tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I just got my test results back from Metametrix. They showed they I have a lactobacillus overgrowth and they recommended that I take a D-LACTATE FREE probiotic.
I searched this site about this and apparently this is a widely unrecognized phenomena b/c no one else has ever posted on here about lactobacillus overgrowth and the need for D-lactate free probiotics Every just says "Take therelac, take therelac!".
I was taking Therelac for presumed yeast. The Metametrix testing also revealed that I have a NON-CANDIDA YEAST OVERGROWTH despite taking Therelac and although I'm not positive, the Therelac may have caused the lactobacillus overgrowth. I was not taking more than the recommended dosage by the way and was probably taking far less actually. Therelac does not appear to be D-lactate free.
Excessive D-lactate can cause neurological and digestive problems amongst other things.
I thought it was important to post this info since there is virtually no info on here that even closely resembles this from what I can see and I'm sure I'm not the only one in this boat.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
There HAVE been studies posted about this. I'm not sure if you could find them in the archives or not.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I'm sorry if I was mistaken. I guess just b/c I couldn't find them doesn't mean they're not on here. My mistake.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Funny, everytime I give my daughter a d-lactate free probiotic (Custom probiotics makes one- powder form)
she adversely reacts to it. I've tried 3 times with it, same result.
I don't really understand it. She also had a Metamatrix stool test, this particular issue did not come up.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
Uh oh! I just ordered Custom Priobiotic D-lactate free powder.
Maybe she is experiencing a die-off?
Thanks Tutu, I'll check it out.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
Still don't see anyone that had test results of lactobacillus overgrowth and needing d-lactate free probiotics. Gonna search Metametrix on here to see who has tested through them.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did you have bad SYMPTOMS from the lactobacillus overgrowth? Maybe it's nothing to worry about?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I'm very symptomatic but who knows which infection is causing the symptoms. But having excessive d-lactate in the body is no joke.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I believe it's the by-product from the lactobacillus that causes problems-toxic.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
is this ok?
Posts: 158 | From NJ | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I think it's ok as long as someone doesn't have a lactobacillus overgrowth like myself. I am surprised that I have a lactobacillus overgrowth but I'm sure I'm not alone.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
You very well may have a very favorable outcome with the Custom D-lactate free-
it is one of their most popular- kids on the spectrum with leaky guts, doing bio-med, buy this one, I think...
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I really hope I do well with it being so expensive!
I'm sorry your daughter doesn't do well with it.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
Thank you for this post Tickled....it's timely Maybe this is what's wrong with me now.
I have not taken abx for a year and a half. I haven't cheated on my diet and I've got yeast ??
I take 6 caps of Benebiotics a day......
lactobacillus acidophilus
I wondered if maybe I've developed an allergy to it, but maybe it's an overgrowth like you have.
How much is that Metametrix test?
Maybe I should just switch probiotics. I wonder if I could get by with no probiotics and kefir alone.
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
Does VSL#3 have lactobacillus?
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
I posted about this remember? But cant recall topic subject
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
About $1000 for tests. I got a freebie b/c of a relative of mine in the medical field attended a seminar and received free kits. I was incredibly lucky that he thought of me and let me use them. It was 2 different Metametrix tests. The TRIAD profile and GI Effects Comprehensive Profile.
Yes, VSL#3 has lactobacillus.
No Randi, I don't remember. Do you have lactobacillus overgrowth and excess D-lactate?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
Above article is very interesting and mentions a lot of the things I mentioned.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
nope but i was concerned about taking so many probiotics cause i have severe ibs. so i goggled and found an article where a woman died from candida overgrowth. she had been taking a ton of probiotics. the drs said this contributed to her death.
thought it was interesting cause i was taking 3-4 different strands so i posted it.
also i had c. diff and that's why i was taking so many.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
Do you know how the probiotics played a role in her death?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
she had candida and she was taking too many probiotics which doctors said fed these particular kind of candida.
i think...so don't quote me. but if you goggle on it i'm sure you can find it. i'm just not that good at doing links and all.
please keep in mind that this was an elderly woman who had other health issues. it's only one case.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
The probiotics fed the candida? Is that possible?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Probably fed a type of yeast, not necessarily candida.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
So Probiotics can feed non-candida yeast?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Instead of guessing if you have a certain overgrowth of bacteria or fungi, you could ask your doctor to order a Metametrix test kit to check for bacteria, fungi, and parasites. They have cheaper ones that do not cost $1,000.
This is the test that my doctor recommended. Microbial Ecology Profile-METAMETRIX KIT $268 "Uses DNA analysis to test stool for bacteria, fungi/yeast, and parasites."
I recently received my results and was at the very low end of normal for the lactobacillus sp. and bifidobacter sp.
My results were clearly much different than tickled's. It would be best if you asked your doctor to recommend or order a test for you also. Don't assume that you have overgrowth of lactobacillus and stop taking probiotics, you may actually need them!
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
sammy... what do you click on when you get to the site you posted??
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
Metmetix does offer other tests. The ones I had are the most comprehensive to my knowledge. The test sammy mentions was part of the tests I had done.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Wow... really interesting. (Sorry you are not well, though.) First time I'm hearing about this.
Women's Health Update: Cytolytic Vaginosis; A Vaginitis You May Not Have Heard About
Cytolytic vaginosis(CV) is the current term for a condition of lactobacilli overgrowth. It is a little recognized but common cause of cyclic vulvovaginal complaints in women of reproductive age. CV is often misdiagnosed as candidiasis and most women have tried many antifungal medications both conventional and alternative, with little or no relief.
---
Seems like it could happen elsewhere in the body - like in the mouth or intestinal tract.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Lymetoo, on the right hand side of the page there is an option/link to "Browse Tests"
Then again on the right hand side of the page select "Gastrointestinal"
Then you can scroll down and find the "Microbial Ecology Profile"-METAMETRIX KIT. Or whatever GI test kit you and your doctor might want to order.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
Thanks for that link Sparkle
I think I have this. Not sure what to do. Stop taking my lactobacillus probiotics? (I'm not on abx)
I have also been using lactobacillus suppositories which I definitely will stop.
I can't afford to do any labs. Suppose when I get desperate enough I will order the Custom Probiotic D-lactate free powder, but it's awfully expensive.
There has been no change in my diet... I can't understand where all this yeast has come from. It's uncomfortable to say the least.
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
The article says try baking soda sitzbaths. I guess you could drink it in water or put it in empty capsules.
I guess the key is balance. I read that it's really hard to repopulate the intestinal tract (probably other areas) with the proper balance of bacteria. We are supposed to get it at birth & from drinking breast milk from a mother who has the correct balance.
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I really don't want anyone to change what they are doing based on what I am saying. I'm not saying this is a problem for everyone but wanted to make you guys aware of the possibility as clearly it can happen and did happen to me to my surprise.
sparkle-I was not breastfed as a baby b/c as my mother said "it wasn't in fashion". Supposedly I also projectile vomited as an infant. My gut has probably been destroyed since birth. No wonder I'm sick. I have always been a sickly kid/person with things getting progressively worse throughout life. I am now 36. I knew something was very wrong in my mid-20's. Also undiagnosed POTS symptoms as a teenager.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
I think I have this. Not sure what to do. Stop taking my lactobacillus probiotics? (I'm not on abx)
I have also been using lactobacillus suppositories which I definitely will stop.
- Please do not stop taking probiotics!! What if you are wrong and the yeast goes rampant!!
Thanks, sammy!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
I'll compromise and cut back from 6 caps a day to 4.
I seem to match that article Sparkle sent. A sitz bath last night offered relief and I accidently used soap in the shower this morning which just flared it.
I might just have to break down and order that Custom powdered probiotic.
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
If you have a lactobacillus overgrowth, you probably need to stop taking that particular one. I'm not a doctor, though.
Maybe you can find a different probiotic that doesn't have that one in it? There are many brands of probiotics. Florastor is Saccharomyces boulardii lyo. I'm sure there are others. Chloraphyll helps the good bacteria florish - maybe that could help to bring back a balance?
I wasn't breastfed either, so don't feel bad. We get alot of the bacteria that is beneficial during birth & through breastfeeding. I'm sure alot of people are having problems in this area. If you never get these good bacteria, it's hard to repopulate your mucosal linings when you are an adult.
There's a huge initiative called the human microbiome project that is exploring this area of health.
posted
Wow - interesting information. Have a follow up question...
My 7 year old daughter has been taking abx & malarone for lyme/babs for several months now. We've been giving her probiotics with lacto + bifido the entire time, with no problems.
But in the last month, she has gone through dramatic changes in personality, with extreme anxiety and irritability, plus is suddenly having difficulty completing tasks at home. (Am currently checking with her teacher to find out if she is also having this trouble at school.)
Seems like having the Metametrix test might be a good idea (she was tested through Genova prior to abx treatment and did not have any gut or yeast issues at the time). Other possible causes - could it be that the abx/malarone have plateaued and we need to modify her meds? Or, could this be just developmental?
Posts: 348 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Don't forget those with a MTHFR mutation and those who can't tolerate "normal" doses of meds may also experience problems.
And the ingredient "FOS"- good for the probiotic- may cause a lot of gas and gas pains for some people.
tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I'm suspecting I have MTHFR. Just don't know what to do about it.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I bumped this thread up, how interesting >2 years ago I posted about my dd not responding well at the time to d-lactate free probiotics,
and just get back yesterday results on current Metametrix/ Genova ION test (really comprehensive) and it shows she has very high d-lactate overgrowth, which can cause problems!
Good grief. I am going to get out this circle one day, right?! Good news, I guess, just about everything else was level, including yeast, fatty acids, metals, MTHFR, etc.
except low in a few amino acids. FYI: good to check other systems and gut in the body. 13 nails in the foot and all that.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic