posted
Background: Chronic Lyme son at college [Junior year]. Stopped antibiotics last summer. At the same time he tried to cut back on Effexor... and we spent 6 months trying to get him back under control. This semester at college he continues with the frontal headaches, and fatigue he had last semester. No real joint issues, nor brain fog. Now he has anger issues this semester and a video game addiction. Had lyme and babesia duncani in the past. Lab tests from Igenex: IgM Positive [IGENEX and CDC] 23-25 +++, 31+, 39 IND, 41 +, 83-93 IND. IgG Positive [IGENEX only] 34 IND, 39 ++, 41 +++, 58 +. Lyme Multiplex PCR Negative. Babesia duncani IFA IgM 20 ['20 may or may not indicate infection'], IgG <40 Negative. Babesia FISH Negative. Bartonella FISH Negative.
Not yet in are Lyme culture results from Advanced Labs... but I suspect they are irrelevant anyway.
Finally he consented to potentially restart antibiotics, but wants to wait so he does not have a herx in the middle of finals.
1. Do alot of chronic Lymies have more active IgM's than IgG's?
2. Any suggestions for things we could do over the next few weeks until we can start antibiotics that might not cause a herx? [no he won't do any drops].
3. I am going to assume Babesia is still present [in the biofilm at least].
Posts: 758 | From now TX | Registered: Mar 2001
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susank
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22150
posted
I had more IGM bands than IGG bands.
Turns out I have Hypogammaglobulinemia.
That may be a reason. Don't know.
The doctor with the LymeMD blog says that he sees that patients that have more IGG bands have a better chance of recovery.
Perhaps have your son's immunoglobulin levels checked ie total IGM IGG IGA and subclasses.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Yes, it is more common to have more positive bands on IgM than IgG. This is due to the spirochetes constant switching of surface proteins, so the body has to constantly make new antibodies.
Since IgM are the "new" antibodies, that is why more of them show up on a Western Blot than the IgG.
IgG are the "old" or "mature" antibodies, which is why most Infectious Disease docs want to see more bands on IgG positive if one has long-term Lyme.
But it doesn't work that way with Lyme. Lyme is a unique bug. It is constantly changing, so the immune system has to change too. Which means there is a much lower chance of having a positive IgG on a Western Blot.
Detoxing should help with symptoms, whether or not he is taking anything to kill the bugs.
Symptoms are caused by toxin buildup, which is why we get worse when we kill the bugs...the dead bugs add to the already heavy toxic burden from the infection itself...causing herxing.
So if he gets in the habit of regular detoxing (drink lemon water, exercise, dry skin brushing, etc.), then he will reduce the severity of current symptoms, as well as help to reduce the severity of herxing symptoms.
I don't know as much about Babesia, but I do think it is difficult to fully eradicate, so yes, I think it is safe to assume it is still present if he still has any symptoms that are consistent with Babesia.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa." --Dr C of MO
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by mjbucuk: At the same time he tried to cut back on Effexor...
Now he has anger issues this semester and a video game addiction.
He may need to increase the Effexor, maybe only a little.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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