Lymedin2010
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Member # 34322
posted
Has anyone heard of an Air Wiker air purifier? I am not too sure if that is the exact spelling.
Supposedly some Lymies reported herxing with this air filter when in use.
Hard to believe, but anything is possible given how sick & sensitive some of us are.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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- Is it new? Is it sitting in the sun?
Even if not new, it could be the off-gassing of the petroleum / plastic parts . . . and any possible flame retardants used.
Even if not sitting in the sun, when it runs, the motor (or even a tiny battery?) gets warm and any chemicals can be more easily detected. Even if it doesn't seem warm, it may be just warm enough to do that vs. when it's off.
Now, I truly hope this is not the situation as one would think an air filter mfg. would try to find the safest materials. But that can be very hard. And it's something we need to consider with all the plastics we bring into our homes.
I have a terrible time with any of them. It took a full year before I could be around my computer modem without the windows all being open when I got near it . . . even when it was off, though, but when on, even the little bit of heat from the modem intensified that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Oh, I Googled "Air Wiker air purifier" and could find no such link to better understand how the product works. If you post a link, that would help.
You aren't by chance taking about Air Wick, are you? Hope not but, if so, that would explain a lot. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lymedin2010
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posted
I checked too, but I could not find the name online anywhere. Maybe I did not spell it correctly?
I have no link either & that is what I am looking for. New products can cause chemical sensitivity, that is absolutely true.
Nice to see you back Keebler, I thought you were gone there for a while. Do you find that most Lymies are chemical sensitive & have allergies? My chemical sensitivity has gone through the roof after some heavy black mold exposure.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- Yes, I deal with MCS, as do many with lyme.
Mold is another whole level to this. I hope that has been mediated by a professional, or with advice and work by someone with all the safety gear.
You aren't still living around black mold, are you? Has it been tested to see if it's "stacy botrus" That is not the spelling, but that spelling, crossed search with mold WILL bring up correct spelling and why this particular one is one that you cannot coexist with.
There are also some support sites that might better be able to help you with the best path forward.
Do look up LISA NAGY direct website. She is NOT a LLMD but knows a lot about lyme and has presented at ILADS conferences on mold issues. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- thanks for your comment. I've been back more due mainly to noise in the area . . . hiding out in my closet den /cove. Can't think to do anything else. But also keep thinking this will help my brain wake up to do other tasks. That's not working so when I see something I can relate to, I just go for it.
I could tolerate no air purifier at all. I use plants, instead . . . grow them in water and they flourish and the water never gets moldy. Amazing.
the water is not discussed here but that's part is pretty easy. Taller wide mouth glass vases or Book: "How to Grow Fresh Air" by B.C. Wolverton (check your library and local independent book stores)canisters with a good heft to them for stability. Sit them inside a pretty something else.
A little research as to what kinds do best in water. Phillodenhron do great. I know that is not the spelling. I'm melted toast right now and have to stop. It's just too hot and my little tiny AC is just too tiny. Time to pack on some ice. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Not sure of the exact species, since I did not have it tested. No remediation, just having someone paint the entire floor where the mold was at.
Water leak stopped, new hot water heater & sheet rock with mold removed.
I can't enter my own home anymore since I feel so toxic there, but I am the only one who feels like that. So I am staying at a family members place now.
I am sure I won't be able to enter the home, even after it has been painted. I don't know if I can afford remediation really. all the other costs are taking a toll already.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- I understand. Some things just have to be put on back burner and we do the best we can for ourselves.
Was ALL the mold removed? Be sure of that. If you are still reacting, there may still be mold there. Zero part should have been painted over as that could still spread under the paint and come out later.
And, mold could have traveled all over during the process if it was not sealed off. THAT's my concern.
or (if all other parts of house and air vents were sealed) you could be reacting to the new building materials and paint used.
Or damaged from it (and still dealing with lyme) so you are the one more affected. But if the other parts were not sealed off, others can still be affected, too.
Sorry. Lisa Nagy went through all this, so I hope you will search out her website and her work on this. Find out what she did and what you can do within your means even if not all that she did. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Mold is really hard to deal wuth
I dont understand why you are using the word herx in the title
Do you think the air cleaner is killing Bb? That would cause a herx...but i dont understand how an air cleaner could kill lyme...by increasing o2?
If you are talking about off gassing or mcs that is a reaction not a herx, right?
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
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posted
- Good point, lpkayak.
Feeling worse (whatever the reason) is not always a herxheimer reaction, even during treatment
(although it can be hard to isolate the cause sometimes so it's good that liver support helps a wide range of reactions -- although not as specific or entailed for those with mold issues).
(She is NOT A LLMD, however, she understands the kind of toxicity issues faced by many with lyme. She did not have lyme but overcame very serious MCS. She spoke at the 2011 & 2012 annual ILADS conferences.
Her home & mold . . . quite a process she encountered. And she won. I know for those without funds, it can be discouraging to read of how others won when we cannot even come close to doing what they did. And I'm sorry about that and even hesitate posting "here's what you can do" so often.
Still, within all this, there may be some steps that are within reach. I hope so. It's sure been my routine to always figuring out, "well, what's the most basic thing I must do that is possible?" . . . or if porphyria plays any role, what must I avoid.
Mold can be terrible for someone with one of any kind of porphyria. Be sure to read that detail for what else to avoid (certain medicines) just in case your porphyrin load is too high.
. . . Disorders of Porphyrinopathy . . . [there is Porphyria detail in the Liver Links] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Environmental Illness Resource -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Since I can't find that air filter anywhere, just to be sure, it's not an OZONE machine, is it? IF so, THAT can be very dangerous to be around when running IF past a particular very, very, VERY low setting. Ozone can destroy the lungs.
the kinds used at higher ozone output to address mold are to be used with no person or pet around . . . unit placed very near the entry door -- or if not that is not possible, plugged into an outlet very near an exit / entry door so that you can hold breath, pull plug, run back out, open door, windows in increments as holding breath will allow.
After first window / door set (2 for a cross current) opened, wait a few minutes before going back in to open more. Be careful when going into upper floors, it can be more intense there.
Then, not go back in for 20 minutes after it's aired out very well. And with all levels of home aired out, too, all rooms, every closest, attic if there is any air exchange to that area. -
[ 07-16-2014, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Marnie
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posted
Looking at this?
Honeywell wicker filter? Dehumidifier filter?
Okay...an ozone generator will work too to clear fungus/mold/pet odors/smoke.
Follow the directions exactly!!! - set it up and
leave the house. It is NOT healthy for us to breathe ozone.
When you return, quickly open the house up and leave again for a short time.
Before you hit the start button, be sure to set your thermostat FAN on constant "on" so the ozone will go thru your ductwork too.
The machines run about $125. They are used after house fires too...to rid smoke odors.
The home will smell very "clean" for a long time afterwards.
I ran it max. time in a 2400 sq.ft. ranch Florida home.
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Lymedin2010
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posted
I think water was evaporating from my reef tank & it also accumulated in small amounts on my windows, around the silicone.
I have some on my silicone in the tub too & it has to be scrubbed away regularly & also around the toilet.
I used a professional gas mask to enter & remove the sheet rock & insulation affected the most from the hot water heater. The leak is contained, but I can smell & taste the wretched air. I am sure spores are everywhere & contaminated the house.
I also used MOLDEX from Home Depot on the floor & studs of affected area. It is supposed to kill mold, but also is toxic to humans.
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Lymedin2010
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Hmmmm, it could be the Honeywell. I was told about it by my LLMD & about the herxing, so I gather it must be true.
What I noticed about myself is that now when I go into any store I can smell everything around & it is so annoying. I could very quickly feel toxic & just want to leave. It has been building up during the 3 years I was chronically sick, but most recently went through the roof with mold exposure.
I am very tempted to try ozone & leave the house for the duration. Do you think it will KILL the spores & odor? I have 1300 sq ft upstairs & another 1300 downstairs & I would run it in 3 separate areas.
I will read Lisa Nagy's site tonight.
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lpkayak
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posted
Ozone doesnt kill mold spores nothing kills mold spores except disseminating them - good remediators use dry ice to do this
Ozone does make them go dormant. If you use a good/real ozone machine to mske them dormant and at the same time have a top hepa air filter going you will cspture the spores and cn get rid of them appropriately
Honeywell makes an excellent hepa air filter but it doesnt kill mold or mke it dormant...its possible it would catch some live spores but without ozone i dont think you would solve the problem
I have a construction grade ozine machine. It cost 500. And can be very dangerous. You cant use it near ppl, pets or plants. Mine is powerful enough to clean the car or a small room in 20 min. My house is 1000sf and directions say never more than two hours at a time...it can hurt wires,tvs etc if on too long
Everything marnie said is true...you have to be very careful
I removed all mold and corrected moisture priblems
In my little house in the north i have 3 ac and 2 dehumidufyers and one good aircleaner
And a diffuser i use thieves oil in
I have little guages in most rooms that measure temp and humidity...and i still react immediately if there is mold...no one else smells it but i know
After the removal,remediation and correction of moisture problems i still had to use the ozone machine and air filter regularly for a yer to mop up all the leftover spores
You need to keep humidity below 50 and 40 is better...spores are everywhere...the key is to change the environment so they cant grow and give off toxins
You cant trust companys that say anything besides dry ice will kill mold
The only ozone machines that really make it dormant are the ones that say you cant run them with ppl, pets and plants
The ones that say you can stay in room are very weak and dont really make mold go dormant...if it has a hepa filter attached it may catch some spores and make you feel better
I cant believe so many companies advertise they kill mold. There used to be something called false advertising but it isnt used now i guess. Companies can say whatever they want
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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desertwind
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posted
I spoke with Lisa Nagy a couple weeks ago and am having her come to my house. I got rid of alot of hidden/black mold but think there might be more.
She is $$$$$ but seems to be well worth it if you have a concern w/ mold in your home.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Marnie
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posted
Dry ice is a tick "lure" (they sense the CO2 we exhale)...(solid)CO2 = dry ice
Does it kill mold spores or
just REMOVE them (dry ice blasting):
Upon contact, the dry ice converts from solid form to a harmless gas, leaving no messy residue to clean up.
The freezing process creates no airborne blasting powder that can carry mold spores to uncontaminated areas.
After ice blasting,
the surface is HEPA vacuumed
to remove any contamination missed by the blasting procedure.
As a third precaution,
the HEPA-cleaned surface is then
wiped down with detergent and anti-microbial solution.
(We also use CO2 - fire extinguishers - to "freeze" big wasp nests so we can remove them...chill those nasty insects into dormancy and then kill them with insecticides.
Carbon Dioxide fire extinguishers extinguish fire by ***taking away the oxygen element*** of the fire triangle and ***also*** by removing the heat with a very cold discharge.)
Re: ozone and mold spores...some is helpful, more is really helpful (?) based on this:
High Ozone Shock Treatments blasted
into unoccupied rooms can safely kill mold *spores* and
sanitize infected areas.
Low levels of air purification ozone can be used to kill airborne spores.
From a more "natural solution":
Producing negative ions: Plant leaves produce negative ions, similar to many air purifying machines.
Negative ions attach themselves to (and effectively remove) particles such as dust, *mold spores*, bacteria, and allergens.
The presence of negative ions is credited for increasing psychological health, productivity, and overall well-being.
Clean up - many use a 50% Clorox solution _1/2 water, 1/2 Clorox).
Here's an approved cleaner too:
Foster 40-80 Disinfectant - for not only "solid" surfaces!
A whole house HEPA filter system is helpful for removing those spores that are AIRBORNE, but if the mold is attached to and growing on the ductwork, in the drywall - porous, etc. additional extensive and costly remedies have to be employed.
Living in a very humid climate (Florida), we have and run an IQ air filter constantly. It is an expensive machine and consists of 3 filters...pre, charcoal, and HEPA. The replacement filters are expensive...very...esp. the HEPA which lasts about 2 years.
It helps when the pollen level is high here too i.e., in the spring when our outdoor furniture is constantly covered with yellow-green pollen.
Antigens = proteins. That is what we react to.
Molds are considered to be antigens.
Here is what happens when we are exposed to INDOOR (not outdoor) molds:
posted
Kayak... Thanks for the info on the ozone. I didn't know you could only run it for two hours at a time (even when gone). When they clean our AC next week, I was going to run the ozone 24/7 .. but I guess now I won't do that!
Marnie .. What is an "IQ" air filter? I hate that HEPA filters are so expensive. GRRR!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lymedin2010
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posted
It is hard to believe what we have to go through as Lyme patients, the obstacles are just unfathomable.
What a great video from Lisa Nagy. My wife actually "listened" to it since it came from a MD.
Are there any scientific articles as to what actually kills mold & mold spores?
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- Did you ever clarify the kind of machine you have?It's really important to know if you might be putting ozone out with that.
Once you see the exact name, model, etc. also search for any product recalls that might have been made on this.
If it's a new plastic, you may need to get it out of your home for a couple months to a place where it can really air out / "cure". Hope that's not the issue but if it is, I have found no other way than the banish the item from my presence until it's "aged" a bit.
Regardless of why (unless it is ozone and was on way too high), if you are sure this unit is making you feel worse, if new, you should be able to return it, no questions asked.
No air filter / purifier, when used properly, should make you feel worse. Ever. -
[ 07-18-2014, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Marnie
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Member # 773
That is the unit we have. Normally our air conditioners (often on in Florida - lol) lower the humidity level (remove water which goes out thru a tube outside the house, usually),
but air conditioners don't "clean" the air - they just lower the humidity and temperature.
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lpkayak
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posted
Tutu-it depends on the machine. Mine is construction grade-one of lrgest and most powerful made. You cant by this at lowes or easily
Its important to follow directions that come with machine. Mine is hard to get at right now or i would give you numbers...its probably in old posts
But most that you buy at the store are much weaker and not dangerous...
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lpkayak
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posted
Marnie-that is one monster air cleaner. I never saw one like that and never heard of hyper hepa
I bought my honeywell about 5 yrs ago and it was one of the best
That would collect mold spores if they werr dormant and some that were in the air still live. But i dont think it would pull active mold out of wall etc...mold roots go in deep
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Supposedly hospitals used that machine during the SARS outbreak. We've had it for many years.
If I'm not mistaken...Swiss made.
It is NOT QUIET. We typically run it on the 3rd speed level to reduce the sound.
Repeating...EPA approved cleaner for walls, etc. - things that are more porous (drywall, etc.)=
Foster 40-80 Disinfectant. Supposedly it is the "best" to rid mold.
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