LymeNet Flash: VERY interesting!!! Lyme Bb avoid immune system by switching out .....

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»	LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » VERY interesting!!! Lyme Bb avoid immune system by switching out .....

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Topic: VERY interesting!!! Lyme Bb avoid immune system by switching out .....

Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

posted

...manganese for iron

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/24/lyme-disease-bacteria-immune-system-iron_n_2934134.html

I just read something today about iron and Parkinson's .. perhaps this is the connection?

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged |

Robin123
Moderator
Member # 9197

posted

I have a friend who is like a sinkhole for taking manganese - just tons of it - wonder if she's replenishing her own need for it or whether she's feeding the bacteria!

Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

posted

Manganese or magnesium?

Most people have no clue about manganese. I don't know what the symptoms of low manganese would be.

Recognizing low magnesium is much easier.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged |

Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

posted

Bb avoids the immune system by switching to L-forms.

The connection is more likely K2.

Gram neg. pathogens (lyme and co.) have a love for ubiquinol (CoQ10) and K2 (menaquinone - specifically MK-7)

Parkinson's and K2:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120511101240.htm

BTW...find Wiki's explanation of hypericin and watch for dopamine mentioned. (Ya know, of course, dopamine levels drop in PK, right?)

The conversion of K1 to K2 takes place in the mitochondria...when they are WORKING PROPERLY.

MitoQ (fully oxidized component - one of three- in CoQ10) + D3 with K2 for mitochondrial support to make a LOT more ATP which drives Mg back into the cell -> Mg-ATP.

Mg is an anti-histamine, anti-inflammatory and

HMG CoA reductase inhibitor (functions like statins).

Kiss Bb's cell walls goodbye.

CWD/L-forms...hit with Glycox (berberine chloride).

Doxy works if STAT...to inhibit the inflammatory response and block the MMPs (metalloproteinases that cleave/chop apart the proteins) when first exposed to Bb.

Glycox does the same and more.

Try to stick with me...

"Experiments were performed to conclusively prove that

peptidoglycan synthesis was required for the

survival of the L-forms

by removing the supply of peptidoglycan precursors.

***Inhibiting
any of the three different cytosolic steps

in the synthesis of peptidoglycan destroyed L-form growth,*** and provided corroborating evidence that L-forms did not tolerate complete loss of peptidoglycan.

Their mutant studies indicated that colony formation

required

***D-glutamate***,

diaminopimelate,

and MurA enzyme activity,

which are all specific for

synthesis of peptidoglycan.

http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Gerald-J-Domingue/2010/09/23/demystifying-pleomorphic-forms-in-persistence-and-expression-of-disease-are-they-bacteria-and-is-peptidoglycan-the-sol ution/

"Berberine Inhibits the Release of Glutamate in Nerve Terminals from Rat Cerebral Cortex."

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/248385830_Berberine_Inhibits_the_Release_of_Glutamate_in_Nerve_Terminals_from_Rat_Cerebral_Cortex

No release of glutamate =

Remember...***Inhibiting any of the three different cytosolic steps in the synthesis of peptidoglycan

destroyed L-form growth"

Remember...L-forms need D-glutamate as one of the 3 components.

MitoQ, D3 with K2, Glycox and some good high quality *dark* chocolate (very high in Mg).

Bb uses Mn for most of its enzymes (we primarily use Mg). In a jam, Mn can sub for Mg.

Bb uses NaCl for motility and its ATPase is this:

Na,K-ATPase.

There is a very special protein of Bb's called

nlp H and just nearby - upstream - is a kinase (they transfer phosphates) called CK II:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8932298

Guess what can lock onto that kinase (a protein)...and be hit (oxidized) by a yellow laser?

"Inhibition of protein kinases by anthraquinone- ***derivatives"*** CK II = casein kinase II

http://www.bbz.uni-leipzig.de/dateien/abstract_2004.pdf page 156

Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged |

Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398

posted

Marnie,

Is the banana leaf extract essential? Thorne makes Berberine HCl without the banana leaf extract.

I'm very allergic to banana...

Thanks,

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011 | IP: Logged |

Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

posted

Banana leaf essential...not to my knowledge.

Berberine HCL looks to work esp. well in synergy with fluconazole for both Candida and Bb.

Resistant Candida:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24060867

They might be natural enemies...Bb's transferrin binds strongly to Fe3+ and Candida (if not kept in check) has the enzymes to go after the iron bound to transferrin.

It's a fight to the finish...who gets the iron...one needs it for replication, the other for protection.

Correction/clarification of earlier post -

The transcript for FXYD6, which codes for a protein that regulates Na,K-ATPase channels by altering their affinity for Na+ and K+ ions [61], was up-regulated only by live spirochetes.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NvB5RynOcm0J:http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%253Adoi%252F10.1371%252Fjournal.ppat.1000444

Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged |

Robin123
Moderator
Member # 9197

posted

If the bacteria uses up manganese, is it a good or bad idea for us to supplement with it? What about any of our need for it?

Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

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