desertwind
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Okay, so I have 5 root canaled teeth that have not felt good for years and I am looking to get them out and replace with implants. Never an infection in any of the teeth (IMO it is/was a lyme issue).
I have one implant and it has done fine over the course of years.
Every tooth that had been root canaled still hurts so I saw a specialist who did a 3-D Cone Scan on my teeth and has recommended a couple of implants. Diagnosed with cracked /fractured roots.
So.....hate the idea of extracting teeth but also hate the idea of these painful root canaled teeth hanging out in my mouth.
Dental work always causes a flare for me so wondering if anyone who was in remission or doing okay lyme-wise had extractions/implants. If so how did it go for you?
I feel like I need to clean out some of these old root canals in order to continue getting better. Any thoughts?
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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My implants were done before I was dx with Lyme. But, I would think you would be a lot better off with the implants.
All you can do is prepare for the flare.
-------------------- Faithful
Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor. Posts: 2682 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2009
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desertwind
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Thanks - yeah that is what I am thinking too.
Gonna run it by my LLMD next week.
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linky123
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I had seven root canals pulled a few years ago and they cleaned some really bad infection out of my jawbone.
That said, if I had it to do again, I would have kept the tooth in the front.
I have partials (which I hate), and it's demoralizing to see that gap in the front when I take them out.
I had a bridge there for a while, but it eventually had to come out along with the adjoining tooth which couldn't stand up to the pressure of the bridge.
I've never had implants, but have considered getting one in the front; they're just so stinking expensive.
Good luck.
-------------------- 'Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.' Matthew 11:28 Posts: 2607 | From Hooterville | Registered: Apr 2009
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desertwind
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Yes, very expensive - cha ching.
The doctor I am consulting with does bone grafting on everyone - even if the bone is good. He does it for pocket preservation to ensure long term success with the implant.
Mine is a molar but if I had to take out a front tooth I would be not doing it. Sorry you had to go through losing a front tooth - traumatizing I am sure.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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I just had my gold crowned tooth removed because it couldn't be saved. The oral surgeon found a pocket of infection in my sinus cavity which was sitting right on top of the tooth. What I thought would be a ten minute procedure took an hour and a half, plus many stitches. My neck is killing me, and I feel like I've been brutally attacked. The swelling has gone down, but there's a bit of bruising. Desertwind, you're brave! I wish you the best with all the dental work. All the docs say to get rid of the root canals. Are dental implants safe? My sister had bone grafting done twice to repair a degenerative bone disease in her mouth, and even though she was in good health, it took a very long time to recover. Will you use your own bone or a doner's bone? C.P.
Posts: 106 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2012
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desertwind
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Hey C.P. I have been wanting to get these root canals out for so long. They have never felt good!
The surgeon I am seeing is very gentle and comprehensive. Glad he did the CT Scan so he can see my bone density and where my nerves lie. He will use the CT to guide the implant(s).
I am having IV sedation during the procedure so I will be in twilight sleep...nighty night...
For me I THINK they are safe. I have a titanium plate in the back of my head/skull with no negative reactions....knock on wood...
Gosh...perhaps I should not get the bone grafting - sounds like a tough healing process???? Surgeon says it is the best for long term but now I am wondering..
I will be using a doner and was told 3 months to heal before placing the implant. I just want to do things right this time around. Thanks for your feedback! DW
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Go to a biological dentist, implants are like boring holes into energy pathways, i would t get implants, better to get teeth removed, clean out infections with homepathics, pack up and use partials, lots safer.
Dick Van dyke was having lots of neuro like issues, finally dental implants was found to be causing the problems,
Posts: 532 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2004
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desertwind
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What about bone loss? What would a biological dentist use to fill up the pocket? Bone grafting?
I don't like the idea of having a missing tooth in my mouth.
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oxygenbabe
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Zirconium or titanium? Any advice? I wouldn't get a bone graft. Donor tissue, who knows.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I had 1 tooth pulled, my llmd told me to stay on protocol. After it was pulled i had a minor flare up from lyme .
On next visit few more teeth pulled and will stay on protocol , then implants , same day.
but will be using prior to surgery a script dentist gave me Chlorhexidine its an rinse for the mouth to basically clean the biofilm from mouth too keep things clean
Talk to your LLMD listen to him and this way dentist and doctor come up with a game plan .
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desertwind
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Yes, llmd said clindamycin one week prior and one month after procedure. This is the same abx oral surgeon wants me on post extraction so that is good. Will also add coverage for bab.'s.
Oral surgeon insists on bone graft for long term health of tissue. Could be my own if I wanted to go that route.
I am very happy w/ the titanium implant I got 5 years ago. Much better then the root canal that was there. Thanks for feedback! DW
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dbpei
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I had a dental implant done in 2008 that I now regret. I had many dental problems at that time and eventually lost my hearing on the same side - and am now plagued with many symptoms in my jaw, skull and face.
There is a cyst directly above the implant that my ENT stated was benign. I am getting a second opinion next week.
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Brussels
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Definitively no to titanium. My lyme doctor says he couldn't find a single patient that tolerates titanium (in energetic tests). He follows everything dr. K. does.
Definitively, I would choose zirconium. But implanting during lyme, never. It's like implanting infection.
Our immune systems are down, we are full of bacteria, we do a hole in the sick jawbone and implant an exterior material? Too risky. When lyme goes dormant, I would do it, but not when lyme is active, no way.
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linky123
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desertwind,
Be sure to take a good probiotic and s. boullardi, such as Floristor, while taking clindimycin.
It's broad spectrum and a main factor in the cause of c-diff.
-------------------- 'Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.' Matthew 11:28 Posts: 2607 | From Hooterville | Registered: Apr 2009
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desertwind
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Yes, I had been on Clinda. in the past and take high dose / high quality pro.s et al. Thanks for the reminder.
To date I do not have a problem with titanium. I was allergy tested prior to having a plate installed in the back of my head during an ocipital cranioplasty - chiari plate. Had that surgery less then a year ago and no problems at all from the plate or recovery from the surgery.
I am not sure about zirconium as it is not used that often (as compared to titanium). Looking for more info on it as it relates to dental implants. How well do they function? How well do they integrate with the jaw/bone?
I have been doing very well this past year and pretty much off of abx.s for close to a year- this is after being very ill for 10 years. LLMD thinks I am well enough to go through the process of removing old root canals. He actually is not opposed to titanium.
Still pondering...
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Brussels
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Dr. K. says no to titanium. I myself test energetically, it never comes good. It is not allergy. I had to use gold alloys, without titanium in the mix.
Zirconium is good, I think, it is used in Germany and Switzerland, that I know.
Most docs and dentists say yes to titanium here too. Many never heard about zirconium and do not know where you can have a zirconium implant.
-------- Titanium Dioxide: Toxic or Safe? By Lori Stryker, B.Sc., B.H.Ec., B.Ed.
Titanium dioxide is the subject of new controversy, yet it is a substance as old as the earth itself. It is one of the top fifty chemicals produced worldwide. It is a white, opaque and naturally- occurring mineral found in two main forms: rutile and anatase. B
oth forms contain pure titanium dioxide that is bound to impurities. Titanium dioxide is chemically processed to remove these impurities, leaving the pure, white pigment available for use.
Titanium dioxide has a variety of uses, as it is odorless and absorbent. This mineral can be found in many products, ranging from paint to food to cosmetics. In cosmetics, it serves several purposes. It is a white pigment, an opacifier and a sunscreen.
Concern has arisen from studies that have pointed to titanium dioxide as a carcinogen and photocatalyst, thus creating fear in consumers. But are these claims true? What does the research on these allegations bear out? Would we as consumers benefit from avoiding this mineral to preserve our long-term health?
A carcinogen is a substance that causes a cellular malfunction, causing the cell to become cancerous and thus potentially lethal to the surrounding tissue and ultimately the body as these rapidly growing mutated cells take over.
With the surge in cancer rates among all segments of the population, many people are attempting to reduce or eliminate their exposure to carcinogens. Titanium dioxide is regarded as an inert, non-toxic substance by many regulatory bodies such as the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) and others charged with the responsibility of safeguarding the health of occupational workers and public health.
The MSDS states that titanium dioxide can cause some lung fibrosis at fifty times the nuisance dust, defined by the US Department of Labor as 15 mg/m cubed (OSHA) or 10 mg/m cubed (ACGIH Threshold Limit Value).
Recently, the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified titanium dioxide to be a possible human carcinogen, thus a group 2B carcinogen. In Canada, titanium dioxide is now listed under WHMIS class D2A (carcinogen)as a result of the IARC designation (ccohs.ca). The definition by the IARC for Group 2B possibly carcinogenic to humans is as follows:
"This category is used for agents for which there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and less than sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals.
It may also be used when there is inadequate evidence of carcinogenicity in humans but there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals.
In some instances, an agent for which there is inadequate evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and less than sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals together with supporting evidence from mechanistic and other relevant data may be placed in this group. An agent may be classified in this category solely on the basis of strong evidence from mechanistic and other relevant data." (monographs.iarc.fr)
The NIOSH declaration of carcinogenicity in rats is based on a study by Lee, Trochimowicz & Reinhardt, "Pulmonary Response of Rats Exposed to Titanium Dioxide by Inhalation for Two Years" (1985).
The authors of this study found that rats chronically exposed to excessive dust loading of 250 mg/m cubed and impaired clearance mechanisms within the rat, for six hours per day, five days per week for two years, developed slight lung tumours.
They also noted that the biological relevance of this data to lung tumours in humans is negligible. It is important to note that rats are known to be an extremely sensitive species for developing tumours in the lungs when overloaded with poorly soluble, low toxicity dust particles. Rat lungs process particles very differently compared to larger mammals such as dogs, primates or humans (Warheit, 2004).
This sensitivity in the lungs has not been observed in other rodent species such as mice or hamsters (Warheit, 2004), therefore using the rat model to determine carcinogenicity of titanium dioxide in humans can be misleading, as extrapolation of species-specific data to humans is erroneous.
Many organizations and businesses have perpetuated this assessment of the carcinogenicity of titanium dioxide (ewg.org). However, several studies and study reviews have been used to compile the safety disclaimers for the regulations on the permitted use of titanium dioxide.
One such study review took place in Rome, 1969 between the World Health Organization and the Food & Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.
Cross species analyses were performed and reviewed for possible toxicity of titanium dioxide. The conference concluded that among the following species: rats, dogs, guinea pigs, rabbits, cats and human males, ingestion of titanium dioxide at varying diet percentages and over long periods of time did not cause absorption of this mineral.
Titanium dioxide particulates were not detected in the blood, liver, kidney or urine and no adverse effects were noted from its ingestion. The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (2002) allows for its ingestion, external application including the eye area, and considers it a safe substance for public health.
Other epidemiological studies showed that workers exposed to titanium dioxide exhibited no statistically significant relationship between such exposure with lung cancer and respiratory disease, although some cases of pulmonary fibrosis did occur. These studies were conducted in industrial settings where the increased exposure puts these individuals more at risk than the average person.
Titanium dioxide is listed as a safe pigment, with no known adverse effects when used in cosmetics, and approved by the FDA when 99% pure. It is not listed as a carcinogen, mutagen, teratogen, comedogen, toxin or as a trigger for contact dermatitis in any other safety regulatory publications beside the NIOSH (Antczak, 2001; Physical & Theoretical Chemical Laboratory, Oxford University respectively), with the exception of the recent IARC designation.
It is reasonable to conclude then, that titanium dioxide is not a cancer-causing substance unless exposure is beyond safe limits during manufacturing using this substance.
It is considered safe for use in foods, drugs, paints and cosmetics. This does not end the debate, however, as controversy over the safety of one unique form of titanium dioxide still exists.
One form of mineral or mineral extract, including titanium dioxide, that we should be concerned about is ultrafine or nano particles. As technology has advanced, so has its ability to take normal sized particles of minerals and reduce them to sizes never before imagined.
While many are praising this new technology, others are warning of its inherent dangers to our bodies. A study by Churg et. al. at the University of British Columbia in their paper "Induction of Fibrogenic Mediators by Fine and Ultrafine Titanium Dioxide in Rat Tracheal Explants" (1999) found that ultrafine particles of the anatase form of titanium dioxide, which are less than 0.1 microns, are pathogenic or disease causing (see Table 1).
Kumazawa, et. al. in their study, "Effects of Titanium Ions and Particles on Neutrophil Function and Morphology" concluded that cytotoxicity (danger to the cell) was dependent on the particle size of titanium dioxide.
The smaller the particle size, the more toxic it is (see Table 2). This conclusion is relevant to the consumer because of the cosmetics industry's increasing use of micronized pigments in sunscreens and colour cosmetics.
Nanoparticles of titanium dioxide are used in sunscreens because they are colourless at that size and still absorb ultraviolet light. Many cosmetic companies are capitalizing on metal oxide nanoparticles.
We have seen, however, that if titanium dioxide particles used to act as a sunscreen are small enough, they can penetrate the cells, leading to photocatalysis within the cell, causing DNA damage after exposure to sunlight (Powell, et. al. 1996)
The fear is that this could lead to cancer in the skin. Studies with subjects who applied sunscreens with micronized titanium dioxide daily for 2-4 weeks showed that the skin can absorb microfine particles. These particles were seen in the percutaneous layers of the skin under UV light. Coarse or fine particles of titanium dioxide are safe and effective at deflecting and absorbing UV light, protecting the skin, but consumers should avoid using products with micronized mineral pigments, either in sunscreens or colour cosmetics.
As with any health issue, relevant studies must be examined closely to reach balanced conclusions about its impact on our health and well-being. Often, risk determinations are made without considering actual hazards and real-life exposures (Warheit, 2004).
The Organic Make-up Co. considers fine or coarse particle sized titanium dioxide and other mineral pigments to be safe according to the studies available and information discussed in this article.
Despite repeated requests for micronized pigments in our colour cosmetics, we insist on using only coarse or fine particles of mineral pigments, balancing our need to look beautiful with our more pressing need to stay healthy. With the multitude of cosmetics and chemicals available to us, it is in our best interest to become informed as consumers and make pure, natural and simple choices to protect our health and longevity.
there is an interesting discussion of people who are removing their titanium implants. Many of them suffer from lyme or neurological symptoms.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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One of the posts there says:
--------------------------------
This is not a NEGATIVE site, actually a very POSITVE site. This is a site for anyone who have been through HELL with implants or with TITANIUM, or any METAL, like myself, who are trying to be positive and get help for themselves and for others with the same problem.
I had 4 implants done on 11/10 with very serious neurological, muscular, GI,etc. which started 1 week after implants were put in and weakness so severe, it crippled me. Both the dentist and oral surgeon were made aware of my problem with METAL before the implants.. But both assured me Titanium wouldn't be a problem. They were so WRONG.
But, I am persistant and never once did I give up or agree with any of the Medical people I met with over the past 4 years. THE DON"T KNOW ANYTHING about METAL TOXICITY.
But we do! And we are going to win, because we know more than them. So be proud of yourselves for what you are doing.
Now, 4 1/2 months after my implant removal, this past week I have started to see changes. Luckily, I have an ENT, who has told me he has recently received information on problems with TITANIUM, who agreed that the implants caused my my sinus problems.
My severely numb feet, I was told by a Neurologist that it was from Diabetes, is starting to decrease, my heels are less numb and my feet aren't as numb, my leg weakness, which I was told was Diabetes, has decreased. Diabetes doesn't work this way!
I am starting to sleep 3-4 hours at a time instead of being awake all night like I was for 8 months. My ringing of the ears, now every few days, it has quieted down, but still needs improvements, my sore throat is slightly less. My abdominal spasms, which were really severe has lessened.
Time to let the AMA and ADA know what has happened to us. Write to them in your state, let them know what happened to you. Don't be silent! They can't help us or anyone else if we don't communicate what has happened to all of us. BE POSITVE like you have been. Europe had numerous complaints over a decade ago with TITANIUM, why hasn't our FDA been on top of this?
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desertwind
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Thanks for all the information. Obviously alot to consider and think about. I need to get these root canals out but do not want to reintroduce more problems.
My oral surgeon does use zirconium implants but never on molars as he says they will not hold up under the biting pressure and will become problematic.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
Although the earliest dental implants were made of titanium, due to the fortuitous discovery of that metal’s osseointegration properties, patients now have another option for dental implant materials – zirconium.
In serving as the base for a replacement tooth, the zirconium-based implant has mechanics similar to a titanium one. An oral surgeon places the zirconium implant into the jaw, and over the course of several months, the implant fuses with the bone.
As such, a replacement tooth with a zirconium implant works in the same way as one with a titanium implant. Both devices are far superior to tooth replacement alternatives that do not replicate the tooth’s root in addition to the crown.
Dental implants in general are more stable, lifelike and functional than other options like bridges and dentures. Dental implants in general are more stable, lifelike and functional than other options like bridges and dentures.
Despite the similarities, zirconium implants do differ from their titanium counterparts in a number of important ways, though.
Although pure zirconium is technically a metal, based on its location on the periodic table, in zirconia—the form used for dental implants—its appearance is more similar to a ceramic. Because zirconium is white, it is more aesthetically pleasing and natural-looking. In fact, zirconium implants are almost visually indistinguishable from a biological tooth’s root.
Another quality of zirconia is its resistance to corrosion, which does not apply to titanium. Because titanium can be subjected to corrosion, although highly unlikely, the longevity and durability may be theoretically less than a zirconium one.
Zirconium implants also are hypoallergenic, giving patients with titanium allergies an alternative for dental implants.
Zirconium does have some radioactive isotopes, which is a concern to some patients, but that radioactivity presents minimal risk. In fact, the radiation exposure from a single zirconium implant is actually less than that of general background exposure found in the environment.
When planning for dental implants, ask your oral surgeon about the different materials that are available to you. Zirconium dental implants may be the solution that works for you.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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desertwind
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I found an oral surgeon in my area that uses zirconia implants and set up a consultation with him.
I already have my 3D Cone Scan of my lower jaw so we know exactly where my nerves run and how long the implant can be. I would never get the implant put in by a general dentist and or one that does not utilize such technology for fear of complications.
Thanks for all the info. DW
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