Topic: Mammagrams, Thermographies, Breast Cancer and Fibrocystic Question
Judie
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posted
Hi Everyone,
After I discovered a bullseye rash on my arm awhile back, I noticed bad pain in my armpit whenever I pressed my arm to my side.
The pain then extended to under my breast. All this was new with lyme.
My ND told me to do a breast thermography because its safer than a mammogram and shows more info.
It came back that I have fybrocystic stuff going on.
Is this related to the Lyme???? I swear it started at the same time.
I saw my PCP yesterday and had her check my armpit. She said I have a swollen lymphnode there.
I told her I had a breast thermography and she got really angry. She said those people are charlatans and miss breast cancer all the time.
She really wants me to get a mammogram. She assured me it was low radiation.
I have methylation issues and am scared that a mammogram will cause more problems.
I'm also scared that the radiation will cause breast cancer. I have a friend who got one every year for like 15 years, then cancer came on really fast.
I'm also scared it will hurt. My body is sooooooo tender and in pain all the time. I have really bad urticaria.
My body is really sensitive to stuff.
Does thermography really miss stuff?
Do mammograms miss stuff too?
Can anyone help me sort this out???
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Keebler
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- I had the same experience as you with a thermography that showed "hot spots" went to my gyn for a mammography and was scolded exactly as you were.
The mammogram turned out fine and they had said that had it not, an ultrasound would have been done next. That was probably a dozen years ago.
I probably had 2 to 3 "perfect" mammograms after that and then, since being homebound, stopped several years ago.
In my case, an acupuncturist had suggested full body scan so she could best know which places needed more attention.
The thermography was most helpful for me regarding my neck, though.
And it was correct of the acupuncturist to refer me to my PCP to request a mammogram. And correct to have gotten one.
I was not too concerned, certainly not worrying but the scolding doctor made it out as if I were a ignorant nut case. I was just doing what seemed wise, getting a better test to be sure.
It could have turned out differently. The doctors who "scold" against this are not exactly correct, either. It is not a definitive test, nevertheless, it has its place.
In fact, in some reputable breast centers, they use thermomgraphy as one tool in their kit. It's advancing in some centers. -
[ 02-14-2013, 02:30 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- Now, after all that, in YOUR case, even if the thermogram might be seeing hot spots that could have other causes . . . this is what has me advising you to get SOME KIND OF IMAGING with a breast expert . . . you say:
"saw PCP yesterday and had her check my armpit. She said I have a swollen lymphnode there." (end quote)
Now, there could be many reasons why but the very best imaging you can have done will HELP identify specific detail.
You might search, though, to see WHICH imaging test would be best for you. There are different ways to do mammograms now - and other tests such as ultrasound or a special MRI. Your insurance policy needs to be considered, too.
A swollen node could be for many reasons. Still, it's just good thing to use all the tools at your - and your doctor's - availability.
Tools are there to help us learn more when we really need to do that. -
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Judie
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Oh gosh Keebler. You nailed it! I felt like I was being scolded.
Did the mammogram hurt? Was it fast?
I have MCS and am very much paying the price for going to the PCPs office. I was so "out of it" because of the cleaning products when I left the place. Still dazed today....
I wish I didn't have to go there. This doc is really good at doing the referrals. That's the only reason I keep seeing this doc.
The PCP also wants me to get an ultrasound of the lump/lymphnode area.
I love acupuncture too and that's really interesting about the full body scan. That seems like really helpful information.
Thanks for telling me your experience.
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Keebler
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- So, by your questions:
Did the mammogram hurt? Was it fast?
It seems that you are instructed to get BOTH mammogram AND untrasound? If so, that is best, I think. As each has strengths and each has weakness. Together, the best picture.
Still, you can ask about the mammogram machines they use and learn more about your options there but I do think that you need that on the best equiptment available to your city.
MCS
Can you call ahead and make "MCS arrangements" of some kind?
Be mindful of deodorant sprays that are in the dressing booths. As patients are instructed to not apply after showering at home, it's there in the booth after they finish and get dressed.
And, as you also have MCS, you know that's just the start to the list. Maybe they are MCS-aware so that you don't have to go through all this.
Take care. Hugs to you, as well. Wish I could be funny - but consider yourself having just been told a very funny LOL story, eh? -
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Keebler
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- You asked:
"Did the mammogram hurt? Was it fast?"
That will differ, of course, from body to body. Indeed, though, it did hurt me (everything does) and it was not all that fast but within reason - in perspective - well, that's my forte, putting it all into perspective. It was not as bad as the time I hit the diving board !
I do think there should be better ways. And there may be now. But I'm out of all that so have not kept up with the technology, though I've seen certain articles in passing.
You might see what Mercola's site has to say. But don't just be scared away, rather just shifted to the best diagnostic methods.
I hope others here will have specifics for you. -
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Keebler
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- If your PCP's office uses cleaning chemicals that clobber one of their patients known to have MCS, you need a new PCP.
The cleaning supplies and soaps should have been changed over as soon as they discovered that even one of their patients has MCS. This is very serious, indeed, and if they don't take that seriously enough, just how good a doctor are they?
(Still, imaging should be done even if that question has you wondering about their professionalism.)
[ 02-13-2013, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Judie
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"...one of their patients known to have MCS, you need a new PCP."
Unfortunately, I'm in a small town. This is really the best I've found. I've been looking for 3 years.
I talked to the nurse about the scent problem. They changed hand sanitizers to scented ones recently and it even bothers the nurse!
She mentioned something to the doc too, so at least the doc is being mindful to just wear gloves.
The PCP office definitely has it's pluses and minuses.
Actually, this is the doc that discovered I had Lyme. I had the freakin' rash for a week and no one knew what it was (even my ND thought it was a spider bite).
I went to this doc for a physical therapy referral and just happened to show her the rash awhile back. She immediately knew what it was an erythema migrans rash and had a picture in her office.
Believe it or not, they HAVE a fragrance free policy in the building, but it's the chemicals with no scent that sometimes get me the worst.
I'm still looking for a gynecologist. One had a lit-scented candle the size of a person's head in the waiting room.
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Keebler
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- Some of those MCS hospital links also focus on chemicals, not just scented stuff.
Yeah, I know that when I say some things, I'm in PollyAnnaVille, in the neighborhood of wishful thinking.
Might a MCS support group around have some doctors' names for you? A speakers' bureau or advocate who can present your case.
Do you have any "grounded" friends or family members who could take some of those links from the search, print and gather key articles to present to your doctor and others who work there?
If you have someone else "present" for you, be sure you know their temperment very well first. They must be the ultimate in composure as those with MCS are already so unfairly categorized.
This stuff is not good for anyone, really.
I know what you mean about sometimes, it's the stiff that is not scented that can also clobber.
Avoid rubbing alcohol, too, as its petroleum based and for those with MCS / porphyria, it can cause a set back.
If you might be diagnosed with Porphyria, perhaps your doctor would take this more seriously? Have you had any workups for that? -
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Keebler
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Many good links here -
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Judie
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Thanks Keebler. I've wondered about porphyria. I have another doc I can ask about it.
No, there are no MCS support groups here. My friend who also has MCS tried to start one and it just didn't work for various reasons.
I wish I had an advocate, unfortunately, I need to be my own. I don't have any friends or family members who can step in to do that.
I bring the whole list of things to talk about before I go into the doc because I know I won't remember once I'm hit by people's personal care products, etc....
I rarely leave the house too. If it wasn't for these new pains that started a year ago that acupuncture isn't fixing on its own, I would avoid that office building like the plague.
I'm just going to pace myself and take breaks for several days between appointments at the building.
Catgirl
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Judie, I'm with you, I don't want or need any radiation. I've had fibrocystic breasts for over 30 years (yes, I think it's lyme related). Once I started getting annual mammograms, cysts actually grew (one of them was quite large). So after the last biopsy, I decided no more mammograms. But I did do monthly self exams to monitor the cysts.
Since most breast cancer is found by self examination (not mammograms), this is the way to go, IMO, and then get a mammogram if something odd shows up. No doc or technician is going to offer up this info though. They will however tell you that mammograms can detect stuff you can't feel yet (true, but you risk getting cancer from the radiation).
Thermography is another tool to help identify if something is going on. But so are ultrasound, MRIs and self exam.
Any painful lymph node should be looked at. The mammograms give the clearest picture of what is going on. I think as long as you don't keep getting them, you will be fine. Try to relax in the meantime (music, meditation).
Tell the technician going in that she only gets two or three pictures tops and that's it, that you don't want any more radiation. Tell her this before she takes pictures, and she will do her best to get a good one. She or the radiologist may want more. I would pass on this, as this is when my cysts grew. You have to put your foot down.
Also, make sure they give you a thyroid guard. They tried to tell me it wasn't necessary, and handed me some info indicating such. Anyone can argue anything with whatever they choose to provide you with as evidence (doesn't mean anything).
Someone posted last year about the benefits of zinc for women with fibrocystic breasts. Maybe if you do a search you can find it. I tried it (upped my zinc) and it worked. Far less cysts.
Also, most breast cancers are not painful (good news for you!).
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tick battler
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Judie, I don't have much time to post and haven't read all above but I went through stage II breast cancer recently and avoided getting any mammograms the entire time. I agreed to get MRI's instead and I think they are more accurate and safer. You do have to stand your ground...I had several battles with nurses in the mammo center when I refused to get one and instead insisted on an ultrasound before I had the MRI.
Also - can you find someone who does muscle testing? I knew my lump was cancerous before I had it taken out. That way, I avoided a biopsy, which I believe can potentially spread cancerous cells (the surgeon disagrees).
I had a thermogram done which did not show anything but then the MRI did show two very small spots, so just be wary - I don't think anything is totally accurate. Next time I will go to a different thermographer - there is a more sensitive method than just getting photos taken.
My lumps did become painful when they got big enough and particularly after I was exposed to a lot of chlorine bleach (had to shock our well several times due to parasites in our water so our entire house smelled of chlorine) and paint from having our house painted during this time.
Hope this helps - try to find a surgeon with a holistic bent as mine has - she was OK with writing scripts for MRI's rather than mammos. Read what Dr. Mercola says about mammograms - if you have one now that may be OK but I wouldn't have one unless you really need it. It does sound like you should have something done along with thermography just to be sure.
Hang in there...
tickbattler
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Catgirl
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Wow, that's great advice Tick battler (energy testing)! I did the MRIs too. Unfortunately, though the gadolinium never left my body. Maybe you can do it without the dye?
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posted
i have the painful fibrocystic breast tissue and was clobbered with the pain out of no where in 2009. It was at this time i had my first mammogram. I just had my last one in May 2012 and lucked out. It was with the latest technology, 3d imaging. I had no idea i was getting this, just luck of the draw.
They take many more pictures (around 75 in my case) than a normal mammo and can see much more than a normal mammo.
If you do choose to move forward and get the mammogram, maybe you can find a place that has this technology. It may help and reduce any other procedures you may have needed in addition.
Hugs!
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tick battler
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catgirl - Sorry to hear about the gladolinium - is it causing you problems? How do you know it's still there? There are ways to get it out of the body - my practitioner can make remedies imprinted with frequencies to remove chemicals, drugs, radiation, etc. She can make a remedy tailored to the specific thing.
tickbattler
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Judie
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Wow, so much great information here.
Winni - That's a really great point about the different scans. I'm DEFINITELY going to ask more questions about the kind of scan for the mammogram.
Catgirl - I like your idea about just getting one for now. I think my PCP mentioned just wanting to get a "baseline" reading. I was so out of it during the office visit, so maybe she wasn't thinking of me doing it every year.
Tick Battler - Thank you so much for your kind words. Yes, I definitely like a more holistic approach. If it didn't hurt so bad under my arm, I don't even think I'd consider a mammogram. I wish I had more energy to "stand my ground." I'm so tired these days. I'm only at about 20% of what I was at a year ago and I had chronic fatigue back then too. Ugh....
Keebler - Thank you so much for your understanding. It's so nice to hear your comments and to have my MCS taken seriously. I venture through most my days feeling like I live on another planet from the people around me.
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Tammy N.
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Judie - we have another thing in common..... I too have breast issues and under arm issues (on left side).
Back in 2008 I noticed a sizeable lump under my left armpit. I went to my gyno, then to 2 breast specialists. No one could give me an answer about my underarm. During this quest, both breast specialists wanted to do different surgeries in each breast. I went to a third breast specialist (who is a personal friend) and he gave me reassurances that I did not need any surgery. I had mammos, MRIs and Ultrasounds done.
Then 2 years ago I went for a thermography....which showed heat in my left breast. That doc suggested I go for an ultrasound (which showed good results). The facility that did it was ****ed off I wasn't doing a mammo. I too was scolded. I felt very unwelcomed and couldn't wait to get out of there. (I wasn't able to go to my normal facility because they would not even do an ultrasound without a mammo!)
I went for a 4 month follow-up with thermography which showed more heat. Now I was getting really scared. So I then had a mammo and ultrasound. Again it showed it was ok.
This is all scary because no imaging is ever 100%.... and they can contradict each other.
My mother's sister has had breast cancer several times.... from ages 40 to 70. One breast was removed at 40, and the other was removed in her young 70s. She is now 77 and doing great, God bless her.
Because of this risk factor and because I have dense fibrous breasts, I have had many mammos throughout the years. I think I started in my 20s if I remember correctly. This totally freaks me out now. (What the hell were these docs thinking!!???!)
This lump under my left armpit seems to have gotten larger and the left breast is slightly larger also. My LLMD thinks it is Lyme related and wants me to do more lymph work.
I just texted my breast specialist the other day expressing my concern about the cumulative radiation exposure. His reply was that he still thought I should go for yearly mammos (my last one was 16 months ago). He said there is very little radiation, and you get as much radiation walking outside for 18 mins in the summer due to lack of ozone layer. I'm not saying I agree with him, but this is what he has said.
My ins will not cover MRI without first having a suspicious mammo and/or ultrasound. So I am not sure what to do. I feel like I need to have my situation checked out but I don't know what path to take. If I hadn't already had so many mammos, I would do it without thinking too much because the technology now uses much less radiation than years ago.
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Carol in PA
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For fibrocystic breasts, look into using systemic enzymes.
You can google for wobenzym, fibrocystic breast, to find information. Wobenzym is a blend of enzymes, and more research has been done in Europe than in the U.S.
Systemic enzymes reduce inflammation and reduce fibrin in the bloodstream. I found that I have less pain and fewer headaches when I take it daily.
Wobenzym� is very effective therapy for the management of fibrocystic breast disease, especially since it does not interfere with already upset hormonal balance that typically accompanies fibrocystic breast disease. http://www.systemicenzymesupport.org/faq/hormones.htm
For the painful lymph nodes, do hot compresses as often as possible. This will increase blood circulation and should help them to "open up."
The SOTA Magnetic Pulser is used to help lymph node function also. You can use the SOTA LightWorks or any other LED light therapy device, as a gentle way to reduce the inflammation.
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Catgirl
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Thanks Tick Battler. I don't know if the gad is bothering me, just that I have it (had some doctors data tests done which show high gad). I'm high in other metals too though. I tried chelating them out with DMSA, but it didn't work (think that's because of my amalgams). I'm working on getting them out right now. I really like your idea of the frequencies. :)
Your practitioner sounds great! Can you please pm me her name?
Tammy, maybe you can try telling them that a family member had breast cancer? I did that and they covered the MRIs. Sure you can get radiation outside or on an airplane, but not directly focused on your breast tissue.
I hate when dentists, doctors, or technicians or even brain dead airport personnel tell you that radiation is okay or safe. Radiating fatty tissue is linked to cancer. If they want to do it to themselves, whatever floats their boat.
Carol, that's a great idea too (systemic enzymes)!
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articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/08/gaea-powell-on-thermography.aspx
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Judie
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Thanks, I've actually read the Mercola articles before, that's why I did thermography first.
Now I have an actually lump that my PCP felt (this is only 2 months after the thermagraphy and there's nothing on the thermography about it).
This does seem anatomical, that's why I think I'll at least to the ultrasound and still exploring the pros and cons of a mammogram.
I have no idea how long the lump has been there, but it's so painful under my arm, it's difficult rest my arm against the side of my body. I know that the pain started when I was infected with lyme though.
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Judie
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Tammy- Thank you sooooooo much for your post! So much good information. We do have a ton of stuff in common.
This so scary, all the decision making and such, especially having the lump!
If I didn't have this freakin' lump and pain, I would totally put the mammogram off, but I'm leaning that way.
"I think I started in my 20s if I remember correctly. This totally freaks me out now. (What the hell were these docs thinking!!???!)"
I can't believe the docs started you on mammograms so early. I don't think the docs were were thinking at all.
It sounds like the technology may have advanced over the years to be less radiation, so that's good news.
Take care! I hope we both found some relief in this. Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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AuntyLynn
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OK I realize I am late to this discussion -- but I defintely vote for the least invasive test ... i.e., thermography or MRI.
It never EVER made sense to me to shoot x-rays through breast tissue. And when I later learned that they compress your breasts first, I liked the idea even LESS!
So I have told some of my gynos, point blank over the years, "don't even bother writing a script for a mammogram because I will not use it."
Frankly, my ability to sleep over the long term, is more important than some radiologist's short-term bottom line.
And "baseline studies" be damned!
I had MORE friends who had "false positives" with mammos - who went through emotional HELL for weeks - only to find, after painful biopsies, that their "suspicious spots" were NOTHING!
Now mind you, there is no breast cancer in my family... and I am a "low estrogen" female (slim, small breasted) - so this is a very, very personal decision.
But frankly, the thought of squashing MY fibrocystic breasts, then shooting X-Rays through them every 12 Months did NOT make good "health sense" to me!
In fact, I even told one male gynecologist:
"I'll get a mammogram when you start using the same method to look for testicular cancer."
(He tried his best to stifle the laugh.)
And guess what? Scientists have FINALLY started to QUESTION the wisdom of submitting to this "annual" practice - for a lot of the same reasons that I had.
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Carol in PA
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I got this book for a buck, used, from Amazon. It had been a library book, and no one had ever read it.
It was easy to read and the concepts were well explained. I think you would like it, AuntyLynn.
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TX Lyme Mom
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This is my favorite website for breast cancer. This is a very well respected non-profit educational organization. http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/
Click on the FAQ tab at the top of the page and also be sure to click on the Iodine tab. Do not overlook the link to valuable info warning about the dangers of doing lymph node biopsies which is found in the menu on the left side of the home page.
Catgirl
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Great links TX Lyme Mom!
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Judie
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"Now mind you, there is no breast cancer in my family... and I am a "low estrogen" female (slim, small breasted) - so this is a very, very personal decision. "
Now that's interesting. My mom had breast cancer (she has practically no boobs) and I'm the opposite.
I'm definitely a high estrogen woman and you just reminded me that a friend who had breast cancer told me that estrogen feeds cancer.
I already did a thermopraphy and it gave me no answer about the lump under my arm.
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AuntyLynn
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Carol in PA - Thanks for the info on Dr. Welch's thoughtful book. It's good to see a member of the medical profession question the wisdom of "standard protocol." Sometimes it seems to me that we (women, especially) are too often victimized by a profession that has all but forgotten the oath to "First, do no harm."
TX Lyme Mom - Fascinating links! I had never heard of a correlation between iodine deficiency and breast cancer - nor that lymph biopsies cause uneccessary complications. (When we are led to believe that lymphedema is an unavoidable complication of breast cancer treatment!)
Lots of interesting reading in these posts - thanks all!
[ 02-18-2013, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: AuntyLynn ]
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Judie
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"Should I Be Tested for Cancer?: Maybe Not and Here's Why"
That does sound like a good book. Thank you Carol!
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tick battler
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I had to have a mastectomy last year and had the sentinal node biopsy done at the same time even though I was hesistant to do it. The surgeon took out 3 nodes which were negative. I had a very hard time with fluid build up after the surgery which took a long time to go down. And now if I use my arm to try to play tennis or even lift too much or throw a ball with my kids, I get tingling and swelling in my pectoral muscle area and in front of my armpit. So I do have lymphedema in the chest wall area.
I used to teach tennis and play competitively so this surgery may indeed be life altering for me if I am not able to play again. I wish I had read the info on that website about the sentinal node biopsy. The surgeons do make it seem pretty simple and they seem to imply that only if a few nodes are taken out, the risk of lymphedema is minimal. I'm not sure if I would have done anything different at the time but maybe I would have just had the mastectomy without it. But it was reassuring to hear that they were negative. I don't know if I could have had that assurance from other means.
tickbattler
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