posted
Hi--I just read in another thread that even one Tylenol depletes the body's glutathione.
Ugh.
My husband can't take NSAIDS as he donated a kidney (before he developed Lyme symptoms). He takes Tylenol every night in order to be able to sleep through his joint pain.
So it looks like we'll need to find alternatives. What pain reduction solutions have some of you found to be effective?
Thanks, everyone.
Posts: 431 | From New England | Registered: Dec 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
While acetaminophen can hurt the liver & ears, Ibuprofen can damage the kidneys & ears, too, so be careful with that. Liver support is always vital to help reduce pain:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links. These kinds of ANTIOXIDANTS generally help reduce inflammation and that helps reduce pain.
Topic: Looking for long term pain management -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Berberine has been a wonderful help for me with pain relief. Just wonderful. I cannot live without it (and have tried several times and always get much worse off of it).
BERBERINE – LINKS SET -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Can't speak personally on this as I have not found a way to include this but sure would if possible - very impressed with what I've read about it. Carol in PA has often posted what a fabulous help this is not just in pain relief but with real healing potential:
SOTA LIGHTWORKS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- A gluten-free diet has been the number one thing that helped me, too. I am a genetic celiac but even in those who are not, while tackling lyme & co., it's one thing that many report to be of help.
Being diary-free & corn-free also important for me. Some find dropping soy helps but I can do organic soy like tofu or miso, just not soy milk (too many additives).
No GMO, and mostly organic foods also make a huge difference in my pain level. How & Why:
We've been on a gluten-free, dairy-free, and organic diet (with only organic corn & soy) for nearly 3 months now. And lower glycemic foods. My husband (R)'s symptoms have noticeably improved in the past month. Except for the pain.
We also got most of the basic + neurological supplements on the Burrascano guidelines, including the Magnesium supplement.
But after ordering it I read that Magnesium supplementation may not be a good idea if you have low kidney function (R has 50% function--though it's stable, thankfully).
R's changing LLMDs, so we'd rather not take any chances with Mag until we ask his new doctor in 2-3 weeks.
We'll certainly look up Corydalis and Berberine, though.
Thanks a million! And thanks for those kidney and liver support links too.
Posts: 431 | From New England | Registered: Dec 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Magnesium is still an essential mineral. And lyme usually causes a deficiency.
With any kidney issue, the doses need to be divided with a full glass of water - and within certain mg bounds - but still required if deficient, somehow.
An intracellular blood test can help determine.
Also, it may be best to get magnesium from food sources and even powdered greens so that it's balanced with food and more slowly taken up. The amounts of magnesium are not sky high but a very good overall source of key nutrients as a group:
Salvia miltiorrhiza is also called Dan Shen or Danshen -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.
Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients, etc.
-- Body work: UPLEDGER, FELDENKRAIS. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
NAC protects the liver. Google - NAC, tylenol -
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It's true, NAC is a very good helper. I'm troubled by what I heard last week:
NAC cannot protect the liver enough, though, to protect ears from damage according to two doctors interviewed on a rerun of a Dr. Oz program last week. Their test results were a wake-up call, showing a great deal of hearing loss from both acetaminophen & ibuprofen.
They suggest taking none, but no more than one single dose of acetaminophen per week (yes, one per week), even if taking NAC. That's the part that was sad to hear, that NAC did not protect the kidneys or ears as much as I might have thought.
That program can be searched with the detail above if anyone wants to find the studies - many participants over quite some time. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Keebler-what is the amount of berberine that you take each day that helps with pain?
I just got some today-don't know how much to take daily...it says 1-3 caps per day...
The pain in my legs is awful-I don't want to take my arthrotec unless there are no other options.
Also, how long did you take it before noticing a pain reduction?
Thanks Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
My DH takes Fish Oil and MSM for his joint pain, but I don't know if either are safe for someone with compromised kidney function.
Buhner recommends Nettle Leaf 1200mg/day for joint pain and to protect joints from damage caused by Lyme/co's. I found it very helpful to take nettle leaf myself...
But again, I do not know what is safe when kidney function is compromised...best to ask a Naturopathic physician or master herbalist...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by GretaM: Keebler-what is the amount of berberine that you take each day that helps with pain?
I just got some today-don't know how much to take daily...it says 1-3 caps per day...
Also, how long did you take it before noticing a pain reduction?
I started with one capsule of Berberine per day, for three days, until I was sure that I wasn't going to have an allergic reaction. I was taking 250 mg capsules from GoodState, that I got as a free sample.
Then I moved up to two per day, then three per day. After about two weeks, I ordered the 500 mg capsules, and took two per day.
This was about a year ago. I wasn't quite sure what would happen, so I didn't change my other supplements and kept watching my symptoms.
I think it was a couple weeks, when I got up to two capsules of the 500 mg daily, that I noticed my joint and body pain seemed less, and I was having fewer bad headaches.
About two months in, my reflux was noticeably reduced and I had less stress incontinence. I was still taking Excedrin or tylenol as needed throughout the day, but I felt much better.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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