My husband ripped out carpet in our guest room today- there are hardwoods underneath and carpet has been here since the previous owners so we thought it would help air quality in our home to get rid of it.
But there is obvious damage from massive water leak that must have happened before we moved here and old mold which has now been stirred up and is currently causing me tremors and skin burning, heart palpitations...etc.
I'm so exasperated with this house. I seriously want to punch the last owners in the face. Every year we've been here has been a massive clean up project of something that wasn't disclosed and was covered up in some way.
For example- a massive mouse infestation they didn't disclose. After moving in, it took 4 months to seal the house and get rid of the nests and droppings in the basement and throughout our new home. I'm sure I was exposed to a whole host of pathogens on that one.
Also within a month of us moving in my dog uncovered a 3 chamber septic tank in our backyard with about an inch of dirt between us and the bottom of the 7x15 foot pits. The city wouldn't help even though they "forgot" to fill it back when they did the rest of the neighborhood in the 40's...
It has been of that caliber problems nonstop. I could go on and on and on...
But it's our house now and we've got to fix it. So we are looking at a bathroom tear out (another impromper install and mold issue) and the entire room in the guest bedroom. On no budget...
Awesome.
Does anyone have any experience in mold remediation? Did you do it yourself or did you have to tent your home or leave your home during?
I know I am extremely allergic so many of my recent issues could easily be linked to mold. My husband has also been experiencing fatigue since he's been contract working from home so this is an issue we've got to address.
*UPDATE* I am finding a lot of really great information on past posts- should have searched first but still needed to rant, so thank you for listening!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
boy-can i relate. i will pm you.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
This is a nightmare. Sorry to hear of your uphill battle with the home.
We moved out of our house last year....for the entire year, to make sure it was totally mold free. We had a tiny leak in our crawl space that didn't even grow much mold, and also a small little area in the attic. But because I had bloodwork showing I had detox issues with mold, we went fanatical with the entire process. Search out some of my past posts. (I remember recently sharing a lot of details on one of Michaeltampa's posts.)
Now that you have seen the mold and know that you stirred it up, you have a lot of work to do. (Next time, whenever you deal with any type of project, make sure you seal off all other rooms except the room you are working in. And be sure to turn off the HVAC system so you don't blow everything thru the house.) We learned this the hard way also.
Bottom line is that everything needs to be thoroughly hepa vacuumed, then wiped down with ammonia and water (50/50). Everything. You need to wear a mask to do this. DO NOT USE BLEACH.
Start with one room and make it sparkling clean and totally mold free. Then as you clean everything down, put it into that clean room (being careful not to track anything in with you).
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It was one of our biggest struggles. To make it simple, we got rid of about half of everything we owned...which actually felt very freeing because we all have too much stuff anyway. We now look like newlyweds.....and need some more new stuff.
We also got an ozone machine and blasted each room and closet. We also got a propolis diffuser and put that in the bedroom. Oh and we also got an Austin Air that we keep in the bedroom.
Again, we went overboard and hardly had a problem. At the time Shoemaker's book scared the hell out of us. But I do feel very good about our home now. It is clean clean clean. A healthy home.
Hang in there.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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desertwind
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25256
posted
Also been there. House built in 1760 and previous owners just did so many things wrong.
10 years of of hidden black mold and gas leak. Will PN you...
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
1760? I'm at a loss of words! You are probably the most experienced of all regarding this...
I've left two homes because of mold. Although I have learned a lot from the experience, I took the easy way out.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Thank you guys! I had a certified remediation specialist come out an do an air quality test. He says he can't tell what the damage will be yet because of the way the previous owners covered it up.
Basically in the bathroom abutting the room with mold, they put tile- slate roofing tile- OVER the top of other tile surrounding the bathtub. It was not installed well and roofing tile is not supposed to be used as a tub surround so it's likely there is mold.
So if they did not seal the first set of tile (which based on the other things we've found in the home I guarantee they didn't) we are looking at two sets of tile tear out plus an increased possibility that mold is in the walls...here's the kicker- walls are plaster.
That means he cannot cut out a section of wall. The wall will have to be totally replaced where ever the tile is if the mold has gotten into it.
In the guest bedroom he doesn't believe it's terrible but again can't tell because they put floor on top of existing floor and paneled the entire room after painting the plaster in what I believe is epoxy from the paint splatters across the floor.
I looked at the sellers disclosure- they admitted to "upgrading" by putting in the carpet and retiling the bathroom but nothing about existing water damage.
My cousin is contacting a realty lawyer for me as I type this but I don't expect much to come of it.
So just waiting on the air quality test and we have to clean out the closet in the bedroom so we can access the wall panel to see up into the shower and figure out how bad the damage is...
This really, really sucks.
**** Ipkayak- was trying to PM you back but your mailbox is full Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
Thanks girl! Yes, the bathroom without a fan has the issue.
When we bought the house the inspector said just be sure to leave the door open after using the shower and open the window in the bathroom from time to time to allow air circulation.
I guess before a point in time codes did not require fans for ventilation in bathrooms- so they said it's something we *may* need to do at some point.
We assumed the "upgrade" to the shower was done correctly- but no dice. So yeah, that coupled with no fan leaves us with a potential disaster! Sigh.
Thanks for the warning on the mold test. The mold guy told us if we see any mold once we clear the closet and open the access panel to call him and he will come back. I'm positive it's going to be there and I don't want to open the wall before the room is cleared of everything and tented.
I've always been super allergic to mold and I've been complaining for a few months that I thought we could have a problem in the tile- but I didn't think it'd be this epic of a project. I can smell it and it makes so much sense that I have been soaking in that bathroom taking epson salt baths thinking I'm doing something good for myself, and have been poisoning my body instead.
Now that we see there's definitely been water damage in the abutting room it is "go time." So, hubby is finally on board for whatever renovation has to happen and hopefully in the end this will mean I stop being as terribly ill and we can maybe actually enjoy our house.
Fingers crossed...
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
That's great that you know to tent the room.
And I know this sucks, but *at least* you know what the problem is. So many people are sick from mold and have no idea, ya know?
Just make sure y'all (or whoever works on the bathroom) removes their clothes after working and doesn't wear them all throughout the house. Make that tent your bubble and if anything goes outside the tent, bag it up, better yet, double bag it until you can get it washed.
I use The Ecology Works Anti allergen laundry detergent and I believe it is effective against mold spores that we come into contact here and there. I'm not sure how well it would do, say, if you had to clean your entire wardrobe, but may be something you want to use in the future.
One y'all get everything gutted, or whatever you're going to do, if you do not have a bathroom fan yet, and you go to shower in there, I would definitely use a floor stand type fan that you can buy at Lowes, crack that window and make sure air is ciculating really well.
Another thought might be to install the bathroom fan very last thing because if y'all end up having to open walls, etc. you don't want the spore rising to (and through) that fan. The ceiling, if it's not tented off, will need to be cleaned.
Hope this helps give you some ideas. I am in no way an expert. But it sounds like you've got a plan.
There is also a little book called "Mold Free Construction" that I referred to when I had a house built from the ground up. May give you some ideas if you're not sure about something.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Thanks so much for all the suggestions girl! We have a full basement and one good thing is its unfinished and we've really taken care of it- making sure water issues have been solved there so- we are able to see that the subfloor at least on the backside is still good.
I just got a HEPA filter for the house- hopefully that will make things tolerable for now.
Thanks for all the ideas again and for listening to me vent about this!!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
You are welcome! Anytime!!
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
When it comes to washing clothes, you can just add 2 cups of ammonia to the washing machine (open windows in the room to well ventilate). I washed every article of clothing we own with this, and nothing got damaged. I also used an extra rinse.
Ammonia not only kills the mold, but it also neutralizes the mycotoxins, which is especially important. Killing mold is not enough, because even dead mold produces mycotoxins. Thanksfully the ammonia takes care of that.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Tammy thank you so much for the ammonia tip. I haven't started cleaning anything yet- the room is sealed off as of yesterday and I'm so exhausted and need a break from it today.
But this weekend we will have to get the stuff out and wipe it down with ammonia. I also need to wipe down the rest of the house.
I had a contractor come by last night- our neighbor- he said there is wood rot in the guest bedroom where he thinks an old AC unit may have leaked. (We have central air so not ours but previous owner's from a long time ago)
And says the visible mold- the old stuff on the floor is inactive but we could have active issues in the wall and definitely behind the shower and into that wall.
I have no idea what to do. The paneling in the guest room is not regular paneling- it is like as hard as concrete- and it has to be taken down in a solid piece. The mold person and the contractor told us to do it ourselves but I feel like this is beyond our capabilities and then if we open the wall and there is mold- what are we supposed to do then?!
By the way- buying a HEPA air purifier is the best thing I've ever done. The air is at least tolerable and I managed to sleep. My husband says he feels incredibly better today after having it run all night. So that buys us a little space, but I don't want to create more issues by being careless going forward and just digging into parts of the house without a plan for whatever horrors lurk beyond the walls!!
Argh. I think I'm just going to spend today in bed and try to think of a plan.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
Ok I'm losing it. I just found mold growing on receipt from yesterday that my husband got wet this morning- in the kitchen. Also there is visible mold on all the baseboards in that bathroom- black mold. The paint is coming off and I just looked closer and it is under all of it.
I cannot stop crying. I have no idea what to do and nowhere I can go.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
I wish I could be of some help. I don't know what to tell you. Both times my home got moldy, I left the home(s); but it was easier for me because it was a mobile home.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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I wish we could leave. I guess depending on how fixable this is we will see what can be done.
I had a good cry and then went to my in-laws and picked up an awesome ioniser they bought for us. It's made the air quality even better.
Then I stopped and got some supplies to do battle- plastic sheeting for tenting, gloves, mop, etc...
We can't do ammonia if I am here because I really react to it- we are going to start with straight vinegar and try to get all the things out of the room this weekend.
Once we fix this stuff I'm probably still going to want to get the hell out of here. I'm so over this place. I'd rather sleep in my car than deal with this house's issues anymore.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
I hate to tell you this, but I remember reading on either Dr. Shoemaker's website or either his book Surviving Mold NOT to use vinegar.
Has anyone else heard that?
I understand about the ammonia. When I bought my ozone machine, the man that sold it to me did a demonstration with ammonia. The machine got rid of the ammonia smell in about 30-60 seconds, but before that, I sniffed it (like a dummy) and got a massive headache.
If I were you though, I would get one of those heavy duty face masks and just use the ammonia.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I'm so sorry to hear all this Denise. As hard as it seems, you will get through it. I feel for you.
If you get the special masks from Home Depot, you shouldn't have any difficulties tolerating the ammonia. They are about $40 ea if I remember correctly.
I would really try to do the ammonia (just the plain one, not lemon scented). There are several ways to kill mold. But killing it is not enough. Ammonia will help with the mycotoxins.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Is it a straight ammonia solution that you're supposed to use, or to you dilute it with water or something?
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Hubby is picking up ammonia and I will clear out of the house once anything starts being looked into.
We are looking into the attic today to see if that's a mess- which based on the lack of venting until last summer, could be really awful. I've had people up there before for different things- and no one's mentioned an awful mold problem, but who knows. We had the roof replaced in September and the guys said the rafters were solid, but that doesn't mean there isn't something up there that is getting into our air. Luckily not much runs through the attic- the venting system is in the basement, so we could potentially seal the attic off from the living space if it's not too bad.
But if it's bad up there, we are planning to short sell. Attic remediation will be beyond what we can handle and better to just walk away than put any more money into a situation that is so overwhelming.
I don't know where we'll go- maybe my in-laws will co-sign on a small home. But I'd prefer to live in a trailer or camper for a couple years until we build up credit again, than to stay one more second in a house that's making us ill. Now all three of the dogs are having allergies despite the two air purifiers running. So something is definitely going on in this house.
Just praying and keeping my fingers crossed that it is not horrid in the attic- and even then we may just fix the bathroom/bedroom problem and sell.
Thanks again for the advice and support.
Ipkayak! Mailbox! LOL! Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
I wasn't going to tell you this earlier because I didn't want to bring you down, but since you mentioned the dog situation, I thought I might tell you.
From my experience, a HEPA filtration system isn't really going to fix a mold problem. It can help the air seem clear, by getting dust out of the air, but some mold spores are too tiny to get caught up by the filter and they can go straight through.
Just be careful with a trailer/camper/ because you can run into the same problem. Especially if the roof is flat and there are single pane windows, etc. I lived in one fine for about 5 years, but eventually they get problems.
I think it's great y'all are thinking about leaving the place if you need to. So many people stay, despite it making them sick, or for emotional ties or whatever reason, and I just can't understand it when they do.
Good for you for taking matters into your own hands.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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beths
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Member # 18864
posted
Borax !! A knowledgeable mold remediator told us not to use ammonia but 1 cup of borax per 1 gallon water. . You can buy it at Walmart. No toxic smell either
Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2009
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beths
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
There are many advantages to using borax to kill mold. For starters, borax is a natural cleaning product and although it is toxic if you swallow it, borax does not emit chemicals or dangerous fumes like some other mold killers. Borax, a white mineral powder, has a pH level of about 9 (baking soda is pH 8.1 and pH 7 is neutral) and a low toxicity.
Borax is commonly used as a deodorizer as well as for cleaning toilets and drains. Borax is also used as an insecticide, herbicide and fungicide and it can be mixed with water in a solution to kill and remove mold as it is a natural mold inhibitor. You can buy borax in supermarkets for a few dollars from the laundry section.
How to Kill Mold with Borax
To kill mold using borax, create a borax-water solution using a ratio of 1 cup of borax per gallon of water.
Vacuum up any loose mold with a HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner to lessen the number of spores stirred up into the air during the cleaning process.
Use a scrubbing brush with the borax-water solution to scrub the mold off the surface.
Wipe up any extra moisture and excess mold particles or dust/debris to prevent them spreading into the air once the surface has dried.
You don't need to rinse off the borax as the solution will prevent more mold beginning to grow on the surface again.
Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
No worries girl! Don't hold back on the advice! I appreciate it so much and nothing you could tell me could scare me anymore than the things I've read on google by now! LOL!
Thanks for the advice on the trailer/camper. I definitely plan on being hyper vigilant about air quality anywhere I am after this!!
I do know the HEPA filter is only buying us *space*- like making it a little more tolerable but the problem absolutely has to be taken care of or forget this place!
Yeah- I came to the conclusion last night and hubby is in agreement. I've been a lot sicker since we moved here than I ever was before...could be illness progression or something in the home making me worse.
We are all being affected by allergies at this point so it's not worth it- if this is the problem- and we'll see shortly about the attic- there is no way it makes any sense financially or personally to stay here if it makes us sick. It's better to just eat the loss and walk away.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
AHHHH!!! Attic is perfect!!! Even where there was moisture before- no mold at all! Fantastic. So that narrows things back down and we can possibly handle this!!! So happy!!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
Yep. And just be careful (if) when you do walk away, be careful with your "stuff." You want to make sure everything's clean and you don't take the problem with you. The story about the receipt getting moldy kinda concerned me...
The courthouse in the town where I used to live got moldy and so they built a new courthouse. Well what happened was they took the furniture from the first courthouse to use it in the new one, and they transferred the problem from one place to the next.
I think I mentioned this before, but just something to think about... (as if you didn't already have enough) but you just want to make sure if you do it, you do it right.
The first time I left my home because of mold I had to give up all my books (and eventually pictures because I kept them for years in a box, but every time I looked at them my hands broke out) which broke my heart. I eventually learned that they're just books. And thankfully, the pics were just ones of me and my ex b.friend.
But you could still wash your clothes, etc. in the ammonia or whatever the above poster mentioned - and then a lot of stuff like things made out of glass can be rinsed off, and electronics supposedly (according to Shoemaker) can be cleaned, too.
Hopefully your problem isn't this widespread, but depending on if you have HVAC system, duct work, etc. it could be blowing it throughout the house.
Wish I lived closer and I could come sniff it out for you. I can tell within about 5 mins. of being in a building if it's got mold, how bad, where, etc.
Are you gonna take a flashlight up to the attic and look at the wood, check the insulation, etc.?
Keep us posted!
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
OH GOOD. Just read your attic post. Great news! ~ And thanks for the reassurance. Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Hey Beths- thank you for the Borax suggestion. That'd be really good- wonder if we can get away with Borax for all the major indoor stuff? I know the vet has even told us to use it on the carpets if we ever suspect fleas- so it might be better on the dogs' lungs as well to go that route...
Yeah girl, I feel like I won the lottery on the attic. We tented the space off before going up and hubby wore a full body suit and respirator and looked around everywhere with a flashlight. I am just elated that it's ok!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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So glad your hubby is on board. What a blessing!
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
daynise-i fixed my mailbox
tammy-you give me hope
i also bought a house where the sellers had gone to extremes to cover up stuff
lost 1500. with lawyer ... could have used that for remediation
i know air testing is like lyme testing...a neg isnt a neg...and can change from minute to minute so i havent done that
i did a lot of remediateing of floors...toilet seal was allowed to leak for 9 yrs and water went everywhere and they kept covering up wetness with new carpets. idiots.
anyway-now i intermettently get mold smell and still cant figure out from where.
4 mold specialists all disagreed on what was going on and none of them found the toilet problem-i did.
it may be in attic...but i dont know how it gets into house.
it may be under tub...but that is sealed off...
it may come in from outside---intermittenly outside smells moldy too. there are moldy cars next door. temp/humidiyt/wind direction affect it i think.
so...not sure what to do. i get sx when i smell mold. a diffuser with thieves oil knocks down my sx. but i worry about permanent internal damage.
i know i am getting sicker and foggier and it is probably due to mold...so plan to move into camper and leave when enviroment here smells like mold...hope i will begin to think clearly again...and try to figure it out
too tired to type more but will be watching this thread
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
lpkayak is there a crawlspace or slab or basement?
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
Crawlspace/basement is one of the MOST important areas to clean thoroughly of mold. I've been told that 50-70% of the air in your home comes from these lower levels. It is paramount to make them mold-free.
We met with several remediators to make sure ours would be cleaned perfectly. In the end my husband didn't feel like he could trust anyone, so he order the hazmat suit, heavy duty special mask and goggles, got a large shop vac with hepa filter (with a long hose so the unit could sit outside the window and not blow things around) and he thoroughly vacuumed/scrubbed everything down, then dowsed it good with ammonia. It was one rough weekend, but the piece of mind it has given us since is priceless. Poor hubby did the same thing in the attic "just to be sure". We had come so far, he didn't one to leave one stone left unturned.
My husband also pulled all the dirt away from our entire foundation (in sections) and thoroughly sealed the concrete from the outside to be sure not a single drop of water could come inside. Where mortar had crumbled away from the cinder blocks, he scraped out and re-patched with hydrolic cement. He then troweled a thick layer of roofing tar, and while sill wet pliable, he pressed a thick heavy layer of vinyl against it (it's actually an ice shield used on roofs, it comes in rolls) before he put all the dirt back. He was given these tips from an expert. The basic tar that just gets painted on is not nearly enough.
Boy, when I look back on all we did, it's hard to believe.....
The encouraging thing to know is that it is doable, and you will get through it.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Tammy- that is amazing. Seriously. Good job!!
Thankfully, we've done the basement- but I am really impressed that you even did the outside of the foundation beneath the dirt.
Our basement project was a couple summers ago. It was a four month job because of the rodent debris and sealing the foundation. It was the worst of all tasks, but now basement is bug and rodent free, dry, and sealed- so we've got that going for us.
I did a lot of the work down there but that was before I felt so bad. It was god awful but I'm glad it's done and we can just do occasionally re-sealing here and there to maintain it.
Thanks for all the tips you've been sharing. It really gives me hope that we can do this!!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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dbpei
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Member # 33574
posted
Forgive me if this was already asked, but is there any accurate way to test for mold in your house besides collecting dust for ERMI testing?
I did the scotch tape sampling in 8 areas of my home and there was nothing dangerous found. (EnviroHealth Mobile Mold Inspection Service)
I am having a hard time getting the amount of dust that is needed and I have central vac, so cannot use dust from vacuum cleaner bag for this.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I have central vac too. When you pay for the kit there is a dust catcher that goes on the end of the vac. They have you just do like a 4x7 section. I used EMSL labs for the ERMI they are the cheapest.
Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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Tammy N.
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Member # 26835
posted
dbpei - suggested places to gather dust (from places not often dusted)..... tops of light bulbs, tops of door jambs, behind furniture, refrigerator, under stove, etc. We did this test and I remember some of these suggestions came from them, then we were able to figure out additional places where dust hides. What you want is an historical sample so it's good to gather old dust and not just new dust.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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dbpei
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posted
RC1, I just contacted EMSL. Thank you.
Tammy, thanks for the input. Did you submit a dust sample using vacuuming or did you try to gather and place in a plastic bag?
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i am on a slab and we wnt down to it-thru many layers-sealed it with dri-lock and i lived on it like that for awhile with scatter rugs to see if it would wick up water. but it didnt. then about a 30x40 space we installed a special subfloor with rubber on the bottom...and it has air flow all around-under and up and i painted that and put rugs o it. all that seems really good and dry.
we didnt take out the tub or old wet floor under it---we dried it out from 3 sides for days and then taped it to seal it until we can do it. we also didnt do a small laundry room or the kitchen that have linol on top of sub floor. we taped and sealed all edges. but the odors dont seem to come from there.
can spores go thru ceiling sheetrock if you dont see mold or a hole or anything?
my biggest question is: how can mold be active enough for me to smell when the humidity is 30-20%???
in all my readings this just doesnt make sense
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I have heard that when you get the humidity down, that it can dry out the mold and cause it to release spores. I don't know for sure if that's true.
I don't know if spores could get through sheet rock per say, but I know I can definitely sense it through sheet rock and it affects me when it's behind the sheet rock. I worked in a building that had mold behind the walls. I could smell it and when I held my nose right up to the wall and sniffed, it burned my nose. It gave me vertigo, etc. It was bad.
It sounds like you did A LOT of work on your slab. I have a question for you. I thought maybe you'd have an opinion, given your experience...
The house we recently built was a slab but it's what is called a stemwall slab where the slab is built above the ground. It's kind of like having a crawlspace that is filled with dirt and then the slab is poured on top of it. We didn't seal it with any type of dri-lock or anything.
The dirt just has a 10 mil. vapor barrier over it before the cement was poured and then another vapor barrier went on top of the cement before the tile and other flooring was put down. Do you think that's enough? (If there was one mistake made, I would think that the cement just wasn't given enough time to 'dry out' before the rest of the floor was put down.)
It's a shame we have all these MOLD PROBLEMS and this is something we have to think about the rest of our life! For a while there, I just wanted to build a beach house that was lifted off the ground where you could park underneath, to make sure there was adequate air flow underneath the house. But I'm sure the mold could sneak in there somewhere!
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Found mold in upstairs master bathroom last night. We've never used the shower because the inspector warned us that the tile was installed incorrectly and could grow mold.
Well we looked it over last night- Whoever installed used the wrong kind of back-board behind it and there is visible mold on the board beneath the trim and tile and on the back of the trim itself- black, brown, green...
I am having trouble digesting all of this stuff at once. But the plan is downstairs first, get it safe- then move bedroom downstairs, and tent off master and rip the crap out of it.
I think this will be ok because mold spores rise (at least that's what the remediator said)- so if we are able to get out of the area and hopefully if we don't disturb anymore of the master bath, nothing will be released until we can do it. But maybe I'm delusional...
I really hope this is something we can manage but I'm feeling really distraught right now. Basement is solid and attic is solid, so those are huge wins but I've read some insanely scary numbers on remediation costs in living spaces.
I wish the test would hurry up and get back so we can see the estimate attached.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
girl-id really like to talk to you more. i feel we are in a war against the mold and all those wanting to make money on us.
i dont have time now and phone is easier for me cuz of hand arthritis ... i do have a lot of experience and resources...so lets try to talk soon
i'll pm you
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tammy N.
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posted
Would it be possible to clean your belongings down and get them into storeage or stored in the basement (fully covered with plastic drop cloths)? (Basically empty the house). Then temporarily move in with your inlaws while you do the house work. This way there won't be cross-contamination. And, more importantly, you won't be onsite during the big stir-up. You'll probably get it all done much quicker too.
It's very difficult living in the home while trying to do all this stuff properly. It will be nearly impossible to avoid a lot of exposure. Just some thoughts.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
daynise:
-tenting is good but u understand about negative air also, right?
-i dont want to make your life worse...but there are serious problems with the testing...esp air testing...neg are NOT for sure neg
the numbers of spores change day to day sometimes minute to minute
lawyers like you to pay a lot of money for tesing but reputable remediators know it doesnt mean much and it is better to put the money into remediation
i said "reputable"...many arent
there is a gove site with good info that is unbiased
(i wouldnt send you to a govt site for lyme...haha...but they do have a bunch of good info and they are not tryin got make money off you)
good luck
i wish we all lived close and could get togeterh
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Thanks for the suggestions- I'm overwhelmed so not thinking the clearest. But that is wise advice. I've been worried about the 3 dogs but we can board them during the tear out and crash at the in-laws. I think that plan is a really smart idea.
Do you think it'd be enough to put belongings in rubbermaids in the office and seal off the office?
As long as the vents are sealed it would be safe, right? And then I can clean off each container with ammonia or borax to be safe before opening any of them when it's all said and done?
It's funny- I've been instinctively putting things in containers and moving them to the basement since last summer. I've felt driven to pack up more and more of the house but I had no idea why. It's still going to be epic and horrible but a lot of the extra stuff is already downstairs...
Wonder if I subconsciously saw this all coming...
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
Hi Ipkayak! No I don't know about negative air... I'm looking that up right now!!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
Daynise, I, too think it would be best if at all possible you could leave the house during remediation. I wish you could SUE the previous owners or some type of homeowners insurance company or the bank or the contractors or whoever is responsible for this mess!
Also, I don't know how easy it would be to get in touch with this guy, but I'm sure he could give you some insight. It's the author of the book:
State Certified Class "A" General Contractor State Certified Master Roofing Contractor State Certified Master Plumbing Contractor Licensed Indoor Air Quality Consultant Environmental Consultant NIAQI Trainer/Speaker NIAQI Advisory Board Member Certified Mold Inspector Certified Mold Remediator Certified Mold Project Manager Originator of the Mold-Free Process� of Construction
~~~ I just don't trust all remediators. Yes, it costs a lot but you want to make sure the job is done right. I would make them sign something! Some sort of guarantee. (if you go through a remediator.) Otherwise, I would just make sure you do all the homework before you get started.
Downstairs first sounded like a good idea. You want to make sure that basement really is safe since that's the lowest level.
sorry you're having to go through this. Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Note: I am in no way affiliated with this product, just always looking for healthy solutions.
Posts: 8981 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Test results: Higher than outdoor levels of: Alternaria Ascospores Aspergillus|Penicillium Cladosporium
These are in the living area and the basement...awesome. That makes 4 rooms and the basement is where all the venting is and where we did all the work before.
The remediator said that we "passed" but that the mold on the back of the trim upstairs could indicate a problem we need help with. He seems to think the air levels are safe enough to do this ourselves and said to call if we get into it and see that it's a massive issue.
I don't know what to think... I can't stop weeping and my in-laws are treating me like I'm overreacting. My husband has blood in his sinuses, my dogs are reacting, and I am immunocompromised and very sick....doubt there's anything I can do that would qualify as an overreaction at this point besides lighting a match and walking away!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Daynise, I am so sorry to hear you are going through this. Many homes are more toxic inside than out. Part of the problem is that you now know what you're up against. Unfortunately, lyme makes people worry more too.
That said, you're not alone. I have to tell you about a friend who was very sick. It turned out lyme wasn't her biggest challenge, it was mold. Long story short, she decided to sell. She looked at 15 houses before she found one that would be easier than the others to remediate. ALL of them had mold. It is incredibly common. Most people don't even know they have it.
I'm sure you know that where ever you go could have problems too. Landlords and owners aren't the best at telling people what's behind their walls. And now people have to consider testing homes for meth chemicals.
Stay positive and focus on whatever goals you set. Hang in there. You and your family will get through this.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Thanks Catgirl. I calmed down. Uggh. I'm just so overwhelmed and everything is happening at once...
Got most of the master closet packed up.
Here's the thing on the home- is it even possible to remedy a mold issue if the duct work is downstairs in the basement and there continues to be an issue?
Just don't know what else I can do down there and since the spores rise, I am concerned it will never be ok for me here. There's a dehumidifier down there- but I wonder if there is a way to filter the air better down there or is it just a lost cause. It is scrubbed, sealed, vacuumed, etc...
I'd bet money it's in the garage too and the garage sits below our bedroom.
But like you said Catgirl, mold is EVERYWHERE. And I have had looooong term exposure.
Growing up my parents had my brother and I in the basement and it flooded everytime it rained. I became very allergic but still had to sleep down there and never got treated for allergies. Even my bed had mold on the underside. I remember how bad my lungs hurt those 6 years.
Anyway, now I'm probably hyper sensitive...
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Tammy N.
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posted
My husband sealed all the seams in our ductwork that is in our crawlspace. You can use a special tape, like we did. But we recently heard that there is also a special paint-on product. It's what the pros use (we didn't know about it when we sealed our seams).
hopingandpraying mentioned Thieves. We use that now and love it. But when we were very focused on getting rid of mold for sure, we went with the ammonia. I believe that is the best choice. A friend of mine who is a researcher, spoke with many mold specialist (scientists, etc) and she gave me all the reasons why ammonia is best. I've heard people say Thieves is good for mold, but I don't think there is scientific proof of it though.
Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and it will all work out. Try not to let your in-laws see you crack....all you need is for them to start dismissing you. That will just add to your burdens. Try to calmly educate them as you go along so they can see the truth of it.
Be well.
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lpkayak
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posted
moldinspector.com is easy to read and search and has a lot of info...but he is making money-dont forget that
there is a thing called an air-exchanger that can be used if you have a basement. i think you can get them with hepa filters...it will be expensive
if you dont get all mold out of duct work you will just keep recontaminating house./ you probably need professional to do that
daynise-with the amount of mold you talk about and your history i dont know if it will be possible for you to fix this.
sorry. dont want to be negative. but i have read a lot...and hate to see ppl throw money away
i have never heard of ammonia being used. borax and vinegar and thyme oil are what i i hear are best. there is a professional thyme oil in gallon jugs that kills 99%
i have itunder the cupboard and can post it if someone wants it...too tired right now
also teatree oil-but that is expensive...
there's a lot of us going thru this...its wrong
this is so true:
"She looked at 15 houses before she found one that would be easier than the others to remediate. ALL of them had mold. It is incredibly "
i also notice i often smell mold when i get out of the car...it comes from buildeings...stores, doc offices, schools etc
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
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posted
It's ok Ipkayak. I have to face reality here.
The basement has a mold issue. I just found it. Green mold covering the floor joists and black mold in some of the areas- beneath the kitchen and the other bedroom. Looks like water came down from kitchen. We had a small leak from the dishwasher several months ago but cleaned up the water we saw and thought we had done a good job...apparently not. So there must be mold behind it and probably behind the kitchen cabinets.
There is also black mold on the floor joists in the garage. This makes every room of the house... I am beyond distraught.
We have another company coming out tomorrow. We'll see what the estimate is...
My husband is newly self employed and I am unemployed- which means no bank would ever give us a loan at this point and with 3 dogs no one is going to rent to us.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Rumigirl
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I haven't had time to read all of the posts, but it sounds like you more than have grounds to sue the people you bought the house from! I'm no lawyer, and you'd have to consult one to see if this is viable, but this stinks to high heaven (that they covered up so much bad stuff)!!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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lpkayak
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rumi-u wouldnt believe how hard it is sue...the lawyers just take your money and then the case gets thrown out of court
in my case the sellers hid it on purpose in many ways -so did their realtor...sneaky tricky things.
they have been hiding it for 9 yrs. -at least- i found out cuz workers i hired to help said-"i was here 9 yrs ago and told them not to coover up that wet floor with carpet"=but the sellers paid him to do just that...
other inspectors mentioned "they tried to remediate here-but did it wrong..."
they said "no moisture" on the disclosure---thats a lie but the lawyers know how to get around it
in my experience and many readings i believe walking away is the best thing in many situations
if you are gonna spend money i would spend it on reno...or moving...but not lawyers-unless they dont get paid until they win for u
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
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up
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Ok...remediation is happening Monday. I am so scared but we've talked it over and paying for it in the basement and bathroom is the route we are most comfortable with and then we will continue to seal, maintain, and remediate the other rooms as we can.
Moisture in the basement has to be addressed but the company coming gave us a step by step plan on improving air quality and preventing as much moisture as possible ourselves. It will require constant vigilance due to the stone foundation but until hubby builds up credit with his new business (2 years) we are kind of stuck making it work.
So, it's 4 days next week. Please, please, please send me all the good thoughts and prayers you can- that it goes well and that this is going to change health for me in a positive way!
Thanks again for everyone's input and advice. I'll let you know how it goes!!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Praying for you! Good something is done already monday!
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Catgirl
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Daynise, nothing but good stuff coming your way from here on out! :)
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
they have to take out the walls in the bathroom. Not because of mold but because the walls are plaster and the people who put in the second layer of tile glued it straight to the plaster.
i am in a nightmare. i wish i could just wake up. I can't take much more...
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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dbpei
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I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through. You seem to be a strong person, Daynise. I bet if we all had our houses tested, we would be in a similar nightmare. Scary stuff.
Hope things start to get better for you. You will be all the closer to being well, once you have gotten through this year of renovations...
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lpkayak
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so daynise...how is it going with the remediation
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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desertwind
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Not much else to add. I can totally relate.
10 years of ongoing crap in my house. Black mold in 2 bathrooms, behind the walls in my dining room, under floors and in the attic. A chronic gas leak behind my kitchen wall and huge mouse infestation in the ceilings.
The children of the previous owners looked sooooo sick - now I know why. Best to you...
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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lpkayak
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desertwind-have you made a plan for the attic mold-that is my next project-but i am out of money and estimates are huge.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
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posted
up...still wish daynise would check in here-hope the reno went ok
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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I wish I could be of some help. I don't know what to tell you. Both times my home got moldy, I left the home(s); but it was easier for me because it was a mobile home.
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