posted
I posted this in the "seeking a doctor" section, but my question is really more general than that so I wanted to re-post it here:
I was diagnosed with Lyme and Bartonella back in December and have been seeing an LLMD here in NYC (Dr. R), but I have an opportunity to move to Germany this summer. I'd love to move there, but I'm a little hesitant to change locations while still undergoing treatment.
I wanted to ask what people's thoughts are on Lyme treatment in Germany. From what I can tell, Lyme disease treatment there seems to be generally better than in the US, but does anyone have first-hand knowledge? What are the protocols like?
I'll be in Berlin, but I'm open to traveling within the country for treatment if necessary. I know there's a clinic near Munich (the BCA clinic), but apart from that, I don't know of any LLMDs there or what they're like.
Any info would be greatly appreciated! Or just opinions in general. Has anyone drastically changed locations like this while undergoing treatment? I'm a little concerned about the stress of that as well.
Alex
Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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hiker53
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Sixgoofy, I and a few others got some alternative photon treatment in Pforzheim--near Stuggart.
Sixgoofy is well and I am much better.
I imagine the standard treatment there is pretty good, although I can't say for sure.
I wonder if they treat for different strains than we have. I think the way they test for Lyme is different, but I read that several years ago, so my info may be outdated.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8879 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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CherylSue
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Camping is really popular in Germany, and I'm sure Lyme Disease is pretty common there, especially in the southern part. German doctors are not wild about giving antibiotics though.
Good luck.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I read a little bit about the photon treatment. Sounds very interesting. It seems like doctors use it as an alternative to antibiotics, no? How long does it take? And should I ask how much it costs??? :/
CherylSue, yes, that's my concern, but luckily my LLMD here, Dr. R in NY, does phone consultations with people abroad so I could still receive prescriptions from him if necessary.
I would prefer to continue seeing someone in person though.
Also go to the Lymenet directory and search for Guido. He is from Germany and I am sure will be very helpful, tho he has not posted in a while he may still log on. Try PMing him. Also, search in the directory for others who live in Germany or Europe. They can probably offer advice.
I do believe there is decent treatment in Germany. I'm sure you still have search for it but it's a hot spot for Lyme.
I contacted Guido and will hopefully hear back from him soon. And I'll try contacting other members from Germany as well.
I do read German, but the more medical texts will probably go over my head. I'll check it out though.
Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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Brussels
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I live just next to Konstanz, but on the Swiss part.
I did the photon treatment at home, but I suppose going to dr. W would be the fastest and best.
I dont think only photons will deal with everything, but it will make the load of borrelia going down, and then you can treat other things much easier.
Photon treatment was the treatment that put my lyme dormant for good, and so for my daughter. I am exactly 5 years lyme free. My daughter, for about 3 years, as she got a minor relapse.
But we had done so much before (on the cleaning part, teeth, cavitations, chelation, hormone balancing, loads of Buhner, Cowden tinctures, acupressure non stop for 4 years before we tried photons). Photon treatment was the last treatment for our lyme.
Now we are still treating the KPU, so that we don't fall so sick again. We are STILL being bitten by ticks, but not falling sick, so far.
Berlin has got a lot of Dr K practioners too. You can find them at the Institute of Neurobiology. I would do Dr K's method to keep healthy in the long term.
They can help you with allergies, rebuilding the flora, chelationg, cavitations, traumas etc. Of course, these are all alternatives.
If you would like antibiotics, there are other doctors in Germany also using pulsed antibiotics. The logic is though opposite: kill first, then rebuild the body to fix the damage of antibiotics.
Dr K optic is: clean first, correct the body, use killers if necessary, but the aim is to make your immune system alive again. It is a long term commitment.
I go to the right hand of him near Freiburg, sometimes. She's one of the best, but Berlin is pretty far. I'd rather try someone in Berlin first, someone recommended by the dr. K's Institute (INK).
linky123
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posted
We also went to Germany for tx with the photons. When we were there, Dr W only tx the lyme.
I think he now tx co-infections as well.
We were there for 4 weeks.
It worked for us; I am much better, functional, and my kids are in remission.
If I lived in Germany, I would definitely look into it.
Dr W and his staff a amazing.
-------------------- 'Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.' Matthew 11:28 Posts: 2607 | From Hooterville | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Wow, thank you for the info, Brussels and Linky.
Does Dr. W also treat with antibiotics or just photon therapy? I'm becoming more and more interested in photon therapy, but I would prefer a doctor who uses both.
I was reading about the Borreliose Centrum Augsburg clinic near Munich, and I think they do both kinds of treatment (as well as bunch of others) but I'm not sure.
In any case, it's good to know I'll have good options there.
How long does the photon therapy take?
Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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linky123
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The photons and abx tx don't mix well. Dr W wanted us off abx for a few weeks before the tx.
The tx with the photons (Bionic 880) took about 4 weeks - two tx per week along with an IV afterward for detox to support the liver and kidneys.
I also got ozone infusions. He doesn't give ozone to the kids.
IMHO the photons are a much more effective tx that the abx and without the side effects.
I did herx tho', thought my head would explode from the headaches, but it was well worth it.
-------------------- 'Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.' Matthew 11:28 Posts: 2607 | From Hooterville | Registered: Apr 2009
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Well, I meant does he offer antibiotic and photon treatments separately? I guess I prefer to a see a doctor with more tricks up his sleeve. That's what caught my eye about the BCA clinic, the range of different treatments they offer.
Anyway, I have a lot more research to do!
But I'm definitely feeling better about moving to Germany. Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
On the other hand, I'll still be in touch with my American LLMD anyway so I guess that wouldn't be such a big issue. And a lot of people are recommending Dr. W.
I'll definitely bear him in mind.
Thanks again!
Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
When I went to Germany (3 years ago) Dr. W. was already treating Bartonella and Babesia too.
However, 5 weeks that I spent there was not enough to eradicate all pathogens, I continued to treat at home with PE1
Posts: 443 | From Montreal, Canada | Registered: Oct 2009
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hiker53
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Dr. W does not treat with antibiotics. He is a MD and a chiropractor, but prefers to use photons.
However, he does not disbelieve in western medicine. I believe a member of lymenet got appendicitis when she was being treated by Dr. W and he sent her to a good surgeon.
I do recommend treating parasitic worms first. I wish I had done that working from larger pathogens to smaller pathogens.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8879 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Thank you for clarifying that, hiker!
Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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hiker53
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Dr. W will also recommend that you live in a place without wireless in order to get well. I think that is hard to do in some cities or apartment buildings/workplaces.
But if he treats you with photons you should stay somewhere for awhile without wireless and there is a nice guesthaus in a small town near Pforzheim where many of us have stayed.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8879 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
posted
You could still do both treatments separately. But I don't see the point in doing both antibiotics and photons for the same reason - borrelia.
I would concentrate much more on trying to fix my immune system once borrelia load is lower, so that I do not fall sick again with it in the future.
The Augsburg clinic is well known for antibiotic treatment, it seems. But really, I fought CANDIDA and fungal infections for LONGER than borreliosis, and I am STILL fighting candida now and then.
Candida is even harder to erradicate than borrelia and it can be deadly too. So I wouldn't trade lyme for candida in no way, unless I was dying with lyme and had no other choice in treatment.
You can see that many people that are lyme free are still fighting candida years later after their lyme is under control. This is taken very lightly here, but I swear that candida is even a more stubborn pathogen to treat.
Anyway, if that is your choice, you can do both Dr W and then go for antibiotics after. Not simultaneously though.
Candida is even harder to erradicate than borrelia and it can be deadly too. So I wouldn't trade lyme for candida in no way, unless I was dying with lyme and had no other choice in treatment.
You can see that many people that are lyme free are still fighting candida years later after their lyme is under control. This is taken very lightly here, but I swear that candida is even a more stubborn pathogen to treat.
- Totally true and totally agree!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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I'm still new to this and only started on antibiotics in December. Not quite ready to give up on them yet, but I'm interested in alternative forms of treatment later on if the antibiotics don't work.
And obviously if I did try the photon therapy and it worked, then I wouldn't do antibiotics afterwards because there would be no reason to do so.
Posts: 22 | From NYC | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
You might find this blog from a person who went to Germany helpful:
"For the photon treatment, the Bionic 880 is no longer used. Instead, it's another machine with the LED applicator looking exactly like a mini travel hairdryer."
posted
I also got well from photon treatment. I got substantially better in the 3 weeks with Dr. W, then continued to treat at home. I bought a Bionic 880 while over there, but I know many now use the PE1, which is the same type of light and more affordable.
I used abx for almost 2 years and reached a point where I was having ups and downs based on which meds I was on. I didn't seem to actually get well on the abx, just stuck where I was. I knew I needed something different to actually get well. I went to Germany in 2008, the infections seemed to be eradicated in 2009, and I'm still well today.
Photons is not stand alone. You still need exercise, detox, nutrients (many get depleted with illness), good diet and sleep. You have to heal the body, not just kill the infection.
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