Pocono Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5939
posted
I'm new to the thyroid rollercoaster/merry-go-round. I've been doing research in an attempt to help myself and came across this.
I have had severe muscle wasting/weakness and never correlated it to thyroid. Thought I would post this in case it may be an issue for others. I've read where the thyroid tests are not a very good indication and also many do MUCH better on Armour Thyroid as opposed to Synthroid.
Again it's all new to me so I'm by far no expert. Just trying to help myself and others.
http://ajpcell.physiology.org/content/290/2/C650.full Enhanced levels of hormones and cytokines, in particular glucocorticoids and TNF-α, are likely to be major initiators of protein breakdown. Interestingly, thyroid hormones can cause muscle wasting due to both excess and deficiency by yet-unknown mechanisms
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I was taking synthroid for a year before I was diagnosed with ALS. I've had significant muscles loss in my shoulders, neck, chest and hips in the following years.
I stopped synthroid after a year but just started on tirosint. The muscle loss is progressing anyway. I always wondering if these things were related.
-------------------- Dxd ALS 3/2010 Dxd cllinical Lyme 4/2010 Positive for Protomyxzoa but absolutely nothing else in Igenex Posts: 417 | From central ct | Registered: Apr 2010
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AuntyLynn
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Member # 35938
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Pocono Lyme:
I am diagnosed hyperthyroid. I have managed to get basic tests about every year or two, and it isn't slowing up. (Have not had health insurance in 5+ years!)
The one visit I had with an endocrinologist, he said I've likely been hyper all my life, and when my estrogen levels dropped in peri-meno, it started presenting. Apparently estrogen has a protective effect against thyroxin.
There are inexpensive meds for hyper, but the American medical community pushes radioactive iodine ablation BIG TIME, and I am definitely NOT comfortable with this treatment! It is really difficult to control "dose" with RAI, and people say if you don't like the results, "tough luck" - you're stuck with it.
Most RAI patients go HYPO post treatment, and need thyroid supplements for life!
BTW, other countries use RAI as a "last resort" for stubborn cases only! Of course RAI testing and treatment costs about $20K, whereas the cost of treating with thyroid inhibiting drugs is mainly in the routine blood work. "Go figure."
I have never heard of using Armour or synthroid for Hyper. They are, however, used for Hashimoto's disease, which is a thyroid that fluctuates, between high and low.
There is a wholistic approach to treat hyper - taking L-Carnitine, which blocks thyroxin damage to the liver and heart, but does nothing to limit weight loss and muscle wasting. Dose is allegedly 2-3 gms per day.
Author and thyroid patient Elaine Moore has some great books on thyroid disease. She also has some very good online blogs. I would do a search for her material, as she is very informative.
Another lay author opines that hyperthyroidism is likely caused by a copper deficiency; which might explain why far more women than men suffer this disease. Seafood, especially oysters and crab/lobster are good sources of copper.
Also, it seems apparent that heavy metals poisoning may be implicated.
Let me know what you learn? Thanks!
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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Pocono Lyme
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Member # 5939
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AuntyLynn,
I understood that to read that muscle wasting could be caused by too much or too little thyroid hormone that our own bodies produce.
I added the synthroid comment as a separate issue. I didn't clarify that. Sorry. Hoping my adrenal/thyroid treatment will also clarify my brain. lol
I was dx with hypo.
It's got to be really tough to manage hyper and Hashi's.
2young, I didn't know what Tyrosint was and when I looked it up it said it's only T4. Again, I'm just learning and from what I've read that's a mistake many people(doctors) make.
I don't know your labs etc. and wouldn't be able to advise anyone but I think it is definitely worth you researching.
The site that seems to have the best information is STTM (Stop The Thyroid Madness)
I just went there to find something for you and this was right there on the initial page. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ T4-only Next I would check the status of your adrenals. Mine I'm finding out is a huge factor. Something I also came across.
Low Cortisol �Allergies getting worse �Body ache - all over �Clumsy �Confusion �Continuing hypothyroid symptoms with a high Free T3 �Dark circles under eyes �Diarrhea �Dizziness �Emotionally hyper sensitive �Fatigue �Feeling better after 6 pm �Feeling of doom or panic �Flu like symptoms �Headache �Heart palpitations �Highly defensive �Hypoglycemia �IBS symptoms �Inability to focus �Inability to handle stress �Inability to interact with others �Inflammation that doesn't go away �Irritable �Jittery or hyper feeling �Low back pain - in kidney/adrenal area �Motion sickness �Nausea �Rage or sudden angry outburst �Overreacting �Paranoid �No patience �Shaky hands, internal feeling of shakiness �Weakness - general or localized
High Cortisol �Bruising easily �Fluid retention �High blood pressure �Moon-shaped face �Obesity �Severe fatigue �Spare Tire - increased belly fat �Weak muscles and deterioration �Increased fat in the back of the neck and upper back area (hump)
Symptoms of Low Aldosterone �Low blood pressure �Low blood volume �High pulse �Heart palpitations �Dizziness �Lightheadedness when you stand �Fatigue �Craving salt �Frequent urination �Getting up many times during the night to urinate �Sweating �Excessive Thirst
Symptoms of High Aldosterone �High blood pressure �Low potassium �Weakness (caused by low potassium) �Tingling (caused by low potassium) �Muscle spasms (caused by low potassium) �Frequent urination �Water aversion
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I initially was diagnosed with Graves' in 1998
(alternating between being Hyper and Hypo).
I, due to my lack of knowledge, let them ablate
(RAI) my thyroid. So, now I am permanently hypo and within the last three months, discovered I
now have Hashi's as well.
You can still have high antibodies without a thyroid.
The interesting part is, quite a few of the
extreme joint pain issues I was having were
"cured" when I increased my thyroid (I take
natural dessicated) dosage.
One of the causes for Hashi's is not getting enough thyroid.
I had been on the same dose for too long (many years) which can cause your antibodies to kick in.
Lyme causes the whole HPA to get out of whack and it is sometimes difficult to balance during
treatment. My adrenals got hit hard in the beginning.
I know NOW that my original issues were most likely triggered by the Lyme and Co's.
PoconoLyme, glad you found the
stopthethyroidmadness site helpful!
(And yes, adrenals should always be addressed FIRST... but most doc's don't )
Posts: 396 | From EAPennsylvania | Registered: Dec 2007
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
I posted about LDN under 2Young2Die's topic about thyroid. If you have auto immune disease, it will halt it. I am normal now.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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poppy
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Member # 5355
posted
A lot of people have low or high thyroid functioning and do not have muscle wasting.
My sister in law had the radioactive ablation done for what was diagnosed to be thyroid storm. She has to take thyroid pills the rest of her life now and had her liver damaged from the radiation...that particular process is no longer used.
My suspicion is that it might have been her thyroid flaming out, high on the way to a crash, which does happen, and would not require an ablation at all.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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You shouldn't if you have any type of yeast issues
And 2) because of my adrenal issues, it made me feel REALLY bad -- I crashed severely... something about it uses the same receptors as the adrenals...
@poppy "that particular process is no longer used." It is... it just depends on the endo (and whether or not the patient educates themselves to question them.)
I have NO faith or trust in endocrinologists....
But, as an aside... I have not had muscle wasting just fibromyalgia-type pains and the severe joint pain (that went away with the dosage increase).
Posts: 396 | From EAPennsylvania | Registered: Dec 2007
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Pocono Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5939
posted
fourwinds, Thank you for all of your help. Yes the STTM site is quite helpful. You've certainly been through a lot with thyroid issues.
Interesting that your pain went away with increased dose of thyroid. I just got started on HC and my long standing neck and shoulder pain isn't there today. Because I said that, wait until tomorrow.
I found a good descriptive term for it. Coat hanger pain.
Poppy, I agree that a lot of thyroid patients don't have muscle wasting but I find it interesting that weak muscles and wasting is a symptom of high cortisol.
I'm hoping to come across something to explain and help 2young's symptoms etc. and learning at the same time. Lyme and company is bad enough let alone adding in the collateral damage.
I'm wondering since 2young is replacing T4, if by chance it can make her cortisol high.
From http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/cortisolzava.html Too much cortisol, caused by stressors, over a prolonged period of time, results in excessive breakdown of all structural tissues of the body including muscle, bone, skin and brain
Too much cortisol, again caused by the adrenal glands� response to excessive stressors, causes the tissues to no longer respond to the thyroid hormone signal. It creates a condition of thyroid resistance, meaning that thyroid hormone levels can be normal, but tissues fail to respond as efficiently to the thyroid signal. This resistance to the thyroid hormone signal caused by high cortisol is not just restricted to thyroid hormone but applies to all other hormones such as insulin, progesterone, estrogens, testosterone, and even cortisol itself
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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