sure if they are standardized but they are easy for doctors who don't know too much about herbs to prescribe. They aren't bad products but I'm a bit skeptical of them.

I think alot of their properties are anti-parasite - so they seem to address that aspect of our illnesses. I haven't seen anything about biofilms, though.

I read in a couple of places that the herb in Banderol is endangered. I don't like that. I'm not sure if it's true - I hope not.

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canefan17
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sparkle,

Got any biofilm recommendations?

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sparkle7
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I haven't taken anything for it but some here were taking triphala.

fyi -

Evaluation of antimicrobial efficacy of herbal alternatives (Triphala and green tea polyphenols), MTAD, and 5% sodium hypochlorite against Enterococcus faecalis biofilm formed on tooth substrate: an in vitro study.
Prabhakar J, Senthilkumar M, Priya MS, Mahalakshmi K, Sehgal PK, Sukumaran VG.

Source
Department of Conservative Dentistry, Tagore Dental College and Hospital, Chennai, India. [email protected]
Abstract

INTRODUCTION:
The purpose of this study was to evaluate the antimicrobial efficacy of Triphala, green tea polyphenols (GTP), MTAD, and 5% sodium hypochlorite against E. faecalis biofilm formed on tooth substrate.

METHODS:
Extracted human teeth were biomechanically prepared, vertically sectioned, placed in the tissue culture wells exposing the root canal surface to E. faecalis to form a biofilm. At the end of the 3rd and 6th weeks all groups were treated for 10 minutes with the test solutions and control and were analyzed qualitatively and quantitatively.

RESULTS:
Qualitative assay with 3-week biofilm showed complete inhibition of bacterial growth with Triphala, MTAD and NaOCl, except GTP and saline, which showed presence of bacterial growth. In quantitative analysis, GTP- and saline-treated tooth samples have shown 1516 +/- 17.2 CFU/mL, 156.4 x 10(9) +/- 3.1 x 10(9) CFU/mL respectively. Qualitative assay with 6-week biofilm showed growth when treated with Triphala, GTP and MTAD whereas NaOCl has shown complete inhibition. All groups except NaOCl showed eight log reduction when compared to control when analyzed quantitatively.

CONCLUSIONS:
5% sodium hypochlorite showed maximum antibacterial activity against E. Faecalis biofilm formed on tooth substrate. Triphala, green tea polyphenols and MTAD showed statistically significant antibacterial activity. The use of herbal alternatives as a root canal irrigant might prove to be advantageous considering the several undesirable characteristics of NaOCl.

----

I believe that biofilms are unique depending on the components/pathogens. I may be wrong, though. I don't know if you need a specific thing depending on the type of biofilm.

I'll look into it further later. Some things I glanced over suggest it may be particular minerals....? Iron or magnesium? I'd have to study it further.

I'd probably try the triphala... I have tried the drugs for various things but I always seem to go back to the herbs.

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sparkle7
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ps - Sodium hypochlorite is bleach.

Endodontics

Sodium hypochlorite is now used in endodontics during root canal treatments. It is the medicament of choice due to its efficacy against pathogenic organisms and pulp digestion.

In previous times, Henry Drysdale Dakin's solution (0.5%) had been used. Its concentration for use in endodontics today varies from 0.5% to 5.25%. At low concentrations it will dissolve mainly necrotic tissue; whereas at higher concentrations tissue dissolution is better but it also dissolves vital tissue, a generally undesirable effect.

It has been shown that clinical effectiveness does not increase conclusively for concentrations higher than 1%.[9]

---

fyi -

Henry Drysdale Dakin's solution

Due to a request for a chemist by Alexis Carrel to the Rockefeller Institute, Dakin joined Carrel in 1916 at a temporary hospital in Compigne. There they developed the Carrel-Dakin method of wound treatments.

This consisted of intermittently irrigating the wound with Dakin's solution. This solution is a highly diluted antiseptic, consisting of sodium hypochlorite (0.4% to 0.5%) and boric acid (4%).

It is unstable and deteriorates within a few days, and must be made as needed. Since 1982 a modified, more stable Dakin's Solution has been commercially available from Century Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

----

Sounds a bit like MMS...(?)

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Brussels
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I would try Recthsregulat. One of the few supplements that I remain taking. So far more than 3 years without relapse. And still getting bitten....
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sparkle7
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Brussels (or anyone) - it's kind of expensive. Is there anything less money that's somewhat similar?
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