posted
Hey folks, what do you think of this, I have read that cannabis oil can aid in curing lyme & can definitely can help w/pain. I really don't like taking too many pain meds. Not good for already taxed kidneys and liver ect... I have gotten some relief eating cannabis in bakery, in the past, but several times it made symptoms & pain increase by 10x? Weird , huh and why? what are your experiences and knowledge?
-------------------- Hoping for Hope Lyme, Cfids, Hormone imbalance, hypo-thyroid, immune deficiency Posts: 44 | From North Hollywood | Registered: Jan 2014
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Judie
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posted
I'd be cautious of anything be sold as a "cure" for Lyme. Until there are studies and a test to show that Lyme is completely gone, a "cure" to me is false advertising.
If it made your symptoms worse, listen to your body.
I don't think it's weird at all. Some things aren't the miracle they claim to be.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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lpkayak
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posted
I havent seen any real studies on it. Probably someone trying to make money. But the sx getting worse does suggest herx
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
hmmmm... Symptoms getting 10x worse due to herx, interesting.. I never thought of that... Ipkayak & Judie- thanks ! Its not a company that's trying to sell a cure.. I read some medical and scientific research studies about it. I came across a article about it aiding in the cure of cancer and in the cure of lyme. Was wondering if any of you had caught wind of this? Have any of you used it for pain relief? thank you !
-------------------- Hoping for Hope Lyme, Cfids, Hormone imbalance, hypo-thyroid, immune deficiency Posts: 44 | From North Hollywood | Registered: Jan 2014
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Judie
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posted
It didn't help my friend with cancer and wasn't the miracle she hoped for. She just had to grin and bare the chemo. She found ginger to be more helpful.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Marnie
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posted
Ginger is a PDE4 inhibitor...reduces inflammation - great for reducing aldehyde level in the brain too.
"Pot" = CURE? Not likely, but may put the disease process in REMISSION (as it does ALS).
nicotine canniboid receptors
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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gigimac
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posted
Marnie, can you tell me what you are wondering about nicotine patches? I googled it and i can't say I found anything.
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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gigimac
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posted
I cannot say from personal experience but i joined a cannabis for Lyme forum to check it out. There are quite a lot of people saying it has helped their symptoms, and saying they have gotten a lot of quality of life back. Some say they are in remission.
Most say it would be a lifelong treatment to keep in remission and it is not a cure. I think it sounds interesting and would like to try it but I don't have the resources.
Everytime I read a success story i wish it were legalized here. i honestly don't think it is any worse than alcohol and it has helped so many with seizure disorders and now possibly lyme.
I think it is an exciting possibility. I would totally try it if I could.
From what I have heard, You do have to go low and slow cause it will cause a herx!!
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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lpkayak
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posted
When i waz helpinh ppl with lyme years ago i noticed if there wasno way for them to get tx many would begin to drink alcohol regularly
We know that is really bad for lyme but i guess they felt better for awhile
Im guessing ppl who do pot can feel like they are getting better but they might not be
I dont know if there is something about canabis that would make them worse like alcohol does
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Judie
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posted
What comes to mind is brain fog and reaction time being effected. Also motivation to get things done.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Keebler
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posted
- Don't be too quick to think worsening of symptoms = a herx. It is more likely a message to not do that again. There are too many factors but you can sort through all the ingredients if you want to figure out possibilities.
Also, if it messes with your inner ear balance (as pot can sure do - and muscle relaxants and sedatives do that, too), that can make everything else worse, too.
Just to be very clear on one word used "cure" - no, it will not cure lyme.
It can be helpful to control seizures.
But if you pursue this, be VERY careful about the definition and source for the "oil"
Some, as used even for children with seizures . . .
very different from some "oil" extracted by BUTANE, that's right: fire starter. The process to make this is highly toxic and volatile.
I don't have time to search out the differences but I've seen news reports from Colorado about some terrible explosions from those making marijuana "oil" to sell -- it is very potent.
The kind of oil used by some children and adults to help control seizures is not the same, I am pretty sure of that . . . but don't have all the details.
Find out about extraction methods. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Backing up, you say:
" . . . have gotten some relief eating cannabis in bakery, in the past, but several times it made symptoms & pain increase by 10x?. . ."
It's very clear, then, that this is not a match for your body.
The medical marijuana oil has very little TCH (or is that THC?). It's very different.
Still, there are other things, much cheaper, to help lessen pain.
As I deal with seizures, I did wonder . . . found a good safe source on line (or looked like it just for basic inquiry to the field) . . . just in case. I'm in a medical marijuana state and my doctor would likely sign my form.
But when I saw it would be about $150. for one ounce and I'd need many of those ounces, it was just not worth further study. I can't even afford fish oil, so my study effort is done for this. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Are you gluten-free (pot bakery items probably contain gluten) . . . also, corn, dairy and soy can cause inflammation & pain for many.
Some Rx discussed here . . . and some natural approaches, too (which are the ones I'd start with):
Topic: Looking for long term pain management -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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gigimac
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posted
This is all anecdotal, but with cannabis oil most people are not reporting getting immediate symptom relief. They are reporting a period of feeling worse and then feeling better.
Sounds like a herx to me.
Like I said it is hearsay, but thought i would put it out there.
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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randibear
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posted
educate me.
isn't cannabis the same as marijuana?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Yes. If I've seen or read a report and they used the term "marijuana" I just stick with that.
The actual plant matter, whether smoked or ingested, though, is not at all the same as the oil. Different active components (some crossover with relaxation, perhaps but not with the high).
There are also many strains, and each can have very different effects. At least, regarding the plant matter. I guess oils might also be the same or maybe they use a specific strain for the medicinal oil.
As I understand it, the oil would be more nourishing to nerve cells, similar to fish oil.
Fish oil in large doses may serve well if you are looking for an oil to help with nerve / brain issues, lessen pain & anxiety, too. Recent articles suggest higher doses than are typically used.
Hemp oil, too, is good to consider. It's not the same as marijuana oil
(it still miffs me to see so many journalists interchange the two when it's just not correct to do that - they are very distant cousins with different chemical composition - it's like saying a Alaskan Husky and a Dachshund are the same animal).
Hemp food has excellent nutritive properties for body, the oil seems to benefit the nerve fibers & brain.
If you are looking for nutrient oils there are other choices, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
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posted
is cannabis oil, then, regulated as to availability? is it legal in most states? or is it jus considered an herbal supplement?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- No, it is not considered an herbal supplement. Hemp oil, is, though (again, not the same).
In states that have medical marijuana cards, one can obtain cannabis oil with a card.
In states where marijuana is legal (Colo., WA., others ?) . . . it can be bought in the special stores by anyone.
I found one on line when I was looking, again, at very high price. I'll see if I still have my notes on that. I assume it's not available to all. Certain documentation would have to be provided for those with med. marj. cards.
But at $150. an ounce . . . . it sure seems to me like someone is exploiting those who want this for medicine. It just cannot cost that much to squeeze some leaves.
You cannot get high on marijuana oil. The main purpose is for seizure management and pain control.
There is at least one family who recently moved to Colorado with their child, just so the child could legally get marijuana oil -- it's a miracle for the kid's seizure control. A success story, indeed, in that regard. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- I did not save that, I guess. Not in my file notes. But I stumbled upon a link for hash oil.
So, that triggered my memory and backing up now . . . I had mentioned the reports I'd seen on some who were extracting cannabis with Butane and it blew up . . .
that was HASH OIL. Just good to know that. Certainly don't go looking for that! A tiny, tiny amount can create some very serious reactions.
When doing a web search, so many links pop up that interchange the terms. Hash oil is not something you want, ever. Any site that mistakes the different kinds of oils from cannabis cannot be trusted. Some are telling people how to destroy themselves and the whole block. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
North Carolina Governor signs marijuana oil bill . . .
July 2014
Excerpt: . . . Universities would be encouraged to conduct hemp extract research. . . .
[But, there, again, someone does not understand that hemp is not the same thing as the kind of marijuana used for medicine.] -
[ 07-15-2014, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
OK, I always get nervous weighing in about Cannabis in online forums, but I always feel the need to do it here because I am CONVINCED that this plant has activity against Lyme.
A few years back, while treating lyme and herxing constantly (anxiety, pain, chills, sweats, fatigue, you name it I had it) A friend of mine offered me a few hits at a bbq. I was hesitant because I didn't want to make things worse with smoke. But he insisted it would make me feel good so I relented (this was no where near my first time smoking it, but I gave everything up when I found out how sick I was).
What followed was unbelievable. I felt normal. Not high. Normal. The slur left my speech. The brain fog lifted. Thoughts, beautiful, positive, creative thoughts rushed back into my head after being absent for the longest time. It may have been 20 minutes or so when I realized I was smiling! I was talking to a few friends when another friend walked over and said "Hey, look who's back from the dead! You look happy!"
I was. I was talking energetically about movies. I hadn't lived this way since I couldn't remember.
After that I tried to have some whenever I could, and it ALWAYS worked. Like I said, not high, NORMAL. Being broke, I couldn't afford to buy it, plus, it is illegal still, and I have a child. SO I lost sight of it.
After a while, the depression took hold of me bad. Anxiety and major neuro symptoms. I was suicidal. In fact, were it not for my kid I may have done the deed. At a christmas party, someone stuffed a baggy in my pocket and I took it home and smoked it for two weeks every day. Not one episode. After that I knew what I needed to do.
Smoking is not good for your immune system. Vaporizing cannabis is not only a 100% pleasant and clean way to consume it, it has some very good health benefits. Rick Simpson oil is curing cancer. Look it up.
I do not smoke MMJ any more. I may or may not use one of the aforementioned methods for medicine delivery. And it may or may not work tremendously.
Listen to me. I am not in remission. I do not know whether or not Cannabis cures Lyme. But I know it is managing my symptoms, and I am pretty sure it's helping knock back the disease. I'm positive. I stopped abx in October 2013. I'm treating with Salt-C, Parastroy, A-Bart and some supps. I have bad days, but I've not felt this good in 6 years. I put 1000 miles on my MC in the past two months. I never thought I'd ride again. I have a second job. I'm going to use that $ to get the hell outta here and move to Ca., where I can get a better handle on the MMJ, and get away from the ticks and awful people here (I know there are ticks in Ca- NOT like there are here).
I am certain that the removal of anxiety, stress and pain alone will help the immune system fight the disease on it's own. I know that is occuring. I do also believe that this plant is fighting infection as well. But I have no science to back that up, nor does anyone. Nor WILL anyone for a long time, seeing as how MMJ cannot be researched legally, and Lyme research is still being stifled for no good reason.
antiinflamatory- manages pain. In fact nothing manages pain for me except this. Advil helps, but only for a short time, and it is bad for you.
I am not a dr. and I cannot give solid medical advice, only relay my experience and that of others I've spoken to about this. I've not heard a bad story yet. Sick people are being run through the meat grinder. Between insurance, bad Pharma, and plain ignorance, it's not a great world to get sick in. This little plant can do some big things.
For people without experience, I do not recommend it until you have a person to babysit you for the first few times. I also would suggest to avoid "partying" You only need a few pulls. Neuro patients don't want to get too lit, although I am HEAVILY neuro and I can do it like a champ. But perhaps that is because I have dome it on and off since high school. I can handle it very well.
Also, smoking is bad for you no matter what kind of smoke. Look into a vaporizer or if you live in a legal area, cook with some butter or just buy some cookies. Smoking will have its benefits but it could be costly to your lungs.
I am very curious about the medical oil (Simpson oil). When I finally get outta here I would like to try it. People are saying it works for Lyme. Juicing the leaves will not get you high and is said to cure multiple ailments.
I've had it with all of this sneaking around as if MJ users are bad people that need to be kept away from the world. Quite the opposite.
Sorry for the long post. I could have gone on even longer! I really think this can help a lot of Lyme sufferers and I hope even one person finds relief because of what I said. When I think about what it has done for me I get very emotional. It really helps!
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Keebler
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posted
- Lymeboy,
thanks so much for sharing your experiences and thoughts.
I had come back to say that while trying to find that site I had been impressed with before for medical marijuana oil (although a profiteer, they had good production control) . . .
well, I can't find that. In a few months, the web has just exploded like the wild, wild west with all kind of variations.
I had said that marijuana oil is high in CBD, not THC. That's why it helps with seizures.
But, I see now that some sources are altering nature and adding in THC - and that will produce a very different effect.
Most of these new pop-ups may still require you be in a legal state. But that does not guarantee their products' safety. Not one bit. I'm not sure of any certification processes but that should be explored.
I'm at a loss of words now but if you want to obtain any for medical use, be absolutely certain of the integrity and knowledge of the source.
I'm sure in states that have medical marijuana, there are educational groups. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Thank you for sharing your experiences. I have read similar stories for users of Cannabis Oil and Cannabis Paste. I have been researching how I might get a jar, however a local law enforcement friend suggested not try it for now.
Another member and I have discussed it and if I could try it without getting in trouble I would consider it futher.
Here is what caught my attention. I read an eBook by an MD that treats Cancer and Lyme patients. In his book he says his number one protocol is Cannabis Oil. His second is Rife. Because he cannot use Cannabis Oil (CO) in his state he treats with Rife and apparently has significant success.
He does mention Rick Simpson in the eBook.
The CO does have THC and I would think one could flunk a random at work. The supply I looked at was one month, and on the Q&A part of the website the question was "Could I get high using the oil?" The answer was humorously, "If you use the whole jar!"
Of course anything interesting I have not tried is going to work so I just got to try it, right?
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Good point, about the CO containing THC, I should have said that CO (when the "correct" plant is used for the oil) is very low in THC, while the CBD is high. But it probably has enough THC to register. It's not absent, but not enough for any kind of a high.
Even in states where recreational marijuana is legal . . . and in medical marijuana states for those with MM cards, employment rules still stand and if one is tested and found with THC in sample, their job can be at risk.
I came back to add this. As pain is a topic of the first question here, too, I was looking for "what else?" -- From the plant kingdom, there are many options that have withstood time.
Looks like nicotine impacts the CB2r (cannaboid 2 receptors as an agonist - "helper" hence the proposed use of an antagonist of that receptor to help someone stop smoking).
Focus on the last sentences in the abstracts above i.e., what did the researchers find?
I would send you more privately, but your mailbox is full.
"THC treatment
during differentiation
primes human macrophages."
No abstract available -part of a program, 2014, where researchers apparently share info.
Inhibit UPTAKE = increased extracellular concentrations of adenosine? Whoa.
SAM -> SAH in the methylation cycle (Bob posted the picture for me) is the location where methyl and adenosine are removed, I think. SAH then -> homocysteine.
I wonder how long it will take them to figure out making a lot of mitochondria is good, but they need to FUNCTION and they need ubiquione to do so!
Need to look at the difference between ubiquinone and ubiquinol!!!
P.S. Several years ago, there was a DVD called, "First Do No Harm". It starred Meryl Streep and was based on a true story. She was the mother of a child who had non-stop seizures. The docs wanted to remove the boy's frontal brain lobe, but she took him from the hospital and went to Johns' Hopkins and they put him on the ketogenic diet...and CURED HIM.
This is a very risky diet...kidney wise...and has to be very carefully monitored.
Several of the "extras" in the movie were also cured via the same treatment plan, but it doesn't work for EVERYONE who has multiple seizures.
It is as good a movie as "Lorenzo's Oil".
I wonder if CBD will do (for the kid's with non-stop seizures) what the ketogenic diet could not do - CURE them, in time?
Keebler, I'm taking MitoQ to my sis!!! E-mail me directly please.
[ 07-16-2014, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
When researching info. relating to another post...
Remember our *antibody* response to Bb's OspB requires Mg and Ca and FAB-CB2 is involved:
"The bactericidal effect of Fab-CB2 is not dependent on the induction of spirochetal proteases but
is dependent on
the
presence of Ca2+ and Mg2+.
Supplementation of Ca2(+)- and Mg2(+)-free medium with these cations
restored the bactericidal effects of Fab-CB2.
The mechanism by which a Fab fragment of an antibody destroys a bacterium directly may represent a novel form of antibody-organism interaction.
Mg is anti-inflammatory, anti-histamine and inhibits HMG CoA reductase (works like statin drugs without the side effects).
CB2 is a cannaboid receptor.
Now about calcium...
Remember how the non-psycho (not THC) nutrient in "pot" i.e., Cannabidiol
has a role in ***calcium*** homeostasis and is
***an inhibitor of adenosine
uptake***...
No uptake = adenosine levels go up.
And
Overall, the present study demonstrates that SAH, Hcy (me = homocysteine) and Ado (me = adenosine) synergistically induce BV-2 ***apoptosis***, possibly by generation of ROS and induction of intracellular hypomethylation."
TC is a major cannabinoid derived from the essential oil of the flowering plant Cannabis sativa, but has a fundamentally different structure from classical cannabinoids.
Unlike agents which activate CB1 receptors, selective CB2R receptor agonists do not have psychoactive side effects.
TC appears to maintain CB2R agonist activity when administered orally and is a common ingredient found in many food additives and folk medicines.
posted
Wow,everyone!! You guys are all awesome! what a great group of caring, open, educated and interesting people 💚 I was a little nervous asking this question but I am so glad I did. very provocative discussion. thank you everyone, your support and kindness is priceless!!! all my love ,Naomi
-------------------- Hoping for Hope Lyme, Cfids, Hormone imbalance, hypo-thyroid, immune deficiency Posts: 44 | From North Hollywood | Registered: Jan 2014
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Go to the link provided at the end of this as an alternative to Cannabidiol:
***TC appears to maintain CB2R agonist activity***
when administered orally and is a common ingredient found in many food additives and folk medicines.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Okay...not going to the links? Heads up mold warriors...
TC is another component in "Pot" that also is a CB2R agonist (helper).
It is abundant in...
clove oil.
"In Australia, after major flooding throughout Queensland,
clove oil mixed with water was used as a spray to
kill mold."
Is considered a natural analgaesic and antiseptic.
In Germany it is considered a medicinal herb.
Wiki.
I'm guessing, but a little (few drops of) clove oil mixed with almond oil (massage oil) maybe a nice combo to rub on achy places.
[ 07-20-2014, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
I can't wait to try this stuff. Lymeboy, thank you so much for posting your info!
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I have thought of getting a vaporizer, as medical marijuanna is legal over the border in MA from me. But I did worry it could exacerbate my neurological symptoms...but maybe help the pain?
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
It didn't help w my pain. I am on oxy and ketamine which helps some. Good luck
Posts: 315 | From USA | Registered: May 2005
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Judie
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Member # 38323
posted
I have a friend who tried it. It was not the miracle she hoped for.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
Cannabis has been the ONLY thing to make me feel normal and not sick. I may have used it to manage my symptoms and it may have been great! As a cure? I can't say whether or not this is true but I am inclined to believe that Rick Simpson oil has activity against Lyme.
As Keebler stated, we all have different chemical makeups so it is not for everyone.
Maia, Vaporizing is a very good way to go. But a good Vaporizer is gonna be upwards of $150-175. You don't want a crappy vape. You may want to try smoking just a little before you spend the money.
There are different strains. Indicas are one type of Cannabis plant, and they are the ones that can knock you out or suck you onto the couch. Sativas are for a more awake and alert feeling and are not as good at managing pain. If you have bad pain problems, then Indicas are what will help you. If you have neuro problems you MAY want to try a Sativa dominant hybrid, OR nothing at all. If you cannot go to a dispensary, you're kinda stuck with whatever you can get, which is not a good way to treat, and it's also illegal.
I am a neuro person and both strains have been great for me, though I can't really make plans if I use an Indica. Sativas really help me with the neuro stuff. but thats just me. I only Know this firsthand because I've been to California and Wa many times and I've experimented. I'm moving west next July. Got my truck reserved and everything. I cannot wait to get away from here...
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