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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Why people with Lyme can't drink alcohol (article)

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Author Topic: Why people with Lyme can't drink alcohol (article)
Lymetoo
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http://whatislyme.com/why-people-with-lyme-cannot-drink-alcohol/

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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Thanks. Excellent explanation.

More detail about excess porphyrins, PORPHYRIA & "Secondary" Porphyria as it can related to chronic stealth infections -and what helps.


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91842?#000000

Topic: what type of M.D. tests for PORPHYRIA
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Keebler
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Just read the comments. Oh, wow! I could not believe my eyes. For anyone with lyme who might think it's okay - even good - to drink any alcohol as two comments suggest, they are very, very wrong.

Please refer back up to the article about the toxicity and liver damage - and review from other sources how the liver works and what happens when it's damaged. Lyme, alone, can severely damage a liver and that is often before it's even been diagnosed.

A damaged live can be further damaged - even "die" when it meets alcohol.
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Lymetoo
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It would only kill spirochetes IN THE BLOOD. So that will not help much since most spirochetes are in the tissues.

Dr B says that drinking alcohol and lack of adequate rest are the two main reasons patients do not get well from Lyme.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I found that statement questionable and think something got lsot in translation - but didn't have the energy to mention that.

The detail about the liver & toxic excess porphyrin load sure seems enough to stop anyone in their tracks, I would think.
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desertwind
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Alcohol? What's that???
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ookearaoo12
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I was going to ask this question the other day. I had one margarita and felt TERRIBLE the next like I had 10 drinks.
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GretaM
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Great link and great topic!

I agree.

When I got bit in 2002, I started getting hangovers around the same time.

It's to the point now, where I have to do the warm water thing with my cryptolepsis.

Because if I take a TEASPOON, just a teaspoon, the alcohol affects me right away and my legs go funny. I literally get that tipsy feeling off a teaspoon.

Honestly if it was the 1910's I would be a teotaller. (sp?)

Alcohol is bad news.

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Porsche
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Hmm......guess I don't have Lyme any more then, cuz alcohol doesn't bother me in the least. Even if I'm on Flagyl, it doesn't cause me any problems.

Sounds to me like Flagyl is the way to go. Take the Flagyl at least an hour before drinking a glass of wine so that it will turn those cysts into chetes. Then when the alcohol gets into your bloodstream, it gets everything! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

If you do a search, you will find that most people can drink while taking Flagyl, It's just a warning that people have to be made aware of, because some people will have a bad reaction.

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Lymetoo
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You can become VERY ill if you mix flagyl and alcohol. VERY.

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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Rumigirl
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Alcohol with abx??? Alcohol with flagyl??? Yikes!

Aside from the flagyl issues, which are HUGE, aside from the liver issues, which are also huge, there is the Candida issue, which is a major issue when on abx and when the immune system is under siege.

It's really shooting yourself in the foot to drink when you have Bb and are on abx.

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Porsche
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quote:



Lack of disulfiram-like reaction with metronidazole and ethanol

BACKGROUND: Metronidazole, an effective antianaerobic agent, has been reported to have aversive properties when ingested with ethanol.

This is thought to be due to the blocking of hepatic aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH) enzyme followed by the accumulation of acetaldehyde in the blood.

However, based on animal studies and on only 10 human case reports, the existence of metronidazole-related disulfiram-like reaction has recently been questioned.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the possible disulfiram-like properties of metronidazole and ethanol in human volunteers.

METHODS: Of 12 healthy male volunteers in this double-blind study, one-half received metronidazole for 5 days and the other half received placebo.

All volunteers received ethanol 0.4 g/kg at the beginning of the study. Repeated blood samples were taken every 20 minutes for 4 hours, and blood acetaldehyde and ethanol concentrations were determined.

Blood pressure, heart rate, and skin temperature were also measured every 20 minutes for objective signs of a possible disulfiram-like reaction.

Volunteers also completed a questionnaire focusing on the subjective signs of disulfiram-like reaction.

RESULTS: Metronidazole did not raise blood acetaldehyde or have any objective or subjective adverse effects when used together with ethanol.

CONCLUSIONS: This study shows that metronidazole does not have an effect on blood acetaldehyde concentrations when ingested with ethanol and does not have any objective or subjective disulfiram-like properties.

However, it is possible that disulfiram-like reaction can occur in some subgroups and by other mechanisms than the inhibition of hepatic ALDH.


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None of the participants noted any dyspnea, flushing, vertigo, or headache during the test.

Interestingly, the heart rates for the metronidazole group tended to be about 10bpm lower than the control group throughout the test.

I don’t know that this is clinically significant, but it is interesting:


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So we’ve got some age-old advice that doesn’t stand up when tested properly, and we have a proposed mechanism of action that doesn’t hold up to closer scrutiny, either. Where does that leave us?

It leaves us with a couple things… Some people experience GI distress while on Flagyl. Sometimes they vomit.

Sometimes they drink alcohol and vomit. Sometimes they drink alcohol and don’t vomit. That tells us that:

Flagyl is hard on the stomach. It’s a difficult medication to tolerate for a good percentage of folks, regardless of its effect on blood acetaldehyde levels.

Flagyl is not a disulfiram-like drug, and should not be referred to as such.

Flagyl will not absolutely cause the vomiting associated with Antabuse when consumed in conjunction with alcohol. Pharmacists should stop counseling that it will.

Adverse events are too often attributed to metronidazole because it is convenient, and “everyone knows” that alcohol and Flagyl are a recipe for disaster.

Flagyl remains an unpleasant drug to take; its side effects are real and often severe, and should not be downplayed.

Patients should be educated about these side effects, and how to minimize them. Avoiding alcohol is one way to do this.

Taking it with food is probably more effective. Doing both is obviously better than doing just one of the two.

It is my suspicion that early researchers thought there was a link between metronidazole and alcoholism due to the medication’s side effects. Taste perversion. Smell perversion.

These things will cause folks to avoid certain foods for the duration of the drug therapy. Alcohol is one of those things. It’s coincidental, and its usefulness in the real world is questionable.





[ 09-05-2013, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Catgirl
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So THAT's how I kept the lyme down all those years of going undiagnosed! Unfortunately I was bit many times later and got a higher load.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Keebler
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The bottom line is still the liver: with any infection it can be damaged. With a stealth infection like lyme, the liver very often becomes severely damaged and there are just not tests that even come close to showing all the ways the dysfunction occurs - until too late.

And that damage to the liver, in turn, can relate to damage of nerve cells throughout the body (including brain and heart, and kidneys).

Alcohol can make that much worse in so many ways.

Our LIVER & our KIDNEYS are our best "gateway" chances at getting well.

They have to be at the top of their game or we will never be there again. Regardless of the treatment path chosen, if the liver and kidneys are in any way less than they should be, success will the severely compromised.

And treatment, itself, is very hard on liver / kidneys. Not as hard as untreated lyme/TBD, but still, it's a huge load added. Liver support is essential and can offer some protection.

Yet, even the best liver / kidney support in the world cannot compensate for alcoholic beverages bathing these organs.

GLUCOSE issues are also a huge consideration. Lyme can predispose a person to diabetes, so the very best in nutritional glucose stability is required during treatment. Sudden surges and drops can be very damaging in so many ways to ANY body but, especially, one that is battling lyme.
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Keebler
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CHEMISTRY

When alcohol is taken with any Rx - or any supplement - all things change. That Rx or that supplement are no longer what they were intended to be. All bets are off.

And, when alcohol is mixed with any Rx inside the body, the combined load is even harsher to the kidneys and liver.

As a method of pain relief, this can spell disaster but one that may not even be apparent right away.

There are other ways to approach pain relief. Many other ways. Alcohol may seem the only choice but there are always other ways, safer ways.
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Beverly
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Alcohol is bad news, it damages your brain cells. I have never been able to tolerate alcohol.

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God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion.

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