I know Zithro & other intracellulars are important (resistance reasons)but I didn't FEEL them killing/suppressing Bart like I did with the above mentioned.
And other herbals only seemed to agitate Bart or cause more flare ups. Mycobutin was a joke and I couldn't take Levaquin/Cipro.
surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I am copying this from the Internet. Dr. supervision required:
Tier One: Rifampin-based Treatments. In these treatments Rifampin is the main effective ingredient. I combine Rifampin 300mg 2 pills 1 time a day with one of the following: minocycline 100mg 1 pill 2 times a day, bactrim DS 1 pill 2 times a day or azithromycin (Zithromax) 500mg 1 pill time a day.
Doxycycline 100mg 1 or 2 2 times a day can be substituted for the minocycline, but rifampin decreases doxycycline levels in the blood.
Clarithromycin (Biaxin) 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day can be substituted for azithromycin but rifampin also decreases clarithromycin blood levels.
Flouroquinolone-based Treatments. Flouroquinolones are a class of antibiotics that include a number of members like levofloxacin (Levaquin) and ciprofloxacin (Cipro).
I combine levofloxacin 500mg 1 time a day or ciprofloxacin 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day with one of the following: minocycline 100mg 1 pill 2 times a day, doxycyline 100mg 1 to 2 pills 2 times a day, or bactrim ds 1 pill 2 times a day.
Clarithromycin and azithromycin are not used with flouroquinolones because together they may cause heart rhythm problems. Levofloxacin seems stronger than the ciprofloxacin.
Clarithromycin and Bactrim DS. I combine clarithromycin 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day with bactrim ds 1 pill 2 times a day with good benefit.
Tier Two: A Macrolide Plus a Tetracycline. Use one of the following macrolides: clarithromycin 500mg 1 pill two times a day or azithromycin 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day.
Combine these with a tetracycline: doxycycline 100mg 1 or 2 pills 2 times a day, minocycline 100mg 1 pill 2 times a day, or tetracycline 500mg 1 pill 3 times a day (note tetracycline is not available in the USA).
Tier Three: A-Bart by Byron White Formulas. These formulas are only available through qualified practitioners. Follow the directions of your physician.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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gigimac
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33353
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canefan17 what does the eleuthoro do? Is it supportive or does it actually kill the bart?
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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My personal experience was Rifampin slowly dosed , then alternating with factive .
But Fluoroquinolones, including Factive®, are associated with an increased risk of tendinitis and tendon rupture in all ages.
Important to note any tendon problems and stop treatment right away ,notify LLMD.
What I did was take magnesium everyday 2 hours after taking antibiotics,
And that has helped me with not having tendon issues.
I think Dr B. Wrote it in his guidelines or was on his DVD. That I received for joining lymedisease.org
Also have been using some nutramedix products which has helped with my bartonelia
Posts: 238 | From Where | Registered: Aug 2012
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Gigi, Indirectly it does through immune support. All of my Bartonella symptoms were greatly reduced while on Eleutherococcus and now Rhodiola primula (with other Adaptogens).
Suppressing Bart is more important than killing it. You will never kill all of the Bartonella in your body so you better find supportive ways to help the immune system keep it at bay/dormant.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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surprise
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Member # 34987
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The adaptogens (and the ones listed above) never did much for me, but I am taking ashwagandha every day for adrenal support- but don't really feel anything from it.
Quality Curcumin helps me immensely, however-
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
I think azithromycin and Bactrim and maybe Rifampin, I was given those three plus minocycline, probably for the BB. I was told I had BB and Bartonella.
However, I highly recommend against Bactrim and possibly Rifampin.
Bactrim is known to have a high rate of adverse reactions. I personally developed skin symptoms of blood spots which may have been caused by the Bactrim, but I was taking 3 other antibiotics.
Rifampin may also cause this.
Azithromycin is about the more "normal" antibiotic that is sometimes given for acne long term. Bactrim is not normally. Avoid multiple medications because you don't know what causes what.
You are already more likely to get side effects if you take antibiotics long term and pharmacists normally give them for short term and that is what side effects are recorded for. You may experience things not found before because of long term use.
If you really want to take long term antibiotics try to stick the more "normal" ones that are sometimes given long term. That excludes rifampin though because that is mostly used for TB and we don't get much of that in the industrialized world.
Some think Bactrim should be taken off the market. Look up the side effects that can happen.
Azithromycin should also always be taken with food to avoid GI symptoms.
I'm not sure of the test reliability for Bartonella. I was told based on microsopy.
I'm very suspect of lyme disease positive tests in general. From personal experience I could not see any improvement and only developed more health problems after starting antibiotics.
I developed a neurological condition called paresthesias. I get cold water and burning sensations and stinging all over my body after taking the 4 antibiotics my lyme disease doctor gave me.
I still get them 4 years later after stopping antibiotics. They come back at full force twice during upper respiratory infections and slowly go away over perhaps 18 months.
Some antibiotics cause tendon damage or gull bladder damage. Do not take anything without finding out about this.
Posts: 136 | From arlington, VA | Registered: Jun 2010
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I think this infection is underestimated and under treated. I had done years of double intracellulars and many rounds of Septra (Bactrim). I also did a couple of months on Rifampin but they were so rough I changed out the protocol.
I have treated all of my infections very aggressively, or so I thought I was.
I went off from abx even through I wasn't symptom free, I have never been symptom free.
We gutted and replaced all water damaged things in our house, got the ERMI down to a 1. I also did a good portion of the mold protocols long term (years).
When I went off abx I felt pretty bad, only to feel even worse after a month. It was the Bart...
I went back on abx, Mino, Zithro, and Septra for 8 weeks, then on to Rifampin (full dose), with Mino, and Zithro. I'm also pulsing Tindamax.
The herxing was unbelievable for the first six weeks or so, I'm eight weeks in and I'm still pretty rough but the intense muscle and joint pain has subsided a bit.
My conclusion is that the only thing that will kill it is Rifampin or Levaquin (which I just was on for four days because my tendons were aching).
I also think that people can develop resistance to these by doing low doses, and stopping and starting. I do not feel that bad when I'm not killing Bart and suppressing it with double intracellulars and Septra too. Maybe about 85-90 percent.
I am really starting to believe that this infection is what is keeping me from getting symptom free. I think it needs to be treated long term with Rifampin and another abx to prevent resistance, of Levaquin if tolerated.
It really is blowing my mind how much I have been herxing off Rifampin considering how good I felt with abx that just suppress.
Of course I don't think this applies to everyone, this is just my deal.
Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
copied the following:
'Additionally, Dr. Breitschwerdt has published evidence that Bartonella infection can be transmitted from mothers to infants at birth.
Antimicrobial drugs that can enter the cell are used most frequently for treating Bartonella infection in humans, but the infection has not been eliminated in all patients treated with antibiotics that should be effective.
There is increasing evidence of treatment failures in people with normal immune systems, and it is not uncommon to see relapses in immunocompromised patients who were treated for six weeks or longer.'
RC1, Bartonella affects me personally very deeply- my daughter has PANS, with what clearly looks like Bartonella as the root. Recent Myco testing negative on all fronts, even IgG.
We look to go back to treating her, after very difficult previous treatment, and more testing, in June. We took a long break for her. I don't know what else to say. I wish I could put my head in the sand.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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