posted
Someone told me that the only reason there's biofilm around the bacteria is because of abx resistance.
Wondering if this is fact?
Posts: 415 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2012
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Not true. Many kinds of germs make biofilm, even in the absence of any treatment. It's what they do to survive. Sort of like their "skin" or "nest" - this protective action just comes naturally to them.
They'd have to protect against an immune system, anyway, even if no treatment was given. Though lyme can "dismantle" or "flip" and evade even the best immune system, spirochetes still do their biofilm thing. Then with treatment added, they go into their cystic form for added protection.
Biofilm is not the same as the cystic form of lyme. Although some of the same things used to address biofilm can also be helpful against the cystic form. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Ok well that's good to know. I have a friend that is very sick with Lyme and doing homeopathy for treatment.
My friend is pushing me to stop abx and try homeopathy. Her dr told her that biofilm is only a concern when using abx as this will put up an immunity resistance that increases as you take the abx.
The dr also told my friend that biofilm are not an issue with taking homeopaths. My friend then proceeded to try to school me on all this.
I knew that this didn't sound right and my friend won't listen to me as she's very against abx. I'm worried her homeopath dr doesn't know squat about Lyme.
Posts: 415 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2012
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Well, resistance is a concern, of course, and that's why antibiotics must not be used alone. And also why certain herbal formulas can help offset resistance.
By adding a herb, even as support, it's much harder for resistance to take shape. Too complex for the germ to "read" - and also why frequently changing the combination is important.
If your friend is experiencing success and moving forward toward remission, great. If not, there may be more to consider.
Homeopathy, alone, is not usually adequate. This is not to hold over your friend, rather, you might suggest that she find an ILADS-educated LL ND (naturopathic doctor) who is also trained in homeopathy if she is intent on using that approach.
Some homeopathic approaches can be helpful especially for symptom relief but full-on treatment will take a combination of methods. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You might share this with your friend. Further down here, there is a post about the use of homeopathy and links to two different books with that part of the focus.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.
Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIOPHOTON - BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Pulling that homeopathic post out from the set, note that homeopathics were not used alone, but in combination:
13-minute video - by ColdUnderstanding Jan 14, 2012
- after other treatment failures, one young woman's successful experience with homeopathy & herbal support treatment.
Just stay with her as she takes us through how she succeeded. She said it "worked miracles" - very authentic. Very hopeful.
(Parental caution for those with young children near your computer as you watch: there are few "adult" words near the end. Totally in context and within reason, yet perhaps not best for young ears.) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Many believe you can not be cured of Lyme without antibiotics. I personally would not leave antibiotics for homeopathy unless they were causing extreme adverse events. I would add homeopathy to antibiotics if you were under treatment with antibiotics for a long time with a LLMD and had hit a plateau.
Posts: 360 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
Thanks! What is concerning to me is that the homeopath dr told her that biofilm are not a concern when using homeopaths and they are ONLY a concern when using abx.
I'm not against homeopaths. I may eventually try them but for now I'm doing abx. I also take herbs as directed by my dr to help with resistance.
I just really don't understand where this dr gets off telling his patients that abx are a big no no and that everyone's bodies should be able to fight the bacteria.
My friend is being led astray. She will not listen to me and won't tolerate the fact that I am taking abx. Ugh
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Biofilms are not an issue for homeopathy...the remedies work so differently than abx or herbs.
Homeopathy works via quantum electromagnetics...so it is operating on a different level than herbs or abx.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
If homeopaths work so well then why do I not hear more about them and the success? I want to know if they really cure Lyme.
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
It takes a very, very skilled homeopath to treat a complex case like Lyme. There are very few homeopaths skilled enough to really do it right.
Read the book, "The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease" by Peter Alex for case reports of successful homeopathic treatment of Lyme.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Ok thank you
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
I would not quit abx for homeopathy if you are not having really adverse reactions. Homeopathy never did anything for me and it is expensive. It is way out in left field as far as science goes. There is plenty of science supporting biofilm, which is everywhere.
I hate it when people promise something is going to cure you "naturally". These are stealth pathogens, not the common cold. If there was a natural cure, people would have discovered it centuries ago and syphilis (the closest relative to borellia) would not have been a terminal illness that drove people mad before they finally died.
Protomyxzoa produces massive amounts of biofilm and no combo of herbs or homeopathic remedy is going to control it, much less cure it. We want to believe in wonders and miracles. I spent thousands of dollars on them and nothing worked.
If you want to add something to your protocol to reduce biofilm, go on a low fat vegan diet.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Thank you nefferdun. It's helpful to hear from someone's personal experience.
My friend won't even tolerate me talking about abx. Now she's mad at me for not doing things her way (homeopaths).
Yes I think people are grasping at straws these days. But your right if it were that easy we wouldn't be sick.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- YOU don't have to talk to your friend about what you think about her choices but do try to convey the importance of her seeking other expert opinions, and those who are ILADS-educated so they know the science of lyme.
Most LL NDs are ILADS-educated. She sounds like she might more readily consult a LL ND than a LLMD right now. And most LL NDs (if not all) would never rely solely on homeopathy. -
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I wish I could get a bumper sticker that said, "A Naturopathic Doctor Saved My Life".
LLND's are worth their weight in gold.
In BC, ND's are able to prescribe abx.
So not only are antibiotics used for treatment, but herbs, homeopathy, acupuncture and IV vitamin C etc.
It is the best of all worlds, as far as I'm concerned.
(But I'm biased, because my ND saved (ing) my life. )
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
That's awesome Greta! I went to an ND for four years straight and got nowhere. Sounds like yours knows what he's doing.
Keebler, this dr she's seeing does rely soley on homeopaths. I'm just concerned. My friend went completely blind and paralyzed one day. Very scary :/
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