posted
Good morning! Went to the chiropractor for some migrating low back/glut muscle, coccyx pain and he said my sacroiliac joint was out. I have had the pain for a while so I assume the joint has been out for a while.
Today I have significant brain fog and malaise and the muscles up by entire back are sore.
Would the adjustment have anything to do with my symptoms?
Thanks!
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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I always got sore from chiros. That's why I gave them up many years ago.
That said, I found one who did acupuncture and massage... that was great. She quit her practice though.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
You might want to shift to a chiro who is experienced at using the activator method. It doesn't stir stuff up like the manual manipulation does, and it works.
I had someone inexperienced using it once and it didn't do much for me. All chiros say they have been trained how to use it, but that means nothing. Experience makes all the difference. I found someone who was specialized in it and had advanced training (makes a difference). That's all my chiro does because patients request it.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
It must have stirred things up because I feel really cruddy.
I am glad my SI joint is back in though because I am not having the same pain that I was. Need to keep going though for a week or two.
Catgirl, I have never heard of the activator method. I will have to look into that. Thank you.
Lymetoo, I was thinking of going to my acupuncturist… A message sounds wonderful right about now! Sorry your chiro left the practice.
Thank you both! Crazy stuff we deal with!
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Yes, in my experience it totally can.
Been through the gamut (right word?), with chiros in the last few years...trying to sort out the fibro pain...(lyme the entire time). Anyways I went through 12, yes 12, before I found a gem.
When I went back a few months ago for muscle work, I told him about the lyme dx, and he right away said, "No adjustments, just muscle work and stretching for you."
He is not lyme literate but understands body wide inflammation.
Even the muscle work stirred up some toxins and the 24 hours afterwards I had a mild fever.
I could imagine an adjustment, would change the muscle positions around the area, and redistribute everything.
Maybe up your detox methods?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
I go to a very good chiropractor who knows what he's doing, and whose adjustments alleviate my many Lyme symptoms and don't increase them. I get full spine plus SI area adjusting.
He uses whatever method the person can tolerate. so maybe your chiropractor can back off in force level and go more gently to see if you respond ok to corrections. That would include light activator use, as Catgirl mentioned.
Posts: 13117 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323
posted
I have not gotten relief from any chiropractors. They have made issues way worse.
I do better with an osteopathic doctor. They are much more gentle. The one I see does very gentle pressure. I can't even tell he's moving anything. I feel better later on though.
You don't want any cracking or twisting you when you have Lyme. It can stir things up.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- First, for anyone, it's normal to be sore from such an adjustment for a few days. Lyme just adds other factors.
Because the spine can be so inflamed, and the nerve fibers are beyond irritated, with some likely myelin sheath damage, "open" nerve "patches" can be compromised (so to speak - I don't know how to say this) . . .
spirochetes HATE vibration, movement, jostling, heat & even ice. So if you still have active lyme, spirochetes will take that as an offensive action and spring all over the place . . . when the are irritated, they spew forth more toxins . . .
and because when that spinal column is suddenly twisted, jerked, or however it may be moved with pressure
it's a very dangerous thing for someone with lyme or other infections of the nervous system (which the spinal chord / column holds so many nerve connections.
The fluid from inside can also leak out with even a slight force for an inflamed spine.
I wish I had saved the article where a LLMD spoke to this: Never, ever, have a sudden twist of the spine by a practitioner who is not very much lyme literate about all this . . . and who would only do
very gentle or "educated" therapeutic work.
The UPLEDGER INSTITUTE's technique is generally safe for those with lyme / TBD but because some trained in that may incorporate other techniques, always remind them not to twist 'n shout, so to speak.
UPLEDGER's CRANIAL SACRAL method is so much better, I found, than regular chiropractors do. For one, it's full body, gentle, and they don't expect you to just get adjusted in one place like a car part in 10 minutes and then just rev your engine and go. Full body really matters.
There may be other techniques, or individualized techniques by some practitioners so "vetting" is very important.
I also found this out for myself, the hard way, over and over. Sometimes, even a well meaning short adjustment - if it involved the slightest twist - could literally land me in bed for a month, for various reasons. The nerves are just too affected to go pushing and twisting.
Yet, if there are actual physical impingements, it's important they be addressed, just in a safe
Also, after any kind of body work, it's best to lie quiet on the table for at least 20 minutes. Do not just get up and go. Most practitioners would not understand this but it's really important. -
[ 09-27-2014, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Even with the best Upledger DO, so often my alignment sessions just would not hold. I also just stumbled upon why but, again, did not save that article link.
With lyme / TBD, the toxicity so irritates and spasms muscles that they just pull back. MAGNESIUM really helps but, often, those who report such find that it's not until lyme / TBD have been adequately addressed - assertively & directly - that the body will be able to "hold" onto alignment work.
FELDENKRAIS is another good method and some things can be done at home by us.
A lot also depends on our habits / ergonomics / posture at home. Feldenkrais is excellent in teaching what we likely just never learned in the first place about how to hold and carry our bodies . . .
but then with so very tired, just trying to stand up straight can be hard. Still there are ways to be mindful of body mechanics that won't stress so much. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some body work detail is further down in this set. Upledger, Feldenkrais links, etc:
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . .
BODY WORK methods / links (and why anyone who works on your spine MUST be LL to the degree they at least know to never suddenly twist neck or spine. Never. Ever. And that we should never be advised to do neck / head / shoulder stands.) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- So, for now, today . . . magnesium, lots of water, excellent nutrients and rest where you do not put a or pressure in your lower back.
You want the adjustment to hold . . . so do all you can to have proper body mechanics and not push it. The body will be adjusting for days after such a treatment. Let's hope it did the trick!
Other supports like stinging nettle, too.
You should feel better from the soreness in a couple days, and in a week or so from the "payback" - even of just going there, being there and having a "shock" to your spine, so to speak. The body can interpret this as a shock to the system. Therefore, ADRENAL SUPPORT may also be in order. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
I find that a chiro adjustment often releases the toxins that were locked in the joint and I feel miserable for a while.
As I get better I had to go to the chiro less and less often.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8904 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Vitamin C taken just prior to the adjustment can help offset the toxin release & inflammation from the adjustment.
Even taking Vitamin C after the adjustment can help, though...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Back from my chiropractor - I ran your question by him. He said 5% of patients feel worse after an initial adjustment. He suggested staying the course for a couple weeks, and if it's not working, then go elsewhere.
He says - and I figured as much - that he uses the level of force a person can tolerate. So start gentle and work up. Massagers, arthrostim, light activator, light force, etc initially.
I get medium force adjustments and find that I need that much just to get the bones to move.
Btw, reading through what Keebler wrote here, I didn't know what ailed me for 25 years, and started early on with chiropractic care, probably because tight muscles were pulling on the bones.
I survived it. What I found is that I needed the right level of force - light adjusting did nothing, forceful adjusting was too much and set me off, and medium done accurately was fine.
Just like that story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears - gotta find the right level for you, done by someone who's a good chiropractor and knows what they're doing.
Posts: 13117 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Such great information here. Robin, thank you for asking your chiro about this. The level of force has concerned me at times. For this though, I think I needed full force maneuver. Will keep this in mind going forward though because I am pretty small.
Razzle: vitamin C, great to know. I am going to do this before I go next time.
Hiker: I think toxins somewhere where dislodged because I feel so much better now than this morning. Soreness is mostly gone, brain fog too.
Keebler: So interesting about adjustments not holding. I was good for a long time in this area but lately every little twist results in my spine cracking/adjusting a lot.
So things are looser for sure. Today I have been aware of sitting etc.. with good posture to hold things. It feels so much better having the joint back in place. The twisting force that induced an audible pop had to be done I think. But yes, gently is nice.
Cranial sacral therapy is awesome. I did that for a while at one point. My husband just handed me some magnesium….
Greta: sounds like your chiro is a keeper. I am glad you have him!
Thank you all again. For now all body parts seem to be in the correct positions and I am feeling better which is a good sign that its all heeded in the right direction.
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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