posted
A few months ago, I was diagnosed with Candida and started Nystatin. After two pills I was a complete mess, with chest pain, trouble breathing, abdominal pain, loss of appetite, terrible neuro/psych symptoms and felt severely toxic. I've taken it before, so it wasn't an allergic reaction.
A few days later I tried Pau d'arco (one drop) and got the same reaction.
A few days after that I tried 1/4 tablet of Nystatin 2x per day and got the same reaction.
I started losing a lot of weight, but my doctor wanted me to keep trying the antifungals. We tried 25 mg. of Diflucan (1/8 of a standard pill) every 2 days and again, the same reaction.
Ditto with Olive leaf extract 1/4 capsule.
The neuro/psych symptoms when I get fungal dieoff are extreme - head bent to one side, rocking, mania, stuttering, unable to walk, repeating words, thoughts of death, etc.
For three months now I have been trying to gain the 20 pounds I lost to no avail. No matter how many calories I put into myself, I cannot gain the weight back.
It feels to me that each time I take the antifungals I am doing damage to my gut. I am not absorbing nutrients properly and my body is wasting away.
Has this happened to anyone else? Can fungal dieoff cause bad gut damage like I've described?
I'm also wondering whether parasites or Bartonella could be involved.
I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this...
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
I have also lost a ton of weight but I never though to attribute it to a fungal issue (even though I have nearly constant oral thrush).
I thought my weight loss was due to babesia since it occurred simultaneously with a very high fever and some other babesia symptoms.
I also don't gain weight no matter how much I eat. I lost about 20lbs very quickly after a re-infection and probably another 10-15 since then. I was a normal weight to start with.
Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
I believe you have a major parasite infection. You sound just like me. All of your symptoms fit....the neuro stuff, weight loss, etc.
BTW - nystatin and diflucan hit parasites, so that is why I think you reacted imo.
Since I started parasite treatment 9+ weeks ago my symptoms are way way down. I am still passing parasites daily (this is still beyond shocking to me, but PROVES I am finally on the right path).
This is the most improvement I have seen in 16+ years. I've also started gaining weight:) I'm up 7 lbs:)
I wish I understood the importance of addressing parasites years ago. I believe it is a game changer (but sadly often overlooked).
God bless.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Energy to heal: whatever kills the fungi or candida will feel toxic. It is not necessarily the killer (specially if not chemical), but the die off (herx).
You need binders. I would feel like dying if I had no chlorella.
If you have fungi/ candida, they are in the gut. Even if the candida is on skin or sexual organs. They reproduce in the gut (it took me about 2 decades to believe this theory).
Only killing will not make you rid of candida. No cleaning, no smooth healing. If you cleanse, bind, your life can go back to normal.
Many experience GI problems after taking killers, as the GI is affected by these critters. I fought more candida than borrelia, for many more years. Borrelia went EASIER away than candida.
I can't take weight either, but my weight stabilzed after lyme was gone (and candida, at least for the last months). Lyme is dormant for more than 3 years, I went back to my normal weight (still very thin, like I always been).
GI tract is in order too.
I would try to find binders in your place. And enzymes, like Recthsregulat. Candida hates it and on top, it kills viruses. From all the hundreds of stuff I took during lyme, I remain taking Rechts and sometimes a bit of cardamon, that I find, helps to clean candida die off. All the rest, I don't take anymore.
Green tea too, but in my opinion, chlorella, MSM, charcoal, whatever helps the herx feeling are a MUST.
Life can go back to almost normal if you find the right binders in the RIGHT amount, taken a few times a day!
Good luck!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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Keebler - my liver is testing fine and I take lots of liver support (milk thistle/dandelion, etc.)
Brussels - I agree about the binders. I use chlorella before each meal, also taking bentonite clay daily and charcoal when needed. I use a combination of Heel and Pekana products for organ support/drainage for kidneys, liver, lymph, matrix, etc. I test to see which my body wants.
The big issue is that this does not just feel like "a really bad herx." I have had Lyme and co. for over 11 years and have been through many bad herxes. This does not feel like that.
When I take tiny amounts of these killers, It feels like I am having low-level seizures that last for 8-10 hours a day. There are very few bodily symptoms (pain, etc.) It's all in my brain - Uncontrollable rocking/repetitive movements, mania, endlessly repeating words, stuttering, inability to make decisions, wide-eyed stare, head bent to one side, thoughts/feelings of death.
First I was thinking that it was just dieoff toxins, but this seems extreme for that. Then I thought maybe a damaged gut/neurotransmitter problems? Someone else mentioned immune hypersensitivity reactions as a possible cause? A naturopath I know thought it had more to do with parasites, and that candida was there to dispose of what the parasites were leaving behind?
If anyone has ideas/experiences with any of these concepts, I'd love to hear about it.
All I know is that I am getting weaker and weaker and none of my doctors seem to be able to figure it out. I see a well-known and top-rated LLMD and naturopath and getting nowhere.
[ 08-03-2012, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Energy2Heal ]
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Bumping up to see if anyone has experience with testing for/treating immune hypersensitivity or neurotransmitter issues.
Or has any other ideas... I'm now wondering if Bartonella could be involved. I have had a bad case of it for 5 years now and recently switched treatments.
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annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
I could not tolerate nystatin . However, Grapefruit seed extract , fresh garlic , allcin, or oil of oregano capsules effectively kill fungus!! They also kill a wide variety of pathogens as well . My advice : try GSE and oil of oregano and start low.
I had a chest infection and ain that ABX would not take away . I think it was fungal , and oil of oregano did help . Solaray oil of oregano is easy to tolerate . I can take 3 capsules daily .
Some brands are even more potent , so start with one capsule . I think the oil of oregano also helps a degree with my breathing . Is it a cure ? No , but I think it is better than nystatin by far .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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annxyzz
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posted
It is hard to imagine fungii causing mania and rocking and your other symptoms, but you do need to treat fungus if it is a problem .
A psychiatrist or neurologist might be helpful in determining brain issues if you have insurance and can access a doctor .
If the nystatin is making you feel weird , I would say stop it . There are plenty of ways to kill fungii .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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posted
This is so overwhelming and frustrating that we have to research and fight so hard for individual treatment. Is it the Lyme, is it candida, is it parasites, is it the meds...? My LLMD uncovered that a magnesium deficiency was what was causing my body tremors and psychiatric issues for weeks. Added to my long list of supplementation is now Magnesium Glycinate & B6.
Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by Energy2Heal: The big issue is that this does not just feel like "a really bad herx."
When I take tiny amounts of these killers, It feels like I am having low-level seizures that last for 8-10 hours a day. There are very few bodily symptoms (pain, etc.) It's all in my brain - Uncontrollable rocking/repetitive movements, mania, endlessly repeating words, stuttering, inability to make decisions, wide-eyed stare, head bent to one side, thoughts/feelings of death.
When fungus dies, the metals that were bound in it are released and can cause symptoms.
But you say that you're taking binders, so I would think they would reduce symptoms of metals moving around in your body.
Ask Gigi about this...she knows about the metals from die-off, and may have some suggestions for you.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Are you gluten-free? If not, gluten could be causing problems with nutrient absorption.
[ 08-07-2012, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Sorry for late response!
Vacation time here.
When I react strongly with something, I think about: - allergic reaction / sensitivity reaction - die off reaction (it CAN BE EXTREME). - poisoning (from the die off, from the plant or chemical).
At least, these are the only 3 things that come to my mind now.
It sounds to me that Nystatin can cause all 3 problems above.
But if you react similarly to all, it sounds to me that we are talking about die off reaction.
People think herxes are minor problems. TO me, herxes are the biggest problems I had. No herxes, life was easy. With herxes, life was hell.
As simple as that. Herxes sent me to hospital, paralized. I thought I was going to stop breathing once. I could get episodes of night terrors ( to me transformed into day terrors as I slept day and night), and I could turn suicidal.
My heart beat went up like crazy, I had all types of sweats, cold sweats, hot sweats, high blood pressure, extreme chills, extreme air hunger, etc.
All the extreme problems I had during lyme, almost all, came from toxins, not from pathogens.
Candida have very bad toxins. They are VERY toxic. THe die off reactions I got to funghi and candida were only worse when I dealt with babesia. Even lyme for me, was 'easy' when compared to babesia herxes and candida / fungal herxes.
Reactions for me were not ALWAYS extreme, but they were very often AWFUL. Once I learned energy testing, I started loooking desperately for cleansers and testing them until I felt back to normal. I took cleansers about 5- 10 times a day in my worst days (which were most days when I fought lyme).
The proof to me that these were herxes was that after the COCKTAIL of multiple cleansers, I felt so much better, as though I was not even sick. Until the next intake of killers. Then the ballet re-started.
Don't underestimate a herx. A herx can kill, literally. It can kill by poisoning you, or you can just kill yourself in a mad act.
These bugs have evolved with us, and many are much older than us. They know that the more they are poisonous, the less is our ability to eliminate them. All bodily systems get charged with poisoning from herxes and we simply stop killing them.
So just concentrate your efforts in the CLEANSING, not the killing. It is not that difficult to find good killers, but to find the exact cocktail of cleansers, in the right amount you need every day, and keep changing these killers as your body keeps changing what it kills, well, this is like art.
If you do energy testing, concentrate on tuning your cleansers! It will pay you back.
MSM was a big help for me, chlorella in huge amounts (like hundred pills in a day,not exxagerating), tapping, teas, magic trio mix (heel-sanum), rechtsregulat, zeolites, charcoal, and many types of plants and tinctures can help.
Homeopathics tuned for each person, each organ, are excellent (like finding what exactly will help you lymph, your kidney, your liver) and tuning these substances every week pays back more than any wonder killer in the market.
Good luck, sorry I didn't answer your email yet, I will!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Annxyzz - It's not just from Nystatin - all antifungal Rx or broad-spectrum herbs cause this. So I can't take garlic, oil of oregano, etc. because it causes the same problem.
Carol in PA - Yes I am taking plenty of binders.
Keebler - Yes I am gluten-free and have been extremely careful about it. Even though tests show no gluten problems and if I try gluten I see no reaction.
Brussels - Thanks for posting all the info on cleansers, especially the list you provided is helpful (for me and I'm sure others too). I do energy test myself, but the problem is when I herx or get this reaction my testing goes haywire and I can't get consistent answers.
The homeopathic cleansers that most often test well for me are Pekana - Radinex, Renelix, Mucan and Heel - Lymphomyosot, Solidago comp, and Gastro-Cleanse.
I had a Naturopath inform me that Gastro-Cleanse is actually a liver cleanser.
[ 08-10-2012, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Energy2Heal ]
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
For those who are interested - I received new information yesterday that seems to have uncovered the problem with the extreme neuro/psych/seizure-like reactions to die-off.
I received my Metametrix GI Function results. My LLMD immediately noticed that my Fecal SigA was extremely low.
Secretory igA (SigA) is the primary antibody response at the mucosal level. It protects the gut and the body from pathogens, allergens and toxins.
The way he described it to me, was that SigA lines the intestine and attaches to these things, deactivates them and allows them to exit the body via the gut.
Without sufficient SigA, the toxins from dieoff are causing my body to create masses of other immunoglobulins to protect itself. Basically my immune system is going crazy and causing the seizure-like symptoms.
Cause of low SigA include lowered immunity, EBV, poor nutrition, stress, dysbiosis.
I also tested positive for parasites. I'm wondering if that could be the cause of all of this, since the SigA problem can be caused by poor nutrition. I'm eating like crazy but have lost tons of weight and feel like I'm wasting away.
I know candida is also involved somehow, but it's hard to know which came first. I'm going to start the 6-week Rx parasite protocol. Recommendations to heal the gut include Glutamine, Colostrum, Beta Glucan, EFAs, Immunoglobulins, less stress.
That last one is tough... this is the most stressful experience I've ever had. Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Molybdenum can help with candida die-off & chemical sensitivities.
Biotin keeps the candida from reverting to spore, thus forcing it to stay in the vulnerable/easy to kill form.
Yucca Root helps to bind ammonia, which is a significant neurotoxin that Lyme and many other pathogens give off when they die - ammonia in the brain can cause lots of neuro. symptoms (seizures included).
Marshmallow Root, Slippery Elm Bark, Fenugreek, Okra, etc. are good for helping to heal the mucosal lining of the gut.
Watch out for digestive enzymes with harsh HCl in it - if you have leaky gut or weakened mucosal lining in the gut, the HCl can irritate the sensitive tissues and cause more problems.
I like an enzyme product called Acid Soothe because it contains digestive enzymes that won't aggravate a stomach/duodenal ulcer, and contains herbs and zinc carnosine that helps heal the gut.
Since the herbals & rx antifungals cause problems, maybe homeopathic candida would work for you? Consult a Naturopath for help with products and dosing of homeopathy for this purpose.
Also, Nux V. homeopathic remedy is very helpful for me when I am having problems from die-off...it supports liver detox mechanisms in a way that nothing else I've tried can do.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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