posted
I am very impressed with the Buhner protocol and not so impressed with the Cowden protocol. Anyone have any +'s or -"s for either protocol?
Kim
Posts: 1 | From NE Oklahoma | Registered: Oct 2013
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Rivendell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19922
posted
Hi Okie.
Well, before a LLMD appeared just two hours from where I live, I was using some of Buhner's herbs, and that is the first time I ever felt any improvement whatsoever.
Right now I am combining some of his herbs with treatment from my doctor, but I intend to eventually do straight Buhner.
I really think he has a good approach. I am really impressed with his new book "Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections".
He is very sensitive to the fact that so many lyme treatments can cost a fortune (something he believes is not ethical).
I have also heard very good things about Cowden and Dr. Zhang (the last link below).
The Buhner protocol has a yahoo support group where you might be able to get more info. A link to the group is provided at his website under "Ask a Question".
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Herbs can be amazingly good, no matter which 'protocol'. The thing is, they work better in combination.
I used loads of Buhner, some of Cowden tinctures, some Chinese herbs, they were all helpful. The 'secret' is when to take, in which amount, in which preparation (tincture, full herb in powder, decoctions, teas) and in which COMBINATION.
I find Cowden better as supportive (cleaning), sometimes good at some coinfections, as well as Chinese herbs (very good to fight a number of infections).
Old Buhners' herbs were good for borrelia, but weaker for coinfections. I wonder his new book, if the cocktail of herbs work better for coinfections as the previous book....
For cleaning, you got to add binders, or nothing works too well, in my opinion. Buhner is weak for the cleaning part, I find. I would go more dr. K's approach for binders, cleansers, supportive stuff.
After years visiting the forum, what I see is that a fixed protocol helps just as starting point, it won't help people longer.
I wonder if there is a SINGLE person with chronic lyme healed only following a fixed protocol, no matter what (even abx). I almost bet there is not a single person!
You got to tune into your own problems, your own pathogens, your body, how you feel after taking the treatment. A fixed protocol simply does not work for long.
Not everyone can take all herbs, not everyone will improve with the same herbs, not everyone can take the high amounts required by each 'protocol'.
That does not mean you will not improve, that just means, your body reacts differently, and you got to adjust the plants in amount, frequency, binders, killers, supportive stuff like magnesium, enzymes etc.
I somehow like Buhner because he does not sell the herbs he recommends. And because he proposes herbs in the forms that he thinks will work better (not necessarily in tincture form).
Like cats claw. I loved cats claw much more than the Cowden's Samento tincture version (much more expensive than pure herb).
Pure cats claw in powder worked for me much better than Samento Tincture. I needed it too, but just for a very short time (when my cats claw was not helping). Let's say, 95% of the time I treated borrelia, cats claw worked better than the Samento tincture.
Look also at Zhang's herbs. He also sells the products he recommends. Some may be useful, but you can buy the same stuff separately and make your own preparations too.
He recommends so much garlic, which I found good, but so far, the best garlic product I took was the frozen garlic capsules, far superior than Zhang's garlic. Garlic is also in a book of Buhner, that he wrote long ago.
Anyway, I hope I didn't make you more confused.
I would use all these proposed herbs not against each other, but like in combination. Just take from each what you think it works. For knowing that, you gotta try them!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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CherylSue
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Good advice Brussels. From experience, I, too, know that it is good to rotate. I think our bodies adjust to one type of medicine or herb, and that we need to change things once in awhile.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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Rivendell
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Member # 19922
posted
In a question and answer sesstion on Buhner's website, he stated that most people mix protocols - finding the combination of herbs that work best for them.
His new book on co-infections covers a lot of territory. And he tries to keep that protocol as cost-effective as possible, which I really appreciate.
And he says it is a starting point and people have to adjust it to fit their needs.
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Cherylsue, I think it is not us that get used to herbs and supplements only, but the ecosystem we are treating.
We target problems (parasites, bacteria, candida, symptoms, lack of vitamins, minerals, whatever), then when these problems are temporarily or permanently solved with a successful combination of remedies, we need to move further on.
Critters also adapt, they either die, enter cystic form, hide, form biofilms, go dormant, whatever, and we need to address the new pathogens that suddenly occupy the empty territory, in the same way it happens in nature.
That is why treating lyme is an eternal ballet, with many episodes. It is not that you are failing, it is that you are treating layers, one after the other. Toxins need to be cleaned, or no one improves fast. Let the toxins there, the critters come back in rage.
So in all treatments, change is a must. Keep the same treatment, same symptoms, you won't improve.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Brussels, what brand of freeze dried garlic did you use? I currently use Allimax (which is not freeze dried) but am wondering if there is something better. Thanks!
Posts: 80 | From New England | Registered: Jun 2012
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Good stuff Brussels. But what happens when you run out of 'products'?
Do you revisit old herbs you took a few years back (took as protocol, time with it) ?
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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quote:Originally posted by Brussels: I used loads of Buhner, some of Cowden tinctures, some Chinese herbs, they were all helpful. The 'secret' is when to take, in which amount, in which preparation (tincture, full herb in powder, decoctions, teas) and in which COMBINATION.
I so agree with Brussels here. I also use lots of herbs. Cowden, Byron White, Buhner, whatever my body wants. I keep several different types of dry herbs too. If I use one brand or form for too long, it stops testing positive for me, so I keep a different one on hand. I just did this with a dry form of cats claw that I had been using for a few months. It stopped testing positive for me, but now samento tests strong.
Energetic testing is the best way for me to determine which herbs to use. It's fascinating to discover the outcome from the testing. I don't even look at the bottles. I just test them and then notice (once I'm done with testing) what my body wants.
When I go after metals and then test, my body wants detoxing stuff (again, I don't look at the bottles, that's just what tests strong). When I go after parasites, my body wants me to deal with viruses or lyme. It's too cool.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Happydaychick,
I used many garlic products. The best for me, no doubt, is frozen garlic from dr. K. It is very potent, much more than RAW garlic. In my opinion, nothing compares to it.
It won't kill everything, but when it does, it is a big help! ------------------ Surprise,
how can you run out of the thousands of herbs that exist in the planet?
The problem is to find them, to combine them, to shift and many times, revisit the herbs, sometimes in different combinations.
Different combinations are like different products almost.
That is why I use energetic tests. They are pretty helpful to find what we need.
and add to these herbs the homeopathic version of them, and you will go to millions of possibilities. You can take all drugs that exist in the planet in a lifetime, but to take all herbs and homeopathics in a lifetime is impossible. -----
Catgirl, I'm glad you test energetically and see the power in it. That is how I combined herbs to fight babesia (very persistent infection) and also bartonella, long ago.
They were successful, as they didn't really come back later, but stayed dormant. These are two stubborn pathogens, and I am convinced that only because of shifting herbs and testing them every day, made me find the right combinations.
I test how long to cook a decoction, how much plant to put, how much to take, if I may take with which plant, how many times a day, if the plant is reaching the parts of my body I want to, if I need cleansers because of that herb, etc...
I even dared to eat plants in my garden or while walking in the woods, just because they tested good. I don't advice that to anyone though. I only did a few times, eating even flowers, my daughter too, and so far, we are still alive!
Great you find this cool!!! Me too! Go on, testing, and then you learn about plants like that (which target which pathogen, which works when, etc).
For example, I discovered that cardamon deals with both babesia and lyme cysts. Since then, I tested that for other people, and cardamon also cleans the lymph according to my tests.
It's a plant I use until today, in my tea or coffee or cooking. It feels wonderful.
Crossing fingers for you all!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- In addition to some of the good posts above,
Many articles and books below -- and great detail about herbs, etc.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.
Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIOPHOTON - BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Catgirl
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posted
Awesome Brussels! Great advice, thank you!
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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