-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I have not had ONE muscle testing doctor ever come to the same conclusion in years. NOT ONE.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- A bio-feedback machine is not the same as muscle testing. I'm with seek-help about muscle testing not being the sole tool used. My experience with that has been hit or miss.
Still, this uses a machine. I'm not sure if you are describing an actual biofeedback machine or something else. Just a regular biofeedback machine will NOT help point to any cause.
However, there are similar machines that can.
It depends on the practitioner - and ALL the things they take into account along with that: history; symptoms; clinical presentation; etc.
Such a run on that kind of equipment might point to the answer - or not. As with blood or PCR tests, negatives are not to be trusted.
With this kind of electro-dermal testing, some positives may need to be refined with follow up diagnostics.
Bottom line: is this practitioner ILADS-educated and fully lyme literate? If so, this can be just one more tool that could help.
If not, and if positive, it might still be a good clue. Follow up with a LL doctor, LLMD or LL ND who is ILADS-educated and keeps up with their conferences and articles, etc.
My experience with a machine that may be similiar to what you describe is that it did, indeed, point to "tick fever" -- the closest thing to a lyme reading in that computer. It had not been programmed with another tick-borne infection other than "tick-fever" --
My positive for that did line up, then, in theory, to the positive lyme from Igenex.
Can you post a link for the exact model of machine you are talking about?
---------------
You also ask: Should this method be supported?
Adding qualitification: 1. if it is of proper quality, and 2. operated by a LL practitioner
A. Yes. Indeed. Some such machines as these made in Germany have exceptional capability as PART of a diagnostic process. They are not bio-feedback, though.
Or
B. No, if either of those replies are "no"
Listen, dogs can now be trained to detect cancer. I think it's important to keep an open mind about all the ways possible to detect illness. Much depends on the quality of machines, tests and expertise of the doctors.
That said, there are crooks out there who misrepresent themselves. That's why we go through our check-lists for finding a good LL doctor, whether in allopathic or naturopathic arenas.
And keeping in mind the entire diagnositc & assessment process.
Some of these machines in the excellent category might be seen as sort of a "reverse rife machine"
Rather than emit the frequency of a particular microbe, it can detect presence of such. -
[ 02-03-2013, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
WHY you need an ILADS "educated" or "minded" Lyme Literate doctor (whether MD or ND, or both) - starting with assessment / evaluation. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Wondering about your clinical presentation, I can't look over all your previous thread but see that you posted a thread asking about
"Sensitivity to noise"
THAT is a classic sign of lyme. Classic. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Duplicate thread. Also see over in General:
posted at the same time, just a different forum. (a puzzle).
Bringing one over from there:
desertwind replies:
There is no such thing as a "Bio feedback Dr.". You could have someone who is a doctor of sorts using a biofeedback machine but that is a play on words.
From my experience as a Ph.D. Clinical Psych. practitioner the answer is a definative NO!
As a doctor of clinical psychology I do use biofeedback in my practice but it DOES NOT and CANNOT diagnose lyme. Biofeedback works on brain waves/ patterns -
I fail to see how this could diagnose lyme. As a professional I would never make that sort of claim. Does he/she have any references/studies to back up these claims? Be careful...
(posted by desertwind) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
This dr has diagnosed someone I know with Lyme. He does not use a machine. He has a belt he calls a resonator. He does muscle testing.
This is concerning to me. I was wondering if I should say something to this person.
Posts: 415 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2012
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
IMHO, the person diagnosed by this resonator/muscle testing should seek a second opinion from a Lyme-Literate MD or ND.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Don't put all the emphasize on that one method. Still, I'm with Razzle in that they need to be assured this practitioner is
an ILADS educated LLMD or LL ND.
Some may not be good at this, but some are quite skilled at muscle testing and IF - IF - he happens to be one of those (or maybe just keeping tract to see if it may be an indicator) . . .
well, IF he is ALSO doing other measures consisent with a good diagnostic exam -- and IF he is also ILADS educated and truly LL -- then just having this exercise included as part of his workup may be just fine.
If this is it, with no other diagnositic measures such as oral history & symptom lists, time lines; observations of clinical markers . . . then I would be inclined to question.
The key is that we may not have as much information about what ELSE he does in his research of any case.
I suggest sharing this concern with your acquaintance / friend. Let them read this thread, so they are aware of how thorough an assessment should be.
Links above should be of help. You can give your friend those. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- For others to track,
tailfeathers' post from the duplicate thread:
Biofeedback is different than Neurofeedback-I wonder which one you're referring to because years ago before I was diagnosed I did
Neurofeedback and prior to the treatment I was giving a 'Brain Map', or a QEEG which showed the 'classic' slow-wave activity when I tried to do cognitive challenges.
These practitioners were very well-known and their diagnosis was 'CFS' - at that time their assessments helped a lot of people get disability, I believe that has changed now because the state decided that psychologists were not qualified to 'diagnose'.
So in a nutshell, getting a 'Brain Map' or QEEG was very helpful for me in terms of 'physical evidence', helpful because you could 'see' what your brain was or was not doing.
The treatments that followed were great, though of course never got me better because I went for many years very very ill, ie: no bugs were bieng killed and the cycle of replication continued over years makingme sicker and sicker. Hope this helps, PM me for more info if you'd like!
(posted by tailfeathers) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- tailfeathers' detail about QEEG "Brain Mapping" is right on. And it does show that neurofeedback can, indeed, show changes consistent with lyme.
Sure did for me. Three different QEEGs, three different doctors (one an audiologist / autism doctor), one a Ph.D. autism doctor, and one a ND.
Each were very similar and did help, diagnostically - the biofeedback measured through brain waves (neurofeedbac) was far better than any regular EEG I ever had done.
I'm glad tailfeathers reminded me.
Muscle testing may not use a machine but if done well, it can be a form of biofeedback, even neurofeedback. If the person is trained, there can be some very good detail to come from this as part of a work-up.
Long before any lab tests with blood or body tissue, long before electrical machines in medical centers, a wide range of diagnositic tools were used. Some of those good & effective, some not.
It is just very hard to know unless we are the ones there. Others in the area lyme support groups are likely to have some idea about this particular practitioner. The support group collective experience pool can be very valuable. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- As with tailfeathers, I also did the neurofeedback training. That did not work for me because I was unable to actually treat lyme and other tick-borne infections. No LLMD access, I though that maybe just the neurofeedback would work. It did not.
The doctor, all along, expressed his doubts that it would be enough. But it was all I could do and stuck with it. It was a waste of time and money, alone. WITH other treatment that would have addressed infection, chances of neurofeedback training might have be better. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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