posted
I finally saw a cardiologist..... he talked to my LLMD. He doesn't think I have Lyme and cannot believe how long I have been on medication... yadda yadda yadda. I talked to my LLMD on the phone and he was very rude towards her.
However, I am using this doctor to check my heart out, then if he says everything is okay, I am bailing. He is doing a stress test and echocardiogram tomorrow, then I have having a device put on me for 24 hours to monitor my heart.
He is also an internist and a master hypnosis, and believes he could eliminate most of my symptoms with it.....
Has anyone ever gotten hypnosis done on them? Did it help?
Even though this guy has been stubborn with Lyme... he has been the nicest doctor I have seen so far. I spent 2 hours with him telling him my whole story and all my symptoms. Then the other night he called me and talked to me on the phone for an hour. I have never had a doctor take that much interest in me... not even my LLMD. Idk what do think anymore.
Posts: 251 | From Baltimore | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged |
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
Umm...he didn't believe you have Lyme (dismissive), was rude to your LLMD (unprofessional, maybe condescending), called himself a Master Hypnotist (I'm so great!), said he could cure you (I'm God!), and called you at home and talked for an hour (stalk much?).
Throw in the "nice" and "interested," and the fact that you are now confused, and he sounds like a Narcissist with ulterior motives.
You inclination to get your testing and bail seems right on.
I tried hypnosis for my Lyme-related insomnia and got nowhere with that symptom, FWIW.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I have training as a hypnotherapist. This person is not credible.
One of the first rules is that symptoms that are medically based should not be encouraged to be "thought" away and that for even pain, a person should first be directed for medical evaluation. It's unethical to try to "remove" a symptom that is there for a reason - and symptoms have a purpose regarding diagnostics and finding adequate treatment.
I can't explain it in the best wording, though. The training I did was decades ago but the ethics still remain and he is misusing, demeaning, etc.
However, certain skills learned during hypnosis can absolutely help manage symptoms, including pain. Creative visualization, etc. very helpful but NOT with someone such as he. He's got it all wrong.
I would never go back to that doctor, though, as so much about what he said and did is just wrong. I don't have the energy to explain more but there is more. And I say RUN. See if you can have your testing results mailed to you. If all is well (with the tests), that should work out okay). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The echo should be done both lying and standing. One post here explains why (but seldom is it really done):
CARDIAC INFO & SUPPORT -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- His "communication" methods and extra care are warning signs. Something is not right with that.
"Grooming" (malipulating) you comes to mind so that you will be more likely to agree to whatever he says. Stay grounded. He's full of garbage, not LL (uneducated in the area he proposes to know it all), rude to your LLMD, and you say he's nice to YOU. Doesn't not make sense.
He's pulling your strings. Working on your hopes that, maybe - just maybe - you can think this all away by thinking the right thoughts, having the magic of hypnosis, etc.
While hypnosis can be a wonderful and amazingly effective tool -- in some ways -- it's all wrong the way he's got this laid out.
Now, were a different hypnotherapist to be ILADS educated and thoroughly TBD-literate and understand how these infections work, I'd say you might have something there, as support / teaching. But they should also have graduate degrees in psychology. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Umm...he didn't believe you have Lyme (dismissive), was rude to your LLMD (unprofessional, maybe condescending), called himself a Master Hypnotist (I'm so great!), said he could cure you (I'm God!), and called you at home and talked for an hour (stalk much?).
Throw in the "nice" and "interested," and the fact that you are now confused, and he sounds like a Narcissist with ulterior motives.
- Scary indeed!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
The fact that he called you and talked for an hour is weird. No Dr who is professional would cross a boundary and do that.
posted
I was trying to think of what it was called and Keebler jogged my memory. Back when hubby was first ill and the docs told him his tremors were from anxiety/depression he went to a couple of appointments with a psychologist who tried to use relaxation techniques and creative visualization to "will away his tremor".
Of course it did not work. At that point in time his tremors were sometimes action tremors instead of resting tremors. He could sit or lie down and not shake but as soon as he moved his tremors were activated.
If hypnosis were the answer then nobody would be here on these boards.
I do agree with Keebler that it could maybe be useful to some degree as part of a comprehensive pain management program. But by itself I think you would be wasting time and money.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Although THIS particular hypnotherapist, IMO, is not up to par due to the inconsistencies with their behavior and lack of education & put-downs about lyme, etc ,. , ,
Some things to know about hypnosis:
1. you are in total control the entire time of the session - and afterward
2. no one can be made to do something during session or later that is against their will / character
No one can be made to rob a bank - or do anything thing else. That's a myth and hollywood -- or excuse artists.
3. if there is any kind of emergency or even need to become fully alert and function during the session, that will happen naturally.
you will be aware of what is going on around you yet very relaxed in a light dream like state. Like when you are drifting off to sleep, in that in-between "state" were you to hear something to which you needed to respond, you would be able to do so.
Otherwise, you should be relaxed enough that typical sounds would not be of any concern and you may not even notice.
4. We have all been in a "hypnotized" state before - and probably are each day. Have you ever been driving a familiar stretch of road, arrived at your destination but then did not recall having notice a particular landmark or stretch?
I used to commute in the country one hour each morning. A few miles from my job, I would enjoy passing a large lake. There were a couple times that I got to work and could not recall having done that.
Often, drivers will be in a light stage of hypnosis, if something were to cross their path and bring them back to attention, they likely just shake it off, so to speak.
NOT a good thing to happen while driving (really, it implies sleep deprivation and is never a good thing as one can slip into sleep), but just an example of how that in-between state can have one in a "trance" of sorts but still not "gone"
Hypnosis is a more relaxed state, therefore, one can be more susceptible to suggestion but ONLY if they go with one's "character" -- defenses can be let down ONLY so much as if they were blocks to begin with. ONLY if the suggestions will be in tune with your inner self, so to speak.
For a young person who is not yet mature in all matters of decision making, hypnosis can be good support for certain things such as self-confidence, test taking, speech giving, etc.
However, as we know young people can be very vulnerable to anything that is said. So, someone trained in adolescent psychology (which goes far deeper than any hypnosis training) is best.
One excellent thing I learned from hypnosis is the power of positive words. NOT using negative in how I talk to myself. That would be excellent for young folks, too.
Still, here, speaking more to the grounded adult:
Your subconscious will keep you safe. And it can be very creative in other ways to find success for whatever one might explore hypnosis.
Training, psychological training and the utmost in character are good attributes of a practitioner. Not all are who they say they are yet some are excellent.
Still, could add a few more good points but hands need a break. If one is looking for a good hypnotherapist, there are professional groups - and work of mouth to start exploring.
What I find excellent in the world of medicine is that medical hypnosis is becoming more acceptable. But someone trained in medical hypnosis is not trained in hypnosis for all medical situations.
And they need to keep THEIR mind open and not make judgements (as this cardiologist has done regarding lyme). Those with chronic illness MUST have someone who is thoroughly educated in that area.
For anesthesiologists, say, it's very clear, their goal and time-line. And hypnosis can be very helpful before, during and after any surgery. Or dental work, etc. -
[ 10-17-2013, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well I got my heart echo done and stress test... everything is normal. I have to wear a devise for 24 hours then tomorrow will be the last time I ever have to see him....
He was really upsetting me with the way he was bashing Lyme doctors and the Lyme community...... the only reason I stayed was so I can see if anything is going on with my heart. He has NO idea what Lyme patients have to go through and have been through. I hate doctors.
I am not letting him hypnotize me thats for sure.... now I remember why I put off seeing another doctor besides my LLMD it just leads me back to nowhere.
Posts: 251 | From Baltimore | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged |
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
We've all been there.
Glad preliminary tests are good.
Don't let anything he said stay with you. Too much stress. Like you said, they are clueless and often much worse.
If you want to do something empowering, go to a couple doctor review sites like RateMD and leave anonymous feedback.
posted
Just another doctor that thinks it's all in your head. They are so ignorant.
Glad everything is normal. The Holter is no fun, but has to be done. Mine was a few years ago now, and as predicted, all fine.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
There should not be found in you anyone who who employs divination,+ a practicer of magic+ or anyone who looks for omens+ or a sorcerer,+
(( or one who binds others with a spell+))
or anyone who consults a spirit medium*+ or a professional foreteller of events+ or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to God .
Posts: 789 | From CT, | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I agree with all of the above.
I've had hypnosis for
1) body dysmorphic disorder regarding my face. I was at the point where I couldn't make eye contact with people because I felt so lopsided. I was unable to leave my house, and got ready in the dark most days. Obviously, my face wasn't crooked in the first place, so hypnotizing me to believe it was symmetrical was a big job and took a while. But a good hynotherapist is also a therapist. There were other issues contributing to the disorder, and she helped me with coping skills as well.
2) for menstrual pain, AFTER I had seen an obgyn to rule out anything dangerous and I discussed hypnosis for pain with the obgyn first.
Basically, when the menstrual pain gets overwhelming, I imagine a light switch turning the pain off. Essentially, it is guided meditation, and it helped me stop needing pain killers during my period.
I feel there is a place for hypnosis as it has been very helpful and useful for me.
BUT NOT under any circumstances should be used to change one's belief systems, or be used to manipulate. That is the devil's work.
This cardiologist sounds very manipulative.
Steer clear.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Hypnosis cannot change anyone's belief systems. In this case, it is the practitioner whose beliefs about lyme are not correct so he would not have the correct background and if he's trying to change someone about lyme, he's just got his own agenda and is uneducated in all matters that matter in your case. So, not equipt for this case.
Still, his words would not be able to more that irritate you by his ignorance. He has no power (other than the clobber that we all get when any professional is ignorant).
Hollywood has given us too many myths about this excellent tool that teaches us how to have better control in some aspects of our lives, ourselves. It more about the power of positive thinking than anything else. And that's a good thing.
And it's learning that new way of communicating with ourselves, to hone language that works better for us -- WHILE BECOMING RELAXED. It's as much about biofeedback as it is about positive words and images. It's just that we can learn that biofeedback (how to relax our muscles, breathing, etc). on our own, without fancy equipment.
It's a relaxing meditation when it comes down to it where we can grow to know ourselves better and become stronger.
Hypnosis is a state of inner absorption, concentration and focused attention. . . .
. . . when our minds are concentrated and focused, we are able to use our minds more powerfully. Because hypnosis allows people to use more of their potential, learning self-hypnosis is the ultimate act of self-control. . . .
. . . Practitioners use clinical hypnosis in three main ways.
First, they encourage the use of imagination. Mental imagery is very powerful, especially in a focused state of attention. The mind seems capable of using imagery, even if it is only symbolic, to assist us in bringing about the things we are imagining. For example, a patient with ulcerative colitis may be asked to imagine what his/her distressed colon looks like. If she imagines it as being like a tunnel, with very red, inflamed walls that are rough in texture, the patient may be encouraged in hypnosis (and in self-hypnosis) to imagine this image changing to a healthy one.
A second basic hypnotic method is to present ideas or suggestions to the patient. In a state of concentrated attention, ideas and suggestions that are compatible with what the patient wants seem to have a more powerful impact on the mind.
Finally, hypnosis may be used for unconscious exploration, to better understand underlying motivations or identify whether past events or experiences are associated with causing a problem. Hypnosis avoids the critical censor of the conscious mind, which often defeats what we know to be in our best interests. The effectiveness of hypnosis appears to lie in the way in which it bypasses the critical observation and interference of the conscious mind, allowing the client's intentions for change to take effect. . . . .
. . . In hypnosis, the patient is not under the control of the hypnotist. Hypnosis is not something imposed on people, but something they do for themselves. A hypnotist simply serves as a facilitator to guide them. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Hypnosis (and learning self-hypnosis) was tremendously helpful in my overcoming severe TMJ (even before I learned about the magnesium deficiency connection). I still use this skill daily, many times. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
It pains me to disagree with Keeb, but people can and are influenced to do things against their ethics due to hypnosis. There have been cases of women who have slept with a practitioner while under hypnosis.
Also, there are different kinds of hypnosis. I had the misfortune of becoming involved with NLP as a teenager, which teaches and uses Ericksonian hypnosis -- that is covert hypnosis. There is no formal induction -- the practitioner just launches in after developing rapport with you (by doing things like mirroring your body language; breathing, etc.), and will eventually start speaking in metaphors:
"Erickson believed that the unconscious mind was always listening and that, whether or not the patient was in trance, suggestions could be made which would have a hypnotic influence, as long as those suggestions found resonance at the unconscious level. The patient could be aware of this or could be completely oblivious that something was happening. Erickson would see if the patient would respond to one or another kind of indirect suggestion and allow the unconscious mind to participate actively in the therapeutic process. In this way, what seemed like a normal conversation might induce a hypnotic trance, or a therapeutic change in the subject."
The fact that you're experiencing confusion can be an indication that you've been exposed to it. Plus the guy is calling you at night? Oh, and, a side-effect of being hypnotized is that the person who is hypnotized develops a starry-eyed view of the practitioner, or an, "uncommon bond":
quote:Even though this guy has been stubborn with Lyme... he has been the nicest doctor I have seen so far.
The more you are subject to hypnosis, the more that bond is strengthened.
Stay far, far away from that guy.
Oh and BTW, the language that is used to qualify someone as an NLP practitioner is, "Master Practitioner".
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Hypnosis cannot control us. It helps us be in better control of ourselves. I have hundreds of hours in the study of this, both classroom and personal research. I studied this question extensively, including from personal sessions.
For "faux" sessions, where someone is lying to a vulnerable person, saying it's hypnosis, someone may be manipulated, etc. but hypnosis cannot control us beyond what we want to do, either during or after. It just does not work that way.
There are certainly a whole range of manipulative behaviors (including slick speech) that someone may say were/are this regarding someone who is more vulnerable, but it's not the same thing.
Drugging can also be done and is often connected with such faux-term accusations (not at all that a crime might not be committed but that it is not hypnosis that is to blame - the term misused as a slick cover to commit a crime, mostly of sexual advantages). This is criminal behavior, not to be confused with true hypnosis. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
I hope we can agree to disagree then.
One of the techniques cults use to garner compliance is hypnosis. What kind of trance state do you think those suicide bombers are in when they blow themselves up? Would they be doing that without being in a situation where they were repeatedly exposed to suggestion and the "high" state that hypnosis produces in someone exposed to it?
This is a hotly debated subject that the leading experts are divided on. Keebler, we fall in different camps, and I highly doubt we're going to resolve it here.
Bottom line -- myself and Keebler, who both have considerable experience with hypnosis, agree: Stay away from that guy.
I thought Keebler's advice,
quote:See if you can have your testing results mailed to you.
was very good. You don't owe him anything.
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Brainwashing techniques can be confused with hypnosis but not at all in the same category. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic