posted
Never heard Dr K mention this, maybe it's new.
It looks like it's got some good stuff in it. The liposomal encapsulation probably helps a lot with absorption too.
Interesting they didn't include Cat's Claw.
I'm a bit unenthusiastic about these combo formulas though as it doesn't allow for any flexibility. Technically artemisia is supposed to be pulsed and I wonder what the effects of taking it continuously long term would be.
"When patients ask me how long they should take an herbal regimen, my answer is always the same "As long as you want to be healthy"" - Dr K
Sort of an admission from one of the top Lyme doctors that that few people's immune systems recover to the point to keep Lyme in remission without help.
Some of these herb companies are going to make a fortune off of Lyme patients, $50 a month for life.
Of course I'm probably paying $300 a month for supplements right now, but hopefully not forever.
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305
posted
On my FB group they said it was a fake. Dr K said he had nothing to do with it.
That doesn't mean the ingredients aren't effective - but then if it's not endorsed by Dr K as they claim it's hard to know if those ingredients are actually in it.
posted
Mods: sorry for posting names; shall never happen again. (assumed people of that level of respect were, well nevermind...)
Anyway, I've been thinking about herbals long-term. Most of the vitamins I've taken have a concoction of herbs, so it'd be no different or worse, I suppose, in spirit.
Many LLMDs things I've read, in addition to patients, and even things seen is episode 2 of a lyme documentary (am I allowed to post its title???) indicate herbs may work long term.
Hoping for a silver bullet, because six weeks of doxy has eradicated 2 of my debilitating symptoms, but not touched the others. And, as you all know, its not 1,2,4 things bringing us down, it is about 12.
Posts: 200 | From Ohio | Registered: Apr 2016
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I guess I understand the blanket rule about no LLMD names as some are still "in the closet". Dr. K's whole career is based on Lyme though and his treatment guide is linked to from his homepage.
I think he probably is more concerned about these fake product endorsements than being mentioned on Lymenet.
Posts: 131 | From CO | Registered: Jul 2015
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Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305
posted
OP, I know this is a somewhat controversial subject but I really think people who are genuinely ill with Lyme should be on abx at least at first.
It's a bacterial infection and it's just too serious to mess around with. Dr. H has said 70 percent of his difficult patients got well doing Cowden but this was *after* abx. A lot of people who post on boards say they're doing well on herbs -- *after* abx.
No one likes being on them. I'm miserable on them frankly. But I would give it a lot longer than six weeks.
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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posted
Well just look at the link to the video I posted before. The product itself might be fake but the clip of Dr. K is from some past interview. He says at 13:50 that 62% of patients fail on antibiotics and are worse off afterwards.
I'm not anti-antibiotics. If Lyme treatment was as understood as TB where you have to take a specific combination of antibiotics for 6-12 months but the cure rate is very high, I'd do it. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.TBS.CURE.ZS
I just think with Lyme the LLMDs are shooting in the dark and people often emerge damaged from the treatment and no better off.
If I know I'm going to have to treat for years I'd rather be using a less lethal weapon so my body can handle it.
Posts: 131 | From CO | Registered: Jul 2015
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posted
Well yeah, I'll do some amount of antibiotics... are bodies and minds (not brain, minds) have limits...
As bad as doxy has been for six months, I would take it for a year if I *HAD* to.
I guess we'll see.
That's why I'm hoping I can take cephalosporins... assuming I don't react allergically, I don't see those causing too many other problems (god willing I don't get C-diff).
Other ABX (certain ones, most ones) long term (or even short) are not really an option for me.
Oh well. Life is life...
And, LOL, didn't know this was a fake product. I guess you can't believe everything you see in an internet ad!
Posts: 200 | From Ohio | Registered: Apr 2016
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Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
62 percent of people fail on antibiotics and are worse off afterwards?
Aside from Dr. K, is there any documentation of that?
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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bluelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 47170
posted
Interesting discussion,
op i did read that caution should be used with rocephin with people with penicillin allergys but that most do ok.
i think it is worse than tb and the arguement that will ther be cake made about would you treat mrsa or pnumoniae with herbs?..i am going to throw everything in the book at this superbug....
22 peptides and strep or staph has 4 or 5...how many remissions does dr k or buhner have ? And how many does dr h or dr j have ?...nobody knows they throw what the got and guess..i do know i was a mostly whole before i took antibiotic for ear infection...
now i am going to use the big uns to try and save myself ? I wish o wish a few months of hell would cure this super syphilis !....what choice do we have ...treat half ass and hope ..treat to the wall and hope ...
It is individual and everyone has a key to their lock...if i wernt as sick i would dance and consider every alternative ...i went straight to c and skipped a nd b now i add an x.
has any one ever read mitchells posts on mdj?...he is the man . There is no pancea. No silver bullet .but shooting silver into ny veins hit something i tell you!
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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I have been told that this post ostensibly from Dr. K. to FXHerbals facebook page was from a FAKE Dr. K facebook page!! Does anyone know anything about a FAKE DR. K facebook page?? It seems as though someone may be trying to discredit Dr. K. by posing as him-- or they may be trying to discredit FXHerbals for some unknown reason..
Here is his comment on the "FXHerbals" facebook page (it may be deleted by now, but I posted the original): https://www.facebook.com/FxHerbals/
Dear Friends, the herbs used in the new product called FxVital can be sometime useful in the treatment on chronic infections. However, in the case of this product, I have NOT been involved in the sourcing of the ingredients, nor have I been able to test this product in the laboratory or on patients. Therefore I CANNOT make any statement regarding the efficacy or safety of this product, as it has been suggested by a recent marketing campaign that is flooding the web. Please help me to spread this message across. Many thanks and blessings to you all. --Dr. K
[ 05-18-2016, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: WakeUp ]
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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I just talked to the president of the company selling Vital. He has been very sick with Lyme and coinfections for many years. This product (Vital) is a labor of love for him, he says.
He says that he is being harassed by a woman from the UK who is posing as Dr. K-- and who has a fake Dr. K website and facebook page-- and he says that the quote posted above from his website---- is not from Dr. K.!!!!!!
Wow--- so many Lyme liars out there--- and so many levels of lying going on---- it leaves your head spinning.
We both agreed that this woman may be from the alphabet agencies-- and is probably not in the business of selling supplements.
Apparently she tried to get Dr. K to endorse one of her formulas--- probably to discredit him by creating a bad formula!!! He also mentioned that Dr. K believes that she is not just a simple supplement marketer-- but is instead some kind of a "plant.."
He asked us to call Sophia --- Dr. K's pharmacy to verify what he has said to me --- and he says that he used the herb sources recommended by Dr. K and Dr. K's pharmacist.
He says that he and Dr. K are friends and that he has changed the wording on his site to clearly state "Inspired by" Dr. K. in order to avoid confusion.
Liposomal artemisinin is a main ingredient ---- the doctor working on artemisinin won a Nobel prize.
Apparently artemisinin is very effective against protozoa like babesia, but it also boosts the immune system. I was not aware that it was effective against Borrelia, though.
If anyone finds out anything else-- please update. Thanks
I bought the product, and I have been taking it for several days now and I decided not to cancel it until I have found out all the facts.. since Artemisiin does work for me, and I had wanted to try crytolepis.
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Well the webpage says "Formulated by Dr. K" and has these blurbs that clearly are intended to make it look like the product was created and endorsed by Dr. K.
It seems there are all these shady companies in the Lyme world that try to take advantage of desperate patients. When anybody tries to question them they blame the criticism on agents of government agencies. This of course plays well to anxiety ridden paranoid neurolymies.
I don't doubt that the company president has Lyme and the product may actually be somewhat effective. But at $50/oz it seems like another Byron White type approach with insane pricing for something that is relatively cheap to produce.
Wake Up, I'm really surprised that after your amazingly comprehensive anti spirochetal compounds thread you haven't tried more of these herbs individually.
Posts: 131 | From CO | Registered: Jul 2015
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- One huge problem with that webpage is that looks like it's Dr. K's. There is no banner at the top identifying the website. Only very small print at the bottom : Fx Herbals LLC.
Very slick trick. I can see that this would be very confusing. Dishonest and deceiving use of his image and placement of words.
Another point I don't want to see slide:
Someone posted many links above: " . . . 62% of patients fail on antibiotics and are worse off afterwards. . . ."
Sadly, due to the politics and roadblocks tossed as patients with lack of knowledgeable doctors, etc.
most of the time, the treatment is just wrong - not the right kind, right dose and antibiotics, alone, are never going to address the cystic form of lyme. Nor some of the coinfections.
So "antibiotics" done wrong are going to fail for many, if not most. And most don't get to a LLMD for the proper start to the full combination / rotation approach -- and many also don't have the liver/kidney & adrenal supports that are essential to success -- or the probiotics.
Some may not know alcohol, smoking will usually lean into any approach not working. It is hard to suddenly be faced with the fact that even the very best health habits may still leave one wanting.
But the biggest contributor to failure is not getting the proper education about what proper protocol is - from whatever corner of medicine, the science of lyme / coinfections is usually ignored -- and understandably if no one has been told how complex this all is.
Just taking one kind of pill for a couple weeks is what we all grow up to think is enough. And it can be for some infections / conditions. It's just not for something as complex as lyme, though. Nor will taking a series of antibiotics just here and there with no thought to the WAY lyme works and the complex approach required.
So, when anyone says "antibiotics failed" that might not be a properly administered multi-faceted protocol at all.
As well, even the best individually planned pharmaceutical protocol may not be the right one - and it never is if there is no liver / kidney or adrenal supports, etc.
A good thing, then, that many LLMD are aware and encourage other approaches, individually assessed at various times -- all with the science of how lyme / TDB work as the foundation of knowledge when approaching any plan.
And "proper" treatment protocol can be a puzzle, too, even with the most knowledgeable LLMD or LL ND. Each person's case is unique and there are many variables. I really do wish everyone had access the best true lyme literate doctors.
It can be confusing when so many products now are trying to take advantage. While many can't get to a LL doctor for all answers, the next links set is a good guide to how to assess products, the basic books for the foundation, etc.
This goes for SOURCE of products, too. -
[ 05-18-2016, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- For those considering complementary support methods / or other avenues entirely:
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by project: Well the webpage says "Formulated by Dr. K" and has these blurbs that clearly are intended to make it look like the product was created and endorsed by Dr. K.
It seems there are all these shady companies in the Lyme world that try to take advantage of desperate patients. When anybody tries to question them they blame the criticism on agents of government agencies. This of course plays well to anxiety ridden paranoid neurolymies.
I don't doubt that the company president has Lyme and the product may actually be somewhat effective. But at $50/oz it seems like another Byron White type approach with insane pricing for something that is relatively cheap to produce.
Wake Up, I'm really surprised that after your amazingly comprehensive anti spirochetal compounds thread you haven't tried more of these herbs individually.
I have tried artemisinin individually, and it worked for me, although I believe it boosted my ocular pressure..
However I wanted to try LIPOSOMAL artemisinin in a formula for convenience. Perhaps I was taken in by this guy and his claimed endorsement by Dr. K. -- oh well-- I will call the Sophia pharmacy and find out what is up-- just to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Also, Project-- claiming that Lymies are paranoid is a bit extreme, and could be considered by most people to be hostile to the Lyme community.... This type of insult is known as an " ad hominen" attack.
Its quite clear that you disagree there there is any "biological weapons" (Fort Detrick) connection to Lyme disease--- and you are of course entitled to your opinion-- but there is no need to insult the many people here who have done research on this issue, including the illegal Tuskeegee spirochete experiments on US citizens.
The book Lab 257 provides convincing evidence about the biological weapons origin of Lyme disease at Plum Island.
You can choose to ignore this well researched book at your own peril-- but many of us here do not-- and we are not paranoid. The government has routinely tested biological weapons on the population over the past century--- I am surprised that you are unaware of these many biological weapons tests, Project? Perhaps you are uniformed?
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions --- but there is no need to insult people's sanity. Why not argue facts, rather than hurl the ad hominem, "paranoid neurolyme" words? Thanks.
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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But that said, after looking at the website again, I do think that the marketing on the page is deceptive and tries to make it seem that Dr. K. has fully endorsed and formulated the product--- so I **may** cancel my order.. I haven't decided yet. The formula does seem good, but Im not sure whether this company has had experience with herbs.
Integrity is very important in business.
[ 05-23-2016, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: WakeUp ]
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Dr. K talking in detail about this herbal formula (on the fxherbal youtube page), but Dr. K does not refer to fxherbal by name, so I am not sure they had his permission to post this video on their youtube page:
Upon watching the video, it does seem as though this formula is very specifically endorsed by Dr. K as being useful for chronically ill patients with Lyme...
I also know for a fact that there was a fake Dr. K facebook page which was harassing the owner of the FXherbal company--- and that this fake page was then taken down when it was exposed. Strange....
The only remaining concern is how qualified this company is as a manufacturer of herbal products..and how much experience they have with herbal preparations-- which I am not sure about.
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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