posted
Well here i am again with another question. I am on prednisone, plaquenil and methotrexate for UCTD. I believe that I have lyme and have an appointment with a LLdoc soon. My question is I am having lower kidney pain and I am wondering if anyone has experienced this? What to do?
Posts: 65 | From Just Maine | Registered: Jul 2012
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
You're sure it's kidney pain?
What color is your urine? Drink alot of water. Do you have any of the urine dipstix that test for blood?
Here is a picture showing the location of the kidneys.
Also, check your temperature, as it may be elevated if you have a kidney infection.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I wondered if this could be a side-effect of one of your Rx. Looking at just one of those,
Are you supplementing with Folic Acid? Looks like you should. Just a few things to consider: -------------
The most common adverse effects include: ulcerative stomatitis, low white blood cell count and thus predisposition to infection, nausea, abdominal pain, fatigue, fever, dizziness, acute pneumonitis . . . .
. . . Methotrexate has, like all "cell toxic" substances, a broad array of possible adverse effects. . . .
. . . methotrexate neurotoxicity -- which may cause seizures . . . .
. . . the inhibition of enzymes involved in purine metabolism, leading to accumulation of adenosine, or the inhibition of T cell activation and suppression of intercellular adhesion molecule expression by T cells.[11]
In these cases, patients should supplement their diets with folate. . . . .
. . . ompeting with folic acid (a B vitamin essential for cell growth and division) thereby causing a deficiency of folic acid within the cells. Without folic acid, the cells die.
Methotrexate, however, also affects healthy cells within the body, such as in the kidney, thereby causing side effects. . . .
. . . Kidney Response
Methotrexate is excreted from the body through the kidneys. High doses of methotrexate can be toxic to the kidneys. As the methotrexate breaks down in the body, there are pieces that are not soluble in the acidic urine.
These pieces can precipitate (meaning to fall out of solution) and accumulate, causing the toxicity to the kidney and also slowing down the excretion of the methotrexate from the body.
If left untreated, this renal dysfunction can lead to kidney damage, renal failure and even death. . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Just in case you might be taking this, it's best to avoid Ibuprofen.
Ibuprofen constricts blood flow. This can pose problems for kidneys.
National Kidney & Urulogic Diseases Information Clearinghouse (NKUDIC)
Analgesic Nephropathy (Painkillers and the Kidneys)
Excerpts:
. . . Analgesic use has been associated with two different forms of kidney damage: acute renal failure and a type of chronic kidney disease called analgesic nephropathy. . . .
. . . Some patient case reports have attributed incidents of sudden-onset acute kidney failure to the use of over-the-counter painkillers, including aspirin, ibuprofen, and naproxen sodium. . . .
. . . A second form of kidney damage, called analgesic nephropathy, can result from taking painkillers every day for several years. . . . .
. . . Ibuprofen may also increase the risk of chronic kidney damage, . . .
The popular pain reliever ibuprofen can cause kidney failure in people with mild kidney disease, according to a new study.
A three-year study on the drug was reported today in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine. . . .
. . . gave participants above-normal doses of 800 milligrams of ibuprofen three times a day - the equivalent of 12 ibuprofen tablets - for up to 11 days.
After eight days, three women developed kidney failure, which reversed when ibuprofen was discontinued. The remaining nine women, who received ibuprofen for 11 days, showed changes in kidney function but did not develop kidney failure.
After recovering, the three women were given 400 milligrams of ibuprofen three times a day, equivalent to normal doses of the drug.
Two of the three again developed kidney failure but recovered when the ibuprofen was stopped.
Ibuprofen relieves pain by interfering with the body's production of prostaglandin, a substance involved in inflammation. But at the same time, the drug constricts blood flow.
Normally, the change poses little risk if used for a short period.
But for those whose blood flow to the kidneys is already reduced by kidney, heart or liver damage, flu, or aging, ibuprofen could lead to acute kidney failure. . . .
- Full article at link above.
---------------
Acetaminophen blocks the liver from being able to produce and manage glutathione, so that has risks to the liver.
Other things to consider to help ease pain (if they would go along with your current Rx):
posted
I would always complain of kidney pain too. At least the pain was in that area.
I heard from a couple of doctors that the kidneys themselves don't have pain receptors, or aren't innervated, or something like that.
The ureters, which drain urine from the kidneys to the bladder are innervated. Stones passing through the ureters cause some of the worst pain you can feel.
Anyway, it was hard for me to believe the doctors, who didn't think it was the kidneys. But it made me think that maybe it was deep muscle pain, or possibly the adrenals, which sit on top of the kidneys and get trashed in TBD's.
I actually went to a kidney specialist because I was having a lot of pain in the kidney area, and having cloudy urine quite often.
The cloudy urine was phosphates (I think) because it would clear up when I poured vinegar into the toilet. My 24 hour urine test and a few others came back mostly normal (at least normal enough that he didn't want to see me again for a 2 months to discuss the labs).
I have taken antibiotics now for 4 years and would have this kidney pain from time to time throughout treatment. After treating Bartonella (unsuccessfully) for about a year, my remaining symptoms seemed to boil down to Babs: Heart, kidneys, air hunger, gasping for air at bedtime, slight dizziness, some night sweats.
I am now FINALLY addressing Babesia and taking azithromycin and malarone. After getting over the air hunger for the first 2 weeks, it is working wonders for me! I am only about a month into Babs treatment, but so far, the kidney pain hasn't re-surfaced!!!
Posts: 27 | From Central IL | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I rarely taken ibuprofen anymore since the kidney doc said it was the most nephrotoxic chemical on the planet!! I had no idea!
When I first got sick in 2003, I was popping 800mg two times a day to function. YIKES
Posts: 27 | From Central IL | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Tell me more about gasping for air please. I have had a sleep study done and am now on a CPAP at night. Prior to this every time I laid down my throat felt closed up and I felt that I was choking. How does this relate to Lyme?
Posts: 65 | From Just Maine | Registered: Jul 2012
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nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
First thing I see is STEROIDS on your list..the worst thing for LYME...
IF YOU CAN<<<<STOP<<<<<<ASAP I"M not a doctor , only a person who is much sicker than I would have been , if the SPECIALISTS ID and RA didn't give me steroid shots in 2010
A urologist can put a scope in and look for infection..some times other ,usual ways don't work...I \
IN 08 I before diagnoses, I had UTI symptom's...
They couldn't pin it down with blood or x-ray.. but with scope It proved I was right ,,I looked like chopped hamburger in there,,
I will say that since I've been ill that area hurts off and on depending on which ABX I'm on /or not//and how well I stay hydrated... When I'm really bad I don't get what I need in..
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
Air hunger happens in different ways,,, while I was looking for answers ...the docs always wanted to blame Cpap stuff for everything,,, Problem was ,,when I was on certain ABX's these breathing and most other issues would get better,,
Now after 6 years ,plus, and not getting diagnosed until a year ago..some of those issues may be from extended damage from TBD's..And recent weight gain..
I hope with right treatment a lot of this can get reversed...
I've actually been to ill to get the sleep study done again......recently wanted from Pulm. doc
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
For me, the gasping would come and go. Most of the time, it was accompanied by what I can only describe as an adrenaline feeling in my sternum/stomach area (thymus gland??) When it started happening more frequently around last Christmas, I searched this site for that exact symptom. BABESIA came up!
Anyway, it seemed to always happen just as I was falling asleep. After sitting up like a bolt of lightning and gasping for air, I would always ask my husband if I was snoring. The answer was always NO.
I've had air hunger in the past too, but there was one day last winter when I was driving to work, and I had to unbuckle and unsnap everything after struggling for 2-3 minutes to catch my breath.
This "air hunger" was one of the first symptoms I had back in 2003 about 2 months after I was inappropriately treated. I suppose even if I did get a full 6 weeks of doxy, I still would have Babesia, right?? I mean, since it's a protozoa / parasite, straight antibiotics wouldn't help?
I also did a lot of sighing and deep breaths.
I'm being treated right now with Malarone/Zithromax, and I think it's helping alot. Still have a little air hunger from time to time.
Posts: 27 | From Central IL | Registered: Jul 2008
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