randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
Ann and I are disagreeing again. I am on week two of cowden. So far ok.
She said she believes it's ineffective and herbs and tinctures don't work as well as abx.
I say she's wrong. I cannot take abx and have had diverticulitis and c diff and plenty of candida. So I have no choice. My doctor and an md speaks highly of cowden and burner and recmds both
Do you honestly know of anyone who has been helped by either burner or cowden? There's plenty of stuff on the web but who knows what to trust
posted
I know that Dr. H. uses Cowden tinctures for some of his patients... so I'm thinking it couldn't be all bad?
-------------------- I appreciate all your replies. If it takes me a while to respond, it is either because I'm too sick or because I am unable to log in. From European servers, Lymenet is very frequently inaccessible for days at a time ... Posts: 235 | From Europe | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
My new LLMD (I've only been with him for a month) uses both Buhner and Cowden herbs and says he's successfully treated people.
He also says that it can take a long time (12 to 18 months) before you see/feel the benefits.
-------------------- I appreciate all your replies. If it takes me a while to respond, it is either because I'm too sick or because I am unable to log in. From European servers, Lymenet is very frequently inaccessible for days at a time ... Posts: 235 | From Europe | Registered: Jul 2012
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dbpei
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33574
posted
Read "Out of the Woods" by Katina Makris. She is a naturopath from NH who was stricken with lyme and it practically shut down her whole body. It went to her nervous system and had her bed ridden for quite a while. She was sick for 5 years before finding out she had LD.
She used 'antibiotic herbs' to get well along with lots of alternative treatment such as rife machine and lots of rest. She is inspirational and I would recommend you read this book. She just spoke in our area. Here is the news segment in Providence area with a short interview.
posted
I made the switch from abx,s to herbs - used both Cowden and Byron White.
After 10 years of off and on abx.s and not full recovery I made the switch.
I would not say I am at 100%, but stay at about 75% with the help of ther herbs.
Posts: 151 | From North East | Registered: May 2011
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
Cowden is not a scam. If you are not sure, take a dose of samento and cumanda to see if you herx!! I used to think that herbs were not strong enough but we have done both abx and herbs, and the herbs are what took us to the next level.
My kids did 2 years of abx with DR. J. They improved but were not healed. My boys still had major ADHD and focus issues. The herbs took that away. They took samento/cumanda/burber and GSE. Now we sometimes also take the Dr. K lyme cocktail when we are reinfected (as we have been many times this year!), and it works a bit faster than the nutramedix herbs.
My husband did 3 years of abx and was not healed. The Dr. K lyme cocktail brought him to the next level.
You do have to start slowly with the herbs, as they can cause a huge reaction to some.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- dbpei,
Thanks for "Out of the Woods" detail. I had mistakenly omitted it from the ND thread so I just added that now, here (giving you credit for the find, of course):
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Cowden protocol is a very well thought-out approach. Very respected, indeed.
Still, we can get tripped up trying to be our own doctors. Now, I know full well that many here have no choice. However, when at all possible,
Find a LLMD or LL ND who KNOWS the Cowden protocol and has experience with it, knows what it can and can't do - and how else to work with all your needs.
** Seldom is there any one single approach that works for everyone all the time.**
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links, . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
No, I don't think it's a scam, those are some big words.
Herbs are effective, yes, for many.
The severity of infections, your body's capability to detox, all come into play,
quite obviously there is no one size fits all.
My daughter has been on antibiotics for a long while- she and I react very differently to lyme and co.
Haven't been getting more improvements with her on antibx, so started Cowden. I like the continuous detox aspect of it,
and for sure I can see the Banderol and Samento 'hitting'
I am doing a more Burrascano type protocol/recovery. I also incorporporate herbs.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Randibear, [edited to change entire post]
Thank you so very much for the your consideration regarding the heading AND the post text. Nice change.
I do hope you find the success you so deserve. I hope you can find a LL ND near you with experience with this protocol and others that may help. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- TuTu,
Change happens. Nice. I edited my comments above to reflect the change. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
thanks hon for the suggestion. Have To consider the Source also. Here's a woman who's going to have her spleen taken out with no definite diagnosis....well duh....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Well, thanks for having an friendly attitude in how you received the suggestion.
I suppose journalism training has stuck with me with the way I see things, but, also:
Years ago, when I knew I was very ill but had no clue what, nor did doctors, so they and even I though it was just my mind . . . I took a medical hypnosis course to try to think myself well.
Well, that that was no match against lyme & co, yet it did still have a powerfully positive effect on me in that I learned it's best to never use negative words when we can avoid them.
Our brains do not see "not" - they don't hear "not" so they go by the action or tangible word and just lock onto that.
Command "Do not spill your tea" and the brain, literally, goes to "spill tea"
Instead, if you say as you carry your tea across the room:
"I walk with style and grace" you have a better chance of success -- and, if not, at least a laugh.
This can be a fun way to approach some tasks. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i was an editor for a regional employee newsletter that had a Circulation of 6600. So I know all about editing and plenty about criticism!!!
I try to remember it but sometimes I just cant. It's a wonder that I can still get my point across let alone form a coherent thought.
Lyme has certainly taken a toll. My somewhat normal iq Has dropped to that of a 10 year old on a bad day!!!
Oh and I ordered the book
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
One of the things I've noticed is that many people not only seem to be treating themselves, but they seem to be bouncing all over the place with different treatments. I don't know how one could possibly expect to get good results without consistent quality treatment. For example, the Cowden Protocol is a very specific treatment regime that spans 6 months and uses specific herbs taken in a specific order at specific times. However, a lot of people seem to bounce between this protocol and other things; add or subtract things, take different dosages (other than recommended), etc. How can we judge if the Cowden Protocol or any other treatment is working under these conditions?
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
they sent me a package of what to take when and I follow that exactly. That's what I like about it. You do A and b and c. No fuss no mess.
Or as our english friends say "easy peasy.".
I don't know enough to mix protocols but my llmd uses Cowden.
We'll see how it works
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Randibear,
A few weeks ago when you inquired about this, there were many links posted for you from Cowden's site and others.
There have been other thread here, too. If you want to know more, you can study those links. That will help put it in perspective.
I doubt you will find all you want from just this thread asking whoever may see it at this time. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by randibear: they sent me a package of what to take when and I follow that exactly.
Me too! Without doing the protocol exactly as designed, or at least as modified by a knowledgeable LLMD or ND, then you really haven't done the Cowden Protocol!
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i'm doing as told and my doctor supports cowden somi have his support
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Glad you are working with a doctor who knows this protocol, then.
I suggested these links because you seemed shaken by your friend's questioning and I thought you wanted some more detail to be sure. Sounded like you were revisiting your decision based upon her statement.
Or maybe you were wanting to know how to state a response?
Cowden LINKS here, gathered for you a few weeks ago -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
Yeah it's kind of hard to respond to her lately. I'm really tired of all these peoPle who think that Lyme can be cured by a Couple weeks of abx or thAt what they don't know isn't worth knowing. Kind of well my doctor says this and then well My doctor says this.
After awhile you just shake your head or change the subject
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- "It's a puzzle"
can be said with a surprising combinations of vocal inflections and creative use of the pregnant pause. Works very well in a variety of situations. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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