Topic: Ox bile: what do you know about it? Has it helped you?
beaches
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posted
So "Ox Bile" just sounds gross to begin with. But apparently it is used in Chinese medicine.
LLMD prescribed it to help digest fats, which based on stool analysis is a problem.
But here's the thing-there is some relationship between taurine and ox bile. I think taurine is derived from ox bile?
So if you have a CBS mutation you potentially already have a problem with taurine from what I understand.
And unless you're vegan you get more than enough taurine by ingesting animal proteins.
So if you're already taking digestive enzymes that help break down fats, is ox bile really necessary? What is the difference between ox bile and the digestive enzymes that break down the fat?
And could ox bile possibly be contraindicated, especially in light of a CBS gene mutation, and not knowing if SUOX is also a factor?
If I didn't have my day-to-day stuff and challenges to try to keep up with, I might very well have enrolled myself in medical school by now.
But I'd have to prepare myself to deal with the astonishing ignorance the medical community STILL has regarding tick-borne diseases.
But hey, you never know. It could happen.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
The name taurine is derived from Taurus, the ox. It was originally discovered as a component of ox bile. In light of that I don't know if it would effect taurine levels at all.
I did find it helpful for digestion of fats when I was having serious issues. I took it along with betaine HCL and digestive enzymes.
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Razzle
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Beaches,
I would not take it unless you are sure your CBS mutation is fully compensated for, and even then, I'd only start with a teensy tiny bit in the middle of a meal that contains fat (I wouldn't take it with a meal that has little to no fat)...
I can't tolerate any animal-derived glandular products (ox bile, pancreatin, adrenal cortex, etc.) and I think it is because of my CBS mutation.
Lipase (fat digesting enzyme) is different because it is not bile. Bile has various ingredients in it that help mix fats in with other foods so that the enzymes can work more effectively.
If you want a good substitute, take lecithin. There are other health benefits of lecithin, too, besides helping support healthy fat digestion...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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beaches
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posted
Hmm didn't dawn on me that taurine is derived from Taurus the bull. Hmm...indeed! Can you tell me what you mean by "serious issues?"
And Razzle, thanks for your reply. Would you mind explaining to me what it means to have the CBS mutation fully compensated for? We are doing the folate and the methyl B 12 shots, but nothing else. I will look into the lecithin.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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I'm not sure I can answer your question but I have some input. They use this in Mexico and Latin America to help when one has a de-regulation of bile, either not producing enough bile or it goes in the wrong direction. I know Dr. K also uses mimosa puddica for this. I tried Ox-bile when I initially got sick, I didn't feel that it helped too much but I think everyone is different. Take care,
Posts: 697 | From CA | Registered: Dec 2011
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I had a bad time with Biaxin that precipitated a crash. Only took it for 4 days, but one of the things that happened was it shut down my digestion.
The best theory I have is that it triggered a herx which flared up into gastroparesis. Things were just not moving or breaking down properly.
I noticed halfway through a meal with grilled meats that nothing seemed to be happening in there and the food felt "frozen".
Anyway, lots of other symptoms in there as well, but suffice it to say I had to eat mostly pureed vegetables for a while and added all of those digestive aids to break things down: ox bile, enzymes, betaine HCL as well as lots of probiotics (yogurt and fermented vegetables).
It was very scary but eventually I could add new things here and there and now I can eat relatively normal again. At the time though meat would sit and block my stomach and raw vegetables would leave looking the same as they went in. Too much fiber would just get stuck.
Posts: 131 | From Neptune, NJ | Registered: Oct 2012
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lax mom
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posted
My digestive enzymes have Ox bile in it. I have no gallbladder, so they really help alot.
Glandulars are high in purines and taurine, which stresses the enzyme pathway that deals with sulfites. The CBS mutation also stresses the enzymes that deal with sulfites.
So the combination results in overloading the sulfite & related enzymes (molybdenum cofactor enzyme & it's child enzymes).
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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beaches
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Thanks mlg for your input. Can I ask how docs in Mexico and LA determine when someone has a deregulation of bile? I�ve never heard of that. Thanks for the info re: Dr. K�s use of mimosa pudica. I never would have made that connection, so something else for me to investigate.
Hmm�.biaxin is something that just does not agree with anyone in our family. So that�s one thing that�s gone out to pasture. I am so sorry to hear about your GI stuff. IMO that�s the hardest thing to get through and fix. Hope you are feeling better these days.
Lax, do you know if you have a CBS and/or SUOX mutation? Thx for letting me know the ox bile helped you.
Hi Razzle, thanks so much for all your info on all this MTHFR/CBS stuff. I�ve ready Amy Yasko�s info. It�s like learning Greek. I still don�t really understand it.
What I�ve learned is that ox bile due to its inherent taurine level might not be a good thing in light of a CBS677 mutation and an unknown SUOX mutation. I remember reading that molybdenum could be a good supplement. Have no idea what the heck a child enzyme is.
But I will continue reading and learning about all this as best I can. Thanks for your help along the way.
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lax mom
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beaches: I don't know if I have any of those mutations yet. I'm waiting on 23andme results. (I hope the data reports on those mutations).
All I know so far is that I'm heterozygous for A1298C from the MTHFR test.
Razzle
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posted
Beaches,
Yes, it is like learning greek! I've been reading and studying this stuff for years, and I still keep figuring out new things...
A child enzyme is an enzyme that is dependent upon or related to another enzyme.
For example, the molybdenum cofactor enzyme (MOCO) is a "parent enzyme" to three "child enzymes" (sulfite oxidase (SUOX), xanthine oxidase, and aldehyde dehydrogenase).
The three "child enzymes" depend on the "parent enzyme" to function correctly. If the parent enzyme has a problem, then the child enzyme will also experience problems.
But it is my understanding that a child enzyme can have a problem but that won't affect the function of the parent enzyme. I could be wrong on this, however...still learning myself!
I hope this helps...take care,
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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beaches
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Razzle, I just hope you keep studying this stuff, and continue to translate because now learning Greek seems easy in comparison.
I thought molybdenum supplementation was warranted when there was a CBS mutation, but apparently not? based on your example.
Maybe this is more like learning Mandarin? Or Russian? Or Latin? Or all 3 at once?
Thanks so much for your input.
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beaches
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lax, I'd be interested in what you find out from the 23andme results.
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Razzle
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posted
Yes, molybdenum is needed by the molybdenum cofactor enzyme to process sulfites.
CBS produces sulfites & ammonia. If mutated, it makes all stuff going through methylation cycle turn into sulfites & ammonia, and does it more quickly than if there was no mutation (hence the "open gate" description by Dr. Yasko).
The sulfites (toxic, hard to eliminate) then must be converted to sulfate (non-toxic, easier to eliminate) by sulfite oxidase, but this enzyme depends on molybdenum cofactor to function correctly.
Therefore, if one has CBS mutation, molybdenum is most definitely needed.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Catgirl
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posted
Taurine makes me dizzy.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Hi, Bile dis-regulation...I think the doctors in Mexico and Latin America study it in medical school.
Here is a link which is very informative. Sorry it is in Spanish, but it states that they treat it with different remedies such as grinding grapefruit skin and lemon making mixing it and taking it in AM, also, cedron bark (quassia) and pochote tree boil like a gallon with it let it cool and drink it in AM before eating. They use it as a tea. They use artemisia tea. They use ox-bile to supplement and the article suggest other things.
Bile is suppose to eliminate microbes, parasites, and bacteria.
posted
I'm sorry. I didn't answer how they can tell if you have it. They can tell by your symptoms. You vomit something very bitter (it is bile). You don't always have this symptom. You have a 'latido' (you feel your heartbeat or a large pulsing sound) in the top of your stomach (this is where your stomach connects to the esophagus). You have a yellow tone. You don't break down fats, etc. I told my fird LLMD well he was the NP that I had 'bilis' and he is like what is that. I explained and then he had the results of my stool test that showed everything I told him. I was not breaking down fats and some other thing...I can't remember now, but he was a little surprised by what I told him because I had not seeing any of the results. Yet he said everything I said was very accurate. I don't understand why doctors here don't know anything about this. He gave me something with ox-bile to breakdown fats...
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