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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » what does sleepiness feel like?

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Author Topic: what does sleepiness feel like?
Marz
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Wondering what part of the brain you feel sleepiness in?

I've not been sleepy for so many years, I've forgotten what it feels like

It seems I remember it's kind of behind the eyes.

I so miss that luxurious feeling of drifting off. No naps for a long time. Right now feeling like I want to sleep, but it's just out of reach. Can;t seem to get to my eyes.

ambiem you're just suddening out which is better than nothing.

Starting to think I need a psychiatrist.

I can see that ambien makes one dependent--but shouldn't I feel sleepy sometimes in 24 hours?

Looking back on when I first got lyme and slept the better part of a day actually sounds good to me now!

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Keebler
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Look up: DELTA & THETA brain waves (one is sleepiness, the other sleep but I forget which is which), and see the differences between them. Then the differences in ALPHA & BETA, our awake waves.

With lyme (with many infections) the brain is drawn to the sleepiness brain waves. That sleepineess is part of the illness and we NEED it. Our brain NEEDS to shut down, at least partially. It's like coma-light, as I see it. the brain is ill, can't keep pushing along and requires rest.

On the flip side, as you experience, you can be tired but "wired" and that is very common with lyme. Too much of the excited brain waves going on - usually indicating the infection is not under management &/or the toxicity level is too high, cause neuro excitability.

This is not that you are thinking one way or the other, its what happening with the chemistry of infection, etc. There's a lot to consider with treatment being targeting enough but not too toxic, too.

Still, adrenal fatigue, also common with lyme is a huge factor here. So is whether the infections are being directly targeted, etc.
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Keebler
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To help with endurance. /Also see the detain about ambien risks, it's not at all just dependence that is the issue, it can really mess with brain waves around the clock.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT


Many sleep drugs are very toxic. Some alternatives are above. Still, liver support us a huge factor, too, in helping to reduce toxic load and help us with our sleep / wake cycles:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT
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Keebler
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Before I found out that I have celiac, I recall being so sleepy after eating. Turns out the wheat made me sleepy but also KEPT me from getting sleep.

Even if someone is gluten free, there may still be some gluten sneaking into your food, or lip balm. That -- or other food issues & toxicities - can also affect alertness. Just about any food additive can cause that "wired" but spaced out effect and interfere with sleep and wakefulness.

The food additives often are like rocket fuel to the NMDA receptors, causing all kinds of havoc.

GLUTAMATE too high in your diet? Check all your supplements, too. See the post here explaining how that cause a terrible ride:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=029690;p=0

Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors (that are not likely natural at all);

GMO foods that destroy the GI Tract; Gluten; Dairy.
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Marz
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Keebler, believe me I'm trying every adrenal support there is. I just never seem to get ahead of the stress. Meditation doesn't work.

I'm gluten free and am careful, but sure I slip up sometimes but not consciously.

In your opinion, should flexeril (taken two nights now one day apart) make me sleepy? If it doesn't I wonder why not. I was wide awake until 5am today.

I thought it would relax me enough to get to delta wave sleep?

I did have a sleep study in 2006, but was sleepiing ok then. LLMD just wanted to know if apnea was making me tired and I dont have apnea.

I had alpha wave intrusion and not a lot of delta waves.

I appreciate your info!

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nefferdun
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I totally relate to that kind of vicious insomnia. Bart causes it and so does protomyxzoa but adrenal fatigue can make it much worse. We are worn out fighting this disease(s).

I recently started Cortisol Manager, which you can buy on amazon.com. I take two pills every evening and it is one of the most helpful things I have ever used to get some natural sleep. I also take lavender oil and it knocks me out like a sleeping pill.

I still have something going on - probably BLO - but I am sleeping without drugs. I have Ambien in the closet and haven't touched it since I got the Cortisol Manager.

I am a lifelong insomniac. I have had it off and on since I was 12.
Stress can send me into overdrive. I have Hashimoto's too and that can make sleep impossible. I actually collapsed one time from lack of sleep and that was BEFORE LYME.

I take pregenenalone, which is the master hormone used to make other hormones. And I take LDN, to help with the auto immune attacks on my thyroid.

Feeling sleepy is very luxurious. Trying to stay awake and drifting off while reading a good book, feels so comforting. Things get fuzzy. The covers feel warm and secure. It is so nice.

I hope you get relief.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Marz
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I've heard good things about cortisol manager.

I'm doing Isocort in the am. and trying soy free phosphaatidyl serine again I think. I had deeper sleep with that.

Also am quite sure that my thyroid med is not adequate. We went from 100 mcg to 75 3 months ago and I'm noticing I could hardly push a lightly filled grocery cart in the store yesterday.

Usually I'm sleepy tired when I'm low thyroid though. This is wired, anxiety filled tiredness.

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nefferdun
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Perhaps you have Hashimoto's. You could ask your doctor to check for antibodies against your thyroid. When there is an attack it releases a lot of hormone and you get a hyper flare, which is miserable. Low Dose Naltrexone will stop the attack - or lessen it.

I was told to take the Cortisol Manager in the evening. I got mixed up and took it in the morning. It made me extremely tired during the day and I still didn't sleep at night. Try taking it in the evening. When I changed the time I was taking it, I had a huge improvement in sleeping as well as not waking up and staying awake.

I tried other things, like rhodeola, but they didn't help with my sleep and in some instances made things worse. I seldom can see an immediate benefit from a supplement but Cortisol Manager has made a huge difference. You can get 30 of them from amazon.com for $25. That will only last 15 days but you will know if it works. If it does you can buy 90 for $51.

If you feel anxious, you might want to also take GABA twice a day. It is very calming. I quit taking my methyl cycle supplements daily and began to regress. I was an anxious irritable mess. When I re-started the GABA, I could feel the difference in less than a week. I am taking 500 mg twice a day.

Taking folinic acid or methylfolate at night instead of the morning also helps with sleep. If you have a CBS mutation avoiding food with sulfur will help you feel calmer. I had trouble sleeping if I ate eggs or cabbage at night. Meat is also high in sulfur.

Here is what Dr. Roberts writes:
"The CBS up regulation leads to excess production of alpha-ketoglutarate, which is converted in to glutamate, a stimulatory neurotransmitter.

Under normal circumstances, glutamate will be converted in to GABA, a calming neurotransmitter, but the enzyme systems that convert glutamate in to GABA are compromised by lead and mercury, the clearance of which seems to be compromised in individuals with methyl cycle defects (here is a situation where dysfunction of a genetically abnormal enzyme leads to acquired dysfunction of a genetically normal enzyme system).

The result is “excitotoxicity”, stimulatory behavior in autistic kids (“stims”) and anxiety and sleeplessness in adults."

So you need to avoid glutamate rich foods and supplement the GABA. You might also want to get chelation for metals.

I can really empathize with you. They use sleep deprivation as a form of torture.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Marz
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So many helpful things here nefferdun and I think maybe you've helped solve this for me.

Time will tell.

One year before getting lyme I tested positive for antimicrosomal antibodies which I believe is Hashimotos.

No doctor since has tested or acknowledged that when I tell them.

I'm currently on 75 mcg of levothyroxine having come down from 100 mcg in sept. The theory was if I got more hypo, I might sleep.

Yesterday, was very suspicious becas could barely push a lightly filled grocery cart in store.

Also, have been on rhodiola since Sept as part of Buhner. AND have been on L-arginine as part of Buhner 2000 mg per day and just read if I understtod right that argine can be a culprit too.

Found this on hypothyroidism:

Why Does Hypothyroid Cause Anxiety?
The thyroid hormone is directly linked to the regulation of very important neurotransmitters. From GABA to serotonin to norepinephrine, thyroid hormone plays a crucial role in their creation and regulation.
When your thyroid hormone is not functioning properly, these neurotransmitters tend to go haywire, causing not only anxiety, but also frequent panic attacks. This is made worse by the physical symptoms that are often associated with hypothyroidism, often causing people to worry that something is wrong with their health.
Hypothyroidism is far more common in women than men, and the risk increases as you age. Also, some people with hypothyroidism experience an increase in panic attacks and anxiety unrelated to the hormone, as a result of fear over the physical effects of the thyroid. Recall that stress itself may contribute to hypothyroidism, so in some cases thyroid issues may be the response to anxiety, not the cause.
Hypothyroidism, however, is actually not the type of thyroid disorder most associated with anxiety and panic attacks. That's hyperthyroidism, which is when too much of the thyroid hormone is produced. Hypothyroid more commonly causes depression and fatigue, rather than anxiety. But anxiety and panic attacks have been reported, and the above reasons are the most likely causes.

http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/causes/hypothyroidism

Maybe I will get some GABA. I started taking non-soy phosphatidyl serine in late pm and before bed.

Wondering what your opinion is of the L-arginine. Can't find the article now. It's supposed to be a major part of stopping the cytokind cascade according to Buhner.

Some say it's good for anxiety--others not. I'm going to stop taking and see if I feel better.

I started the arginine in Sept too as part of Buhner. Taking 1000 mg 2 times a day.

I had anxiety before starting Buhner, but it seems it got worse after maybe rhodiola, arginine, cordyceps?

Thanks so much nefferdun--it's nice to hear from someone who really understands.

Torture this IS!

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/113775?#000000

Topic: Amino Acid Information Link

See post: Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine (3 excitatory amino acids that can be wrong for us when added as supplements, beyond a normal dietary level)

Seaweed has its own natural MSG (glutamate) and can be very excitatory


Food additives, by all kind of names that don't sound so bad can also take glutamate sky high:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=029690;p=0

Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors (that are not likely natural at all)
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Keebler
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As B-6 can help, be certain it is gluten-free. There are several otherwise good brands of sublingual B-6 that do contain gluten -- and that's not at all good.
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Keebler
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You mention 3 adrenal support herbs making the over excitability worse. Some are much more stimulating that others. Best to avoid anything that you sense is too stimulating for your body.

The less stimulating ones, in such a case, seem to be ashwagandha, Siberian Ginseng (not a true Ginseng) cordyceps (but it can also depend upon the brand, the form, the dose - and any additives or if an overall formula is not in balance for YOUR body).


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT
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Keebler
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One more note, GABA can be very difficult to tolerate and nearly impossible to find the right dose, so start VERY LOW and SLOW.

IMO, IME, MAGNESIUM has been far better to have on my team. It will affect GABA in positive ways, without the clobber-effect that GABA can have. MAGNESIUM will calm down that overactive NMDA (caused by too high glutamate) and also bring up the GABA, in a much safer way than by adding GABA independently.

GABA - and taking GABA = sounds great on paper. In experience, it's not at all that easy.
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Marz
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I take 325 mg ionic mag (Natural Calm) before bed. When I've taken more during day I have diarrhea, but will try building up slowly. Good to know about GABA.

Also epsom salt bath every other day and sometimes mag oil on feet.

I just want that sleepy feeling in eyes though so bad.

Pretty suspicious it's partly due to low thyroid. Have another week to wait for tests to come back.

Felt like floor moved under my feet at checkout and felt tippy when walking around store today.

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GretaM
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LDN really helps me too.

It took about 3 weeks for me to really notice, but I am sleeping better and have much less pain with LDN.

I also wake up *sometimes* feeling refreshed. Which has happened like twice before in the last ten years.

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Marz
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Wish I'd asked my osteopathic physician about LDN yesterday when she called.

Doesn't seem tsh is off enough to cause hyper feeling. TSH is 13. I've been at 26 and not felt like this.

I've been way higher than that and just tired and sleepy.

Bart?

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nefferdun
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It could be bart or protomyxzoa contributing to it. Other symptoms you might have would be headaches, irritability, muscle twitching and pain in muscles. If it is bart you would probably feel depersonalization like who gives a *&$%^. If it is PR, you might have nasal congestion, a dry cough and loss of voice - these symptoms are intermittent.

If it is PR, then you don't want to be taking arginine or magnesium because that helps build the biofilm. Bart also makes biofilm.

Low Dose Naltrexone would probably be the best thing for Hashimoto's. If you ever had antibodies, then you have it. It is not like regular low thyroid because you can test normal but still be very sick. It is not something I have studied but when you have it, it seems your thyroid can be all over the place.

Bart and PR, as well as being hyperthyroid can make me feel like a train that won't stop and is headed for a cliff. It is like your body is on constant alert unable to shut down and drift into sleep.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Marz
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Is it safe to buy LDN online or can you? I see a Canadian pharmacy, but didn't go to the end where it might ask for a rx.

You're describing me to a T nefferdun for bart. I have the headache, irritability, not twitching muscles, but extremely weak.

And I think I'd say depersonalization. Have dear family coming and I know I care on one level-but am very fearful because I know I'm going to have to do a very good acting job that might not be convincing. I'm on the edge and too tired to act.

I'd be glad if they couldn't come--but "glad" is not even really a word in my vocabulary.

I just want these palpitations, headache, and anxiety to stop. And want to be sleepy. Want to escape from me!

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