Has anyone ever experienced significant muscle loss as a result of antibiotic treatment? Recently, whenever I have gone on aggressive antibiotic therapy I develop significant muscle weakness and eventually muscle atrophy.
I know conventional wisdom would say this is a herx; however, there does not seem to be any amelioration of my symptoms. There has to be a neurological component to this, but I am not exactly sure why.
So I guess my question is, has anyone experienced significant muscle loss or peripheral neuropathy as a result of treatment?
Thanks all. Hope everyone is doing well this evening.
Posts: 169 | From The Poconos | Registered: Jun 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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Well, Dr. B states in order to get well, the muscles must be worked (in his guidelines)
While on heavy antibiotic treatment, I found it too difficult to exercise besides walking (which did help)
and I felt very weak, thin-
I am off treatment, and have consistently been working with weights (low, repetitive) and have been slowly building up muscle
and feel and act stronger.
May want to check out Dr. B's guidelines, or see if you can start light lifting...
I do DVD's with hand weights.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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The thing is I do lift frequently. So I'm sure this isn't a "disuse atrophy"
Well I will certainly run it by my llmd and maybe make an appointment with a neurologist as well.
Posts: 169 | From The Poconos | Registered: Jun 2011
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surprise
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Hmm. Are you losing weight, not getting enough protein?
I just googled, it also mentioned low testosterone.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Testosterone is definitely something I should check. Thanks for the suggestion.
I get a crazy amount of calories and protein everyday.
It's just so weird that the weight loss/muscle loss is so dramatic...?
Posts: 169 | From The Poconos | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
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- Just because there is some treatment against a certain infection does not necessarily mean that infection is not still causing some damage -or another infection.
Even the best offense cannot totally stop all aspects of an infection all at once. It's not a magic wand by any means.
And, there are also other variables. Be sure to discuss this with your LLMD. It's important that they address this as there are so many factors.
MITOCHONDRIA is usually damaged from lyme and other TBD and that can take specific nutrients - and time for the treatment to work.
LIGHT WEIGHTS can be helpful but many with wrist, elbow or other joint troubles - or tendon issues can't grasp or lift the weights. Find a LL PT to help find ways if that is an issue.
And, if there can't be certain techniques worked out that are safe if joint or tendon issues occur, TAI CHI, QI GONG, tailored PILATES or restorative YOGA can be of help.
NUTRITION matters greatly, from the best quality foods possible.
A GLUTEN-FREE diet can also help with building up strength. If "LEAKY GUT" is an issue (as it is frequently) gluten can be a huge reason for that (along with other variables, of course). But by eliminating gluten the gut has a better chance to heal and absorb nutrients.
GMO - engineered foods - can also cause "Leaky Gut" as can CANDIDA overgrowth, carbonated beverages (even if just fizzy water), etc.
The inside of our entire GI tract really matters as to what nutrients even have a chance of getting through.
Rx treatment can also compromise the gut lining but there are some things to counter that such as Slippery Elm, Marshmallow Root, DGL, etc. A LL ND would have best advice on support methods.
After that, MITOCHONDRIA SUPPORT is vital as lyme damages mitochondria. Details in the next post but, still, your LLMD (and LL ND) really needs to be included in this "inquiry & recovery plan" process. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTIONS
Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148
- by Anura V. Kurpad
Fifteen pages of text.
Excerpt from abstract on page one:
. . . In general, the amount of extra protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . .
--------------------
As mentioned above, if the stomach lining or any part of the GI tract is compromised, nutrients may not be able to get to your cells.
GMO foods that destroy the GI Tract; Gluten; Dairy
"Hidden Sources of Gluten" links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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tdtid
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This is such a fascinating question for me since I had severe muscle loss while treating, but to me, I blamed it on the 9 months of being bedridden when I could no longer walk.
Never in my mind did I even think it MIGHT be from antibiotics which is why I'm fascinated by this topic.
Perhaps it was even a combination of the two. I spent weekly visits for a year in physical therapy to regain some of the muscle in my legs but I was still taking antibiotics so perhaps that is why it took me so long to be able to start walking again.
Double whammy so to speak. So although I don't know the answer to your question, I'm thoroughly fascinated by the responses and thank you for asking it.
I hope these symptoms will be short lived for you.
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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It's definitely a very strange occurence. I forgot to mention that although I've been sick for several years, I actually managed to become as strong as I have ever been in my life despite having lyme.
So there is no question that the antibiotics triggered something that resulted in systemic muscle loss.
Whether that was a direct result of the medication or a significant flare that led to severe nerve damage, I'm not sure...
Thanks again all!
Posts: 169 | From The Poconos | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- Look to the lining of the gut first. Did you take PROBIOTICS from the start? Still? Other anti-candida measures? Candida can cause all kinds of damage, including nerve damage.
Did you employ comprehensive LIVER SUPPORT the entire time, too? That can help protect the nerves as can other MITOCHONDRIA support.
And, still, your LLMD is the best person to supply answers as they will have much more detail about your body, your case.
Was your treatment COMBINATION? Were all forms of borrelia addressed? BioFilm? It takes a lot to stop borrelia from continuing damage even during treatment. Were the doses high enough? Support enough? All the bases have to be covered and that can be very difficult.
If liver support was not used, PORPHYRIA "reactions" can cause nerve damage. See detail here:
Bacteriostatic vs. Bacteriocidal consideration -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Many who cannot tolerate antibiotics - or need specific support measures around all that - find a LL ND can be a huge help to explore other ways to adequately address treatment.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- In addition to the MITOCHONDRIA & MYELIN support detailed in the Cardiac Thread linked above . . .
To help repair nerve fibers, the medical mushroom Lion's Mane has shown some promise. A good LL ND should know about this. For a start, I look to Wiki to get me going with the basics:
Yeah, I've been pretty good about taking probiotics and keeping the yeast in check (at least I think I have)
Appreciate your links on the llnd and adjunct therapies.
Especially the lion's mane mushrooms, I think I may give that a shot!
Posts: 169 | From The Poconos | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Just got up from a rest and thought:
Parasites?
Heavy Metals?
Both require attention regardless of which method is used to fight lyme as, when lyme dies off, it releases both parasites and heavy metals that became "entangled" in it biofilm, etc. It's not quite that simple but I don't know how else to explain it.
Parasites are becoming more evident as a major lyme coinfection. Which brings us to whether all the coinfections have been identified and addressed. It can be mild boggling so a very experienced LL doctor is best consulted for their thoughts.
See glm111 (Gael) posts for parasite warriors
and GiGi also posts of parasites and heavy metals.
Magnesium & Taurine deficiency also comes to mind but there can be various nutrient deficiencies that can damage nerves and affect muscles, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
A friend of mine was put in the hospital because her CPK level was extremely high signifying muscle atrophy. They discovered the increase was due to septra. It also caused her muscle weakness. The CPK level resolved once she stopped septra aka bactrim.
I am now wondering the very same thing. I never had weak arms until I started treatment. Now looking back I am wondering if the antibiotics caused the muscle weakness. It's hard to determine between a herx and med side effects.
Posts: 618 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
I've had the same thing, pretty sure it's from abx wrecking the GI flora. Wasting and weakness. Legs especially bad. No good.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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