tickled1
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I ended up with a lactobacillus acidophilus overgrowth. It was recommended that I now take D-lactate free probiotics.
I am scared now that whichever probiotics I take that I will end up with an overgrowth but I am about to do another course of abx so will obviously need probiotics.
I've read that probiotics can be dangerous for immunocompromised individuals. I wonder if that is what's going on with me. Has anyone else here run into this?
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philly78
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How was this determined? Were you recently on abx as well?
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tickled1
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Metametrix testing. I did a course a couple of mos. ago for H. Pylori which was also found by Metametrix.
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Scroll down to the part about effect of excessive d-lactate on mitochondria.
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canefan17
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I wish I had an overgrowth of healthy bacteria
But in all seriousness - I'm not sure what can be done. Obviously back off the probies (or the acidophilus) and the body tends to find a balance.
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tickled1
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It's not healthy if it's an overgrowth though. Haven't taken acidophilus in awhile. I have done abx since the metametrix testing so maybe I don't have that anymore. I certainly have something GI going on though.
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tickled1
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So... what to do about it?? Do you have the neurological symptoms?
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tickled1
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I have the EXACT neuro symptoms! I just printed out the 20 page article above and am going to present it to my doctor.
In the meantime I guess I'll take the PravPac he prescribed for the presumed undertreated H. Pylori.
Geez, makes you wonder if it was this all along.
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canefan17
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posted
Mastic Gum has helped many with H Pylori Also 16+ Manuka Honey
Look on Amazon
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tickled1
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Been kinda using it on and off last few days.
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tickled1
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Maybe I'm not the only one. Maybe others on here that have neuro symptoms and are taking probiotics have this too but attribute the neuro symptoms to Lyme and Co.
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TerryK
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"D-lactate elevations indicate an overgrowth of the Lactobacillus acidophilus species of bacteria. This is a common probiotic given, and works quite well in normal amounts. In some cases, however, this bacteria can overgrow and produce too much of its metabolic byproduct, D-lactate. D-lactate elevations in the blood (lactic acidosis) can cause your patient to feel brain fog, cause headaches, or lead to minor neurological symptoms. The lactobacillus sp. of bacteria thrive on sugar and simple carbohydrates, so when D-lactate is high, recommend a diet low in sugar while working to restore balance. You might also supplement with Bifidobacter sp. probiotics."
I just want to get this message accross that not everything is Candida and the very things that we all may be taking to correct Candida can cause problems as well (lactobacillus). I learned the hard way. Especially if not correcting diet as well.
I have to say though that elimination of sugar and limiting carbs is essential in managing both lactobacillus overgrowth AND Candida.
Before getting dx with Lyme I was brought to hospital by ambulance due to what they told me was hyperventilation syndrome. Problem with that dx was that I knew I wasn't hyperventilating. The symptoms were tingling in extemities/face and hands clawing up and electric shock sensations and basicly shutting down.
If anyone watches "Deadliest Catch" and saw what happened to the greenhorn Chris Scambler this is what happened/happens to me:
The thing is, what happens with hyperventilation syndrome is the blood Ph/gases are altered due to the hyperventilation so when I went to ER they assumed what was happening to me was my fault (as usual) caused by panic attack leading to hyperventilation. Of course they didn't believe me when I told them that was not the case.
What I know now and it has taken me 5 years to figure out is that yes indeed my blood Ph is off when these episodes hit but is not induced by hyperventilation but due to imbalance caused by by-products of dysbiosis-or high d-lactate levels inducing d-lactate acidosis.
What I'm not positive about is how this all came into play long before Lyme dx and long before abx and probiotics were in the picture for me. Something else that was occuring at time of episode when I was brought to hospital was that I was dehydrated and also had mastitis. Maybe by-product of bacteria that causes mastitis has similar by-prodcut in system. Will have to look that up.
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tickled1
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Now I'm really confused. According to this I don't know if I'm alkaline or acidic. Maybe alkaline since my bicarbonate levels on blood work are always elevated.
tickled1
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Lymetoo,
I may have given you the wrong test info above. I believe the Organix Profile is what identified the lactobacillus overgrowth. I got confused b/c I got all their testing done but the most recent link I posted says it's the Organix Profile. Sorry about that.
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What probiotics were you on that led up to this? Were you taking Lactobacillus Acidophilus by itself or in combination with other strains?
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tickled1
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I've taken Therelac, Truflora, VSL #3. All at normal dosages too, nothing crazy.
That being said I was not strict about diet as far as limiting sugar and carbs but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has taken probiotics that is not vigilant with proper diet.
Maybe my case is unique but I highly doubt it.
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tickled1
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This has great info on D lactate acidosis (I had all these symptoms by the way and was dx w/d lactate acidosis):
tickled1
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If you read the symptom list in the first link those were my symptoms.
I found out I had the overgrowth through testing by Metametrix. It showed I had elevated D lactate levels. This is something that usually happens to gastric bypass patients but obviously can happen to us too if we get out of balance.
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posted
Tickled, I am confused. Can you tell me all the tests that you took with metametrix? How did you and your doctor decide which tests were necessary?
Thanks
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posted
Oh! I forgot to mention it. There is a blog by Jordan and Steve called scdlifestyle.com. Steve was diagnosed with lactobacillus acidophilus overgrowth.
He cured his problem by going on the Specific carbohydrate diet. It is very strict. No carbs etc. It has helped many, many people.
Might be helpful for you.
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tickled1
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I had the Triad Profile, Organix, and GI function profile.
The Triad Profile is what identified the D-Lactate acidoisis.
This was $1000 worth of testing that I was lucky enough to get for free only b/c a family member of mine who is in the medical field attended a seminar in which everyone who attended received a free trial kit so that they could then market it to their patients.
He was going to do it on himself but then decided I needed it more. So this all happened by chance but am so glad I did it.
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tickled1
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Thanks soccermama! I've actually been trying to learn more about the SCD diet and GAPS diet. I will have no choice now since I was dx w/C. Diff today as a result of taking Clindamycin for a dental infection. It never ends.
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lpkayak
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so tickled-are you better now?? i have never heard of this and i have been around a long time
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tickled1
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If you mean am I better from the D lactate acidosis it is hard to say b/c the Metametrix testing also identified H. Pylori.
I did 2 rounds of treatment for that and then ended up with a dental infection and did a round of Clindamycin for that and as a result of taking the Clindamycin I have now developed C Diff and just started Flagyl for that so I've had too much going on to be able to tell things apart.
I think though that maybe all these abx have hit the lactobacillus overgrowth to some degree b/c I haven't had the severe D Lactate acidosis symptoms such as ataxia in some time.
I know it is not a well known thing kayak that is why I am trying to bring attention to it. I automatically blamed all my neuro symptoms on Lyme but now I don't believe that to be the case since the symptoms for D lacate acidosis are so specific and those were my symptoms to a T and I tested positive for it.
I have a feeling that there are probably more people on here that have this but are also assuming it's the Lyme like I did.
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Catgirl
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This blows (so sorry Tickled). I also have high "good bacteria" and hpylori (metametrix). Got the test back, but haven't seen my doc yet. I get worse after I eat, but in my case I think it's protomyxzoa). And it comes on within 45 minutes after my meal, (which I also take probiotics and compounded nystatin--has acidophilus in it).
In my case, though, if I eat meat, nuts, or oil, my symptoms get worse: herx & babs symptoms, and pain. I'm lowering my pbx today. Thanks for posting this Tickled. I hope you feel better soon.
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tickled1
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Sorry to hear you are going through this but relieved to hear I'm not alone.
I think a lot of people just are not getting this testing done and most doctors aren't familiar with it.
I know I wouldn't have gotten it done if I had to pay out of pocket but the information I got from it is invaluable.
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Catgirl
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Terry's link above (metametrix) indicates that this is linked to small intestine resection. Did you at some point have something like that done as well, or did you just take a bunch of probiotics?
I didn't have the exact same test as you, I just did a stool test (metametrix) for GI tract, parasites, etc. My test showed that I had high lactobacillus sp and bifidobacter sp, and high h-pylori.
I wonder how many people think they have candida, and actually have this? I've been battling yeast for over a year now. I've only just recently gotten a handle on it. But I've been taking about 400 billion cultures a day, plus another 5,000,000 of nystatin.
I'm thrilled that I can eat fruit now, and some other grains too, but concerned after what's happened to you.
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Catgirl
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I forgot to mention that I thought it was interesting on the link below (which I pulled from above), that one of the patients got better after stopping medium chain tryglicerides (it said attack may have been precipitated by the use of MCTs). Coconut oil?
Also another, diet that provided starch as source of carbohydrates improved the patient. I crave carbs and have had my share of coconut oil.
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tickled1
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Nope, no stomach surgery. Just took probiotics and not massive amounts either. Wasn't great about eliminating sugar but many aren't.
May I ask what your yeast symptoms are/were? How were you dx w/yeast? Did yeast show up on the Metametrix testing.
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tickled1
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Interestingly I didn't use any coconut oil but a couple of mos. ago I tried an "Amy's dairy free, soy free, gluten free Mac and Cheez" and my stomach felt so much better that I checked the ingredients and saw it had coconut oil. I assumed it was the coconut oil that helped since I've read it can be good for GI and I think has anti-bacterial/viral/parasitic activity.
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Catgirl
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Wow. This is really scary.
My LLMD said I had systemic yeast, but it never showed up on my blood test (they are not accurate anyway). If I ate a few berries, or even any starch that wasn't quinoa, my head, ears, and feet would itch. Vaginal pain & itching too.
I was on diflucan for a really long time too, which can cause a resistant strain of yeast (think I had this). They never tested for it, but once I went off of it, I started to get better.
By the time I took the Metametrix test (which I primarily took for parasites), I blew it and took a bunch of probiotics because I didn't want the yeast to come back. So of course my lacto and bifido were high, and no yeast.
Maybe it was just the starch of mac and cheeze that made you feel better?
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