Topic: Astragulus in Green powder, is it a concern?
gigimac
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
There is a green drink powder I have thought of getting but it contains Astragulus. I know Buhner does not recommend Astragulus for chronic lyme.
Should I avoid this green drink? Perhaps the amount is very small.
I believe I took source naturals Wellness Formula before and had no ill effects and only realized later it did contain astragulus. Maybe it depends on the amount?
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Keebler
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- As you did not feel any ill effects, that's just dandy. Still, it's good to check dosage.
It's probably fine, however, it all depends on the amount (a small amount?) and what else is in it to balance out the immune stimulating action of astragulus that can be too strong for those with chronic lyme.
It's not just what else is in the formula for balance, though, it also depends on what else you are taking. If you have a LL ND, it's best to ask them about everything you take as they can determine the right balance for YOUR body at this point in time.
If you do not have a LL ND, post the link and we'll go from there.
Best if the link is from the direct product's ingredient page - from the exact manufacturer or a site that can be trusted totally to have the full label or list? iherb.com and vitacost.com are such sites with great product detail.
As you say you "believe" you took a certain brand, check that out to be sure and then find a good direct link. Just copy & past the URL to here.
On another note, some greens powder can be way too stimulating for someone with neruo-lyme or adrenal dysfunction -- if they contain seaweeds, kelp, dulse (and which go by many names). The natural "MSG" / glutamic acid or glutamine is very excitatory to the nerve cells and it's best to keep that on the lower end.
It's all about amount, though, and what else might be there to balance it out. Detail in next post. -
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Keebler
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- If there is any seaweed or added ingredients:
See post: Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine
Lots of "health powders" have added ingredients. Source Naturals is one of the best brands althouhg, t's also best to know this:
avoid "Natural Flavors" unless you can be assured they are from actual plants (as is sometimes the case but not often), not made in a chemical plant. See the "60 Minutes" report here:
Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors -
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Keebler
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- For a frame of reference and what a typical dose might be for an ordinary case (not about lyme, though, so be sure to read what Buhner says - and Zhang, too, as it is in some Hepapro formulas).
Keebler
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- gigmac,
So you are "considering" and have not yet taken, I assume. Good.
I may be jumping too fast to just my take on this but here goes: I would not take this, the Energetix Nutritionals - Greening Power.
Why I say that (and this is all just my opinion based on personal study and experience - I am not any kind of professional anything):
Barley grass could contain gluten if their practices are not perfect. You would just need to examine the company's practices to be sure.
Dulse is seaweed and, therefore, excitatory by nature. Now, this could be just fine, of course, but they don't tell you how much is in this and that matters.
Panax and American Ginseng are two kinds of ginseng can be far too stimulating for those with chronic lyme.
Mostly: Bee Pollen, Bee Propolis can send you to the moon, depending upon the amount. If you do take this, ALWAYS WITH FOOD as those two ingredients can cause nausea and flu-like symptoms of too much or even a little on an empty stomach.
Never take Bee Pollen or Bee Propolis too late in the day. 3 pm - with food - would be the lastest I'd suggest. It can cause insomnia. It can be fabulous, of course, it's just that for our population, it's best to have separate so you can control the amount taken for tiny, tiny amounts to start.
Sage. Depends on if culinary sage or a different kind. Culinary sage is okay but if a different form, this can be far to excitatory.
Stabilized Rice bran - can get old, rancid and even toxic in heat. Usued mostly as a filler. Some rice contain arsenic so I just avoid anything with rice as it's just too hard to trace where they get theirs and that can vary from time to time.
And, my own preference is to always avoid anything with cutesy name or names that sound like a blast of energy. Energetix is a word that just sounds harsh. It may be a bit harsh on my part but if a product or brand needs a name that pops, it just puts me off.
Lastly, though, as this is a proprietary blend you can't see the amounts of anything. We need to see exactly how much of what we are getting.
Organic is always preferred. This is not.
And, there is no detail on their source. You can't see where they are grown, how tended, processed, etc. This information matters greatly. If you can't see verification of their practices, assume they are not necessarily tip-top. They may be but it's not clear from what I see on their page.
And the price. $62. for ten ounces is ridiculous (in fairness, though, I think the Bee Pollen and Bee Propolis must raise the price). I think you can do much better. I'll be back with a suggestion. -
[ 05-19-2013, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- from Mountain Rose Herbs (in Oregon) - many items here are just about $14. for a full pound (16 oz.)
These powders can be mixed in some water and just swallowed. No need to put into capsules once the stirring and breathing rhythm can be worked out so that you aren't breathing in powder.
These can be mixed and matched, too. VERY deep in color and rich. I love how these help me feel.
These come in vacuum sealed plastic bags. As soon as they arrive, put into clean, dry GLASS and store in a cool, dark place - or the fridge.
If you order, ask if they can send you a few GRAM SPOONS. It's very helpful to determine dose. -
[ 05-19-2013, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- I know I have links sets for all of those but I can't find them in my file notes right now. Back later. In the meantime, you can find great detail here by just searching the items by name:
Topic: HIBISCUS s., Roselle � links -
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gigimac
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Is there a green mixture you like?
The ingredients threw me off as well. I was told everything was detox right now and I noticed Eleuthero in there and I can't remember what Buhner recommends that for but it sounds like something that can cause a herx in the right amounts.
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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Keebler
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- Eleuthero is good, it's also called Siberian Ginseng but is not a true ginseng and not excitatory as they can be.
Eleuthero is available at Mountain Rose Herbs but it may be under "Siberian Ginseng" --
Read all Buhner writes about it, in all his books, before you get too far into this so that you can know you are using it as best intended.
If you are actually on the Buhner protocol, it's best to follow that as precisely as possible (although each person's plan may be a bit different, there are some "rules" so to speak).
I've never gotten any kind of herx from Eleuthero at all and I find it more supportive in nature. Still, everyone is different and it's always good to start very slow and low, one thing at a time for a few days.
I mix the selections in my notes above: Gotu Kola; Stinging Nettle; Spirulina & Chlorella.
I use Tillotson's book to help determine dose but I may vary that from time to time as I also vary the combinations so I keep in separate glass jars for the most part (other than smaller blends for short term rotations).
There is a big difference in taking GREENS POWDER for the nutrient support - as these are intended and if you want specific therapeutic action. Some can do both, so just be sure you are in line with recommended dose. -
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Keebler
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- You say that you were "told everything was detox right now" (end quote).
Then you must have a professional with whom you are working? If so, talk to them.
"Detox" is not my favorite word as the definition can mean many different things.
All the things I've listed are extremely supportive to all the body's systems of detoxification. This is what I'm all about: not "detox" as an event but "support" the body so that it can do it's job better.
And they are also packed with great nutrients to feed all the cells. This is good food for the cells so that they can have an easier time if it.
Gotu Kola has some fabulous properties to help remove toxins - and helps with microcirculation. Nettles leaf can help calm a cytokine storm. For those reasons (and many more) I think both are excellent for my body.
Spirulina is excellent mitochondria support. Chlorella has similar properties but also some different ones.
Both can help reduce heavy metal burden.
And don't forget other colors, too. Hibiscus is fabulous.
Again, it's best to talk to your LL professional if you have one. And if you think they are not as LL or as well educated in herbs as you need, look around. But I know not everyone has money or access so I just share what I've learned along the way but it's still just bits and pieces.
IMO, it's best to have your own individualized formula of just what you need - as, far too often, the blends for sale have so much to "confuse" our bodies, too much that we can't control and are too expensive. Keep it simple. Once you get the hang of having a few different jars of pure greens powders, it gets easier.
If you want a commercial powder though, I recall GREEN VIBRANCE as being excellent.
Still, it is through the roof expensive and, again, far too many ingredients that can send the body into a spin (the body is just not designed to have a hundred different foods in concentrated form at the same moment in time). -
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gigimac
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Thanks Keebler. I have tried cats claw and japanese knotweed. Wow, the knotweed was insane. I literally could not complete a sentence the morning after taking one capsule.
Cats claw also produced a herx, a much much smaller one.
I guess I just assumed everything in Buhner's protocol was killer.
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Keebler
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- We are talking about two totally different things here.
You asked about greens powders and that was my focus.
Cat's Claw and Japanese Knotweed are not in that category of nutritional food, as in the way greens powders would be. I see them as more direct
Everything in Buhner's protocol is not at all "killer" unless they are not used in the proper proportions - and some are for more direct use than others. If something is too harsh, check to be sure directions are followed, especially about starting slow. That part can be forgotten.
It's all about balance but, again, I addressed only the greens powders, not in connection with any particular protocol at all, just basic nutrition. -
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