posted
I'm noticing that the more parasite drugs I take, the more Borrelia comes out and is susceptable to rifing, tinidazole, etc. This is good because it is killing the hiding bugs, but bad because it has put be back in the miserable fight with Borrelia with herxes and depression and all. Anyone else notice this?
This supports my general hypothesis that these parasite drugs are more hitting our biofilms and maybe even cyst busting, and less hitting actual gut worms. I mean yea, some gut worms get nailed and die and we see them in the toilet, but the lion's share of what we are experiencing is the parasite drugs effects on the Lyme colonies.
Thoughts?
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Amen! I was thinking the same thing! I started the parasitic drugs about 6 weeks ago, first Parastroy and then Ivermectin, and now salt/C. I am now having Lyme symptoms again that I haven't felt in a few years. I have mostly been dealing with Bart, I had Babs and Lyme pretty much taken care of and then when I started the Parastroy, it brought the Babs back out major, so now I am fighting Babs, Bart and LYME symptoms again.
We just can't win!!!
Posts: 7 | From GEORGIA | Registered: May 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
AnnaMarie, maybe we can win by knocking back the Borrelia again now that they are exposed. I mean, it seems like they never really left if parasite drugs can bring them out? Weird indeed. Is it better to fight them or let them lie dormant???
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Killing parasites releases heavy metals. There is a huge overlap between lyme and heavy metal symptoms. Heavy metals are actually mentioned as a differential diagnosis in the ILADS guidelines last I looked. That is verification that there is a very strong overlap in symptoms.
My point is that you may not be dealing with lyme but with heavy metals that are released as a result of dieing parasites.
Are you taking a binder for heavy metals? Consider giving that a try to see if symptoms improve.
The other interesting phenomena that I've seen in the 5+ years that I've been in treatment is that when one infection starts to get under control another often comes on stronger. Perhaps it is utilizing new resources?
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Terry, yes, I've detoxed heavy metals in many ways over the years and you are right. However, in this particular instance I am sure it is borrelia that is resurfacing.
And also I agree on another infection coming out to play when one is put down. I guess the question is, how long does this crazy rotation of infections last, and when are we done !! ??
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
There is a symbiotic relationship between the two. Dr. K. says kill the parasites first and then it is much easier to kill the bacteria which the parasites feed on.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
No kidding, I've been hard at Lyme, but feel like Bartonella has resurfaced last few months- back on treatment for that again soon.
I just wanted to say, I have/had a major parasite problem and it is strongly believed I don't have Babesia,
nor do I have a metal issue- have done hair tests and porphyrin - never an amalgam, no vaccination in 40 years-
and yet parasites- Tindamax hits it the best for me- a cyst buster.
So yes, maybe they pocket together in the gloop- I've been treating Lyme and parasites together for awhile now,
and did herbals for parasites before Lyme dx.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
Ditto for me. I did Hulda Clark Parasite a few weeks back. Now my floaters are worse, my knees hurt (I've never had knee pain) and other symptoms have flared.
Weird.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
yeah I think this all makes sense. The biofilms are being hit, the bugs that cause the biofilm are dying, and the other nasty stuff that was embedded in the biolfilm is being released!
Maybe good to keep Bicillin and Tindamax on board?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
CD - yes, I've noticed Tini all of a sudden works again now that I'm on the parasite drugs.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
I occassionally question if lyme disease IS actually a parasite infection .
My reaction to ivermectin feels like the first time I took doxy for lyme .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
ann, I think Lyme definitely also has babesia, bart, and borrelia. But I do think the key, or the sludge / glue / nasty mess that holds it all together, may be parasites, or parasite-like creatures, or parasite DNA (as Dr. K has said), or something similar. The parasite puzzle piece may be the "cryptonite" or "secret" to unraveling the whole circus and booting them out of town.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
I have seen this as well. The parasites do make the biofilm, but they also "farm" borrelia. It's all together, and working on the parasites does release a lot of other stuff to deal with. Seemingly a necessary part of the process.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dr K has been saying this for a while and that is why I started Mimosa tincture. I have been on it for two months and still muscle test very weak (meaning I have lots of parasites) for parasites. So I am starting with a zapper this week but may add ivermectin very soon.
I was making good progress and think the parasites have caused me to stall.
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Rivendell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19922
posted
I've been feeling terrible since doing a parasite cleeanse. Also on different meds. And terrible insomnia. Heart palpataions have returned. Terrible state of mind. Brain fog. bad fatigue.The morning is the worst.
I've been doing Kroegger's Wormwood combination. It says to take 2 capsules three times per day.
This gave me painful diarrhea. Had to stop.
I'm taking one capsule twice per day and will build to two capsules twice per day.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Hopefully Gael or Tammy will pop in here to discuss.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
This biofilm theory is fascinating. It sounds like the cyst form of bb is waking up in people because they are attacking parasites. That makes we wonder if we ever really get rid of lyme.
It makes sense that Dr. K says to work on parasites first. I guess this process just takes time.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
A biofilm community can be formed by a single bacterial species, but in nature biofilms almost always consist of rich mixtures of many species of bacteria, as well as fungi, algae, yeasts, protozoa, other microorganisms, debris and corrosion products.
Over 500 bacterial species have been identified in typical dental plaque biofilms. Biofilms are held together by sugary molecular strands, collectively termed "extracellular polymeric substances" or "EPS."
The cells produce EPS and are held together by these strands, allowing them to develop complex three-dimensional, resilient, attached communities. Biofilms can be as thin as a few cell layers or many inches thick, depending on environmental conditions.
----
There's alot of images of biofilms on google (Image).
"This patented SpiroFlo device sets up a spiraling flow that travels around the boundary layer of a pipe � the area of the pipe that is often missed by even the best chemical treatments (and, of course, where biofilm loves to grow).
With water alone (as in no chemical treatment), the SpiroFlo device took the biofilm from �too many to count� to less than 100 parts per million. "
--
If this is the case, maybe exercise is a good thing in regards to breaking up the biofilm?
--
Rivendell- it takes a long time to treat parasites... I don't know how long you have been doing it but I have been working on them for 2-3 years now. It's really tough. Hang in there.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I too am doing Parastroy and feeling joint swelling and the like. They say that parasites love the synovial fluid so this is somewhat common. I could not agree more with the others that have gone before us, namely Selma, Gael and Six... we have to treat these things so that our body does not fall sick again... Back to the 17 nails in the foot that Dr. H talks about, you have to get them all out for the foot to heal. This is very paraphrased but he was a godsend to me.
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
parasite HERBS gave me similar "awful" herxes and reactions, but the drugs so far have minimal herxing and just feeling better, maybe the herbs irritate them and the drugs totally kill them so no reaction? Not sure.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Is anyone using Mimosa Pudica that Dr K said was stronger than the meds? Seemed like everyone was on it and then you didn't hear about it anymore.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I did mimosa for a while and will use it again. It was very strong and helpful, but its effects wore off after about 3 weeks and then it did nothing.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
Personal Note : I am now taking iver/ praziquantel combo and having INTENSE(!) herxing . I will never be persuaded that parasites are NOT part of this disease . And I thought the idea of the parasite relationship was iffy to start . Also , I am passing what looks like hundreds or thousands of seeds with praiquantel and woth pyrantel . If I stop those , the "seeds" ( possible parasite eggs ?) disappear . The die off is no fun - I feel so all over achey and almost like I have fever ( no real fever ) .
I do not know if this will ever make me feel better , but I can say the parasite meds are killing some organism in my mind .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
Sparkle than you again for all you share - wonderful info as usual . You are a great researcher .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
I wish someone else here would try the iver / prazi combo and share their results. I am using vet version from Tractor supply and take it every other day . ( Equimax )
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Annxyzz - I have tried that combo but it was really half hearted attempt. I was nervous about taking those big pills so I didn't take a very high dosage. I now am trying it again and taking 3000 mgs at a time. I can't say that I have a big herx. I usually feel better the next day and then EXTREME fatigue about 24 hours from the time I took it. It's the same with Ivermectin.
I will probably do another 3000 Biltricide tomorrow and then move onto ivermectin and Albenza. I think that Albenza is really killing something for me. I only had about 10 pills and will be getting more from Canada soon. Again EXTREME fatigue afterwards.
I am also going to ask my doc for SSKI iodide which Dr. K. suggests. The final round would be Alinia which I have never tried. I have some expired Alinia. I was too scared to take it when I originally got it.
Yes - I am using binders.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
From Annyzz "I can say the parasite meds are killing some organism in my mind" --- really, this is cool? You mean it is clearing up brain stuff? GREAT.
I wonder if it's the praziquantel (don't know what this is) because I don't think Iver crosses the BBB? My doc said it stays in the gut.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
pyrantel supposedly stays in the gut but it is the best one for clearing my head - It REALLY gets into my head -- so not sure the validity of assessing these drugs by whether they supposedly get absorbed, cross bbb, etc.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks annxyzz. The brain & the gut are related... Some researchers call the gut the 2nd brain.
I did the Equimax for a month on & off about a year ago. I think I'm kind of sensitive to drugs. I usually don't do them for long courses. I think pulsing for me is better - the pulsing means doing the drugs for a bit on & off - then, going to herbs for a longer time mostly on.
I did the ivermectin for a while (a few weeks on & off). Got "no" for Albendazole. Now, it's "yes" for Parastroy... Maybe I'll dowse the pyrantel? I bought it in separate formulas now so I could take the ivermectin & pyrantel separately.
I did about a month or 2 of the Raintree A-P. It made my ribs ache. I started getting a "no" so I went to the ivermectin for a few weeks. Now it's Parastroy... Go figure?
I know alot of people may think I'm nuts but I seem to be doing OK with all of this on my own. I'm not any worse after all of these years of being ill. I did actually improve greately at one point. It all came back when I stopped.
I can't say that all the doctors I went to seemed to know more than my dowsing rod with all the tests & money spent...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic