posted
Everyone is aware of candida, but there is another, fairly common yeast called Malassezia which is rarely mentioned but important to know about.
Key point: Malassezia feeds on LIPIDS (oleic acid fats), not the sugars and starches that most other yeasts prefer. The usual candida diet does *not* factor this aspect of Malassezia into the equation!
Malassezia can infect hair follicles (where it may feed on sebum) and melanocytes (it seeks out melanin which it incorporates into its cell wall). Like other yeasts, it can overgrow when conditions favor it. It is associated with conditions ranging from dandruff to hypopigmentation spots on the skin & vilitigo, sebhorreic dermatitis, oily skin, as well as itching (can be extreme), and burning (probably from acids it secretes, or acids the immune system releases in an attempt to thwart the yeast).
Malassezia can also get into the ears and eyes, where melanin is also present. If it progresses, symptoms such as hearing difficulties/ear fullness/ear pain or blurry vision may be possible. Melanin is involved in the mechanisms of hearing in some way.
It can also be systemic, although this is rarely recognized ... leading to symptoms like muscle/joint pain, tingling of nerves, and more.
Another key point: Malassezia is almost totally unrecognized by doctors (incl. most LLMDs) even though it is a common yeast and an opportunistic pathogen. The usual fungal cultures do NOT grow Malassezia even it's present, because the culture media they use contains only sugars & starches, no lipids. And Malassezia requires lipids to grow. Also, it grows VERY slowly so a short culturing period may be insufficient.
Some possible diagnostic clues to discuss with your doctor: - symptoms tend to get worse at night, as w/ most yeast (I speculate that this is possibly due to not eating during sleep, and lack of sunlight which when present stimulates melanin production which MAY be involved in energy productn for Malassezia ... hence it gets aggravated.) - symptoms tend to fluctuate rather than be constant (similar to Lyme) - symptoms tend to WORSEN a few hrs after taking antibiotics, e.g. episodes of blurry vision may occur etc. Worsening is usually noticeable but subtle, not dramatic or acute. Consider keeping a record of the timing of any symptoms relative to when you take meds, when you've eaten, and time of day. - since Malassezia feeds on lipids, I suspect it releases acids/substances that trigger the body to produce more lipids in response; hence skin may become more oily, and internally, cortisol may increase, leading to higher cholesterol & triglycerides; these extra lipids feed its growth. [note: some published studies suggest it is oily skin that causes the Malassezia, but I think it is the other way around]
Some potential dietary considerations to discuss w/ your physician: - vegetable oils including olive oil, and animal fats feed Malassezia; grapeseed oil has a lower amt of oleic acid so this may be the better one to use if using an oil; - increasing sulfur-containing foods (if you tolerate them ok) may be helpful; from what I have read, sulfur may have antifungal properties; [garlic, onions, broccoli/brassica veggies, asparagus, curcumin] - hoarseradish: high in sulfur, high in glucosinolates - ginger: contains caprylic acid (antifungal) - dark leafy greens (esp. swiss chard, beet greens); artichoke; edamame - daikon radish - red/purple/green pigmented veggies - seafood - blueberries; SKINS of tart apples - herbs/spices which are healthful in general, esp: many Indian spices (they use these to deter microbial growth in a hot/humid climate) turmeric/curcumin, cumin, allspice, whole black pepper, cinnamon, wasabi, chili peppers, oregano, thyme, rosemary, parsley, et al. Fresh or whole seeds is best. - tea made from bark, e.g. Paul D'Arco and Twig Tea; also peppermint leaf tea - possibly decaf coffee (source of polyphenols which inhibit tyrosinase, a rate-limiting enzyme controlling the production of melanin; melanin affects Malassezia's growth and ability to evade the immune system); can boil a cinnamon stick in the water first - possibly non-alcoholic dry red wine (also a source of polyphenols as w/ coffee ... but sugar content and residual alcohol may be a concern) - foods naturally high in probiotics e.g. sauerkraut, kimchi, sourdough - when taking abx, with each pill, eat some red onion or daikon radish, and some dark leafy greens
Some potential supplement considerations to discuss w/ your physician: - Vit B's, Vit D, and iron may all feed Malassezia - Liquid chlorophyll may be worth considering. (usually taken as 1 tsp in a glass of water daily ... but discuss w/ your doc)
A potential medication consideration to discuss w/ your physician: - Medications that increase lipids (incl. certain psych drugs) may increase the risk of Malassezia overgrowth.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Haley
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posted
sonatina - You may have just solved a puzzle piece for me. I have severe scalp issues and skin issues. I have used some antifungals which seem to help, but would love to identify what this is on my scalp/face. This has been going on for several years.
Do you know what medicine is used for this?
[ 12-11-2014, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Haley ]
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posted
Haley, I think Malassezia is a significant, missing piece of the puzzle for many people. Knowing what I now know about it, I can't believe it is so overlooked and barely gets a mention! It is very slow-growing and less virulent than Candida, but it is nevertheless important.
Based on my reading, the usual medications are ketoconazole-based (either topical or oral). Diflucan does not seem to be used; perhaps it is not considered effective against Malassezia. Sometimes itraconazole is used. Other topical meds used include coal tar shampoos (coal tar contains sulfur), or shampoos that combine salicylic acid & sulfur in some form. Hydrogen peroxide (diluted and not over used) also works for short-term relief. Anyone with Malassezia infection of the scalp may notice some relief after getting their hair dyed at a salon ... all that hydrogen peroxide sets the Malassezia back. Pouring onion juice on the scalp can also give some temporary relief (due to sulfur content in onions).
However it is not just ON the scalp, but within/underneath the surface. So topicals can help a lot with symptom relief, but they don't get at all of it.
Take a look at some vet med sites about this too. Vets seem to be the only medical professionals that know about Malassezia -- it is considered extremely common in dogs, for example. They seem to have a lot more shampoo choices etc. for dogs than exist for humans!
Once it is under control, occasional maintenance treatments long-term may be needed.
Other tips to consider: - avoid shampoos or other products that contain sodium lauryl sulfate (stimulates fungus) - avoid putting oil or fat-based lotions on skin (some people say coconut oil is ok; others say even that is not good... so that MAY be the one exception, I don't know.) - avoid anti-bac (including many acne products) on scalp; they wipe out the competing bacteria on the scalp, leaving greater opportunity for Malassezia to grow. - I've read that sea water exposure is helpful too, possibly b/c of the combination of sea salt and tons of different kinds of bacteria. So if you live somewhere near the ocean, going for frequent swims may be an option (being careful of sun exposure though). Part of the solution with Malassezia may be finding ways to increase the competing "good" flora in your scalp. - a somewhat off-the-wall idea: lift weights, on the theory that lactic acid build-up in the muscles -- same acid made by lactobacillus bacteria -- might help deter yeast? ... all these organisms respond to chemical signals, it seems.
Internally, aside from medications, one can consider some of the dietary changes I mentioned in my earlier post.
One other thought I have had is that while we are usually told to avoid all yeast on the candida diet, it may actually make some sense to eat a modest amount of something like sourdough bread (only from a good bakery that makes it without additives - you can freeze it). Sourdough contains both baker's yeast and lactic acid bacteria, so it is in that sense probiotic. The baker's yeast is a non-pathogenic type of yeast, and a *little* could give some competition to the more pathogenic yeasts, just like lactobacillus does for more pathogenic bacteria. --discuss w/ your doc.
If you have white, hypopigmented spots on the skin, these can be from Malassezia. IMO anyone with Malassezia overgrowth in the skin should be extra careful about sun exposure. It seems possible to me that the combination could raise the risk of skin cancer.
Note: Malassezia may not be the only possible cause of hypopigmentation, so discuss w/ your doc for a diagnosis specific to your situation if you have this symptom.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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posted
Some add'l things to mull over related to choice of Lyme antibiotics in patients with Malassezia overgrowth:
Considerations to discuss w/ your doc:
- IV antibiotics seem like the riskiest choice, b/c of the catheter itself first and foremost. Since Malassezia can be present within the skin, it seems possible it could creep in via catheter opening. Symptoms might not be apparent if this happens since the organism is so slow growing, and hospital blood cultures won't show Malassezia since they don't use lipids in the culture medium. Of course the choice of IV has to be based on both benefits and risks, so this is only one factor of many. I'm not suggesting that IV should be ruled out necessarily.
IV abx penetrate the blood brain barrier. From the standpoint of treating CNS Lyme, this is helpful; from the standpoint of avoiding fungal issues in the brain, this is a risk factor.
- In general, narrower spectrum antibiotics have less effect on flora than broader spectrum. Bicillin is one of the narrowest spectrum abx used for Lyme.
- Lipophilic drugs like minocycline *may* possibly be higher risk for those with Malassezia.
- Doxy might be one of the safer choices. It was originally discovered from a bacteria rather than from a yeast or mold like many other abx. Also it has an interesting property which is that it binds melanin (this may be why it causes photosensitivity). It also binds iron & other minerals that are nutrient sources for yeast. So -- I'm speculating here -- it might actually inhibit Malassezia growth by limiting its access to Melanin. (GREAT care would have to be taken though to protect against UV radiation while on this).
- Spinal taps may be an extra concern ... in theory at least, since Malassezia can infect the skin, a tap runs some risk of pushing it into the CSF. Whether this is likely or not, I can't say.
- All medical tests involving radiation exposure increase risk over time of Malassezia growth. So discuss w/ your doc which are truly necessary and any options for limiting exposure. CT scans in particular involve a considerable amt of radiation (based on what I've read, something like the equivalent of 150 x-rays, but don't quote me on that).
If you need to have a CT scan or other similar test, discuss with your doc whether you could go off abx shortly before the test so that you don't have abx in your system during the test itself. That may help a bit with limiting the yeast-stimulating effect of the radiation. (just my thinking here, again)
- Flagyl tends to promote quite a bit of yeast overgrowth (it wipes out anaerobic flora) ... so if considering, weigh the risks/benefits w/ your doc. Flagyl also has broad penetration in the body, which can be helpful for Lyme but a risk factor for fungi. IV Flagyl may be very high risk ... not only for possible yeast issues but it has other adverse effects as well, e.g. neurotoxicity. Be careful.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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posted
Another possible, overlooked aspect of Malassezia is its potential role in triggering allergic reactions to antibiotics. IMO patients who develop broad allergic reactions to most/all antibiotics, and/or reactions to sun exposure, should be assessed for possible Malassezia overgrowth.
Abx or UV radiation both stimulate growth of Malassezia... which in turn causes the immune system to respond, hence what appears to be an "allergic reaction" when it may actually be an appropriate defense by the body against the spread of this yeast.
If you find you develop allergic reactions to abx which are NOT drug-specific, a possible hidden cause to consider may be Malassezia overgrowth.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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TNT
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Are there any kinds of tests for this?
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NO routine tests that I've been able to discover ... which seems incredibly weird.
Docs seem to know even less about Malassezia than they do about Lyme. A scary thought!
Dermatologists can do scrapings of skin/scalp and send that to be tested. That might help diagnose it for superficial Malassezia infection at least.
Vets do seem to test dogs etc. for it commonly. I think that's mostly skin scraping tests, where they look at the slide under the microscope.
It's possible for a hospital lab to do a special blood culture test if the physician requests it, to look for lipophilic fungi, but that's not a routine test they perform and not all labs may do it.
I haven't done a search for any DNA type testing but maybe there's something out there.
I think Malassezia was thought of as common and benign, causing mild dermatologic problems only ... so it's been ignored. Additionally because it requires a special culture medium and is very slow growing, there's an economic reason to avoid routine testing for it.
It is now known, however, that it CAN become an opportunistic pathogen, and cases of fungemia have been documented. Mostly it seems to be cancer docs that publish about that, b/c they see so many cases of fungal infections in their patients.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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LisaK
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posted
so, ..... there is no "cure" , just ways to keep it under control?
maybe this is why all the drs suspect candida with me, but it is always neg????? is there a good site to check sx? I have some strange sx that no one seems to know what's causing them.
thanks for this info! I find it so interesting and hoping it will help me find answers!
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Haley
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posted
I believe ketonazole will treat this. I have tried the topical cream and Nizoral shampoo seems to help a bit. I am trying to get the oral ketonazole to see if this will address the scalp/skin issue. I am having surgery on my face (for cancer) and I want to address this infection first.
This symptom does respond to different medications, anti-parasitics, anti-malarials and certain things like Rifampin. It's possible that it is parasitic also.
If this symptom goes away, I'm sending you a reward Sonatina.
The symptom itself is not too bad, but I have always told my doc when this symptom goes away all of my other stuff will be gone (cognitive etc.). This is actually the symptom that finally got me a Lyme diagnosis after 2 years of going from doctor to doctor.
I told the doc that I felt something crawling on my head, she said "that reminds me of Lyme" by that point I was on my death bed. I realized right away that was the correct diagnosis, as I had a huge bulleseye 2 years earlier, but thought it was a spider bite.
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From what I've read, it's treatable, but recurrence can sometimes happen. I think you can at a minimum get it under control; with some luck, maybe it won't cause any further problems. Diet changes may help avoid a recurrence (see my post for tips on that, esp. important is to avoid all vegetable oils including olive oil). Also you can be choosey about what medications you take, with an eye towards avoiding stimulation of this yeast.
Ketoconazole is harder on the liver than diflucan, so if you take it be sure your doc is monitoring your bloodwork regularly, and be on the lookout for any signs of liver stress. Also ask your doctor about limiting any non-essential other meds/supps to reduce the load on the liver. Sulfur containing veggies like broccoli & onions, as well as dark leafy greens help the liver.
Candida tests are specific for c. albicans and will not indicate the presence of Malassezia (or any other fungi). So it seems to be off the radar.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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I believe Malassezia can raise one's risk of skin cancer over time if you also have UV exposure. Treating the Malassezia could theoretically be a good way to help avoid future issues. Also limiting not only sun exposure but also exposure from medical tests -- when you can, I know there isn't always a choice about that. CT scans in particular exposure a person to a large amt of radiation.
I think it's possible that doxycycline, which interestingly happens to be an antibiotic that originally comes from a Strep bacterium, NOT from a yeast as many other abx do, may help. The reason is that doxy binds to both melanin (which is why is causes sun sensitivity) and iron, two things that further the growth of this yeast.
A good possible treatment -- esp for a lyme pt -- might actually be a combination of ketoconazole or itraconazole plus doxycycline. You'd have to ask doc whether they can be taken together. STAY OUT OF SUN IF YOU DO THIS! Also you'd need to consider any other infections you may have that would not be susceptible to this combo. --something to figure out w/ your doc before embarking on any treatments.
It's interesting that you noticed improvement from anti-parasitics and anti-malarials, as well as Rifampin. Quite possible It could be they have mechanisms of action that are inhibitory against this yeast.
If you can post which drugs helped you, I'll do some research on them & see if I can come up with ideas why they may have worked. That is key so that other patients who think they have Malassezia can factor that in to treatment options.
Re. the feeling that something is crawling on the head... I believe that could well be from Malassezia. Not to say you don't have Lyme too, but that particular symptom I think is likely the yeast.
Lyme seems to be linked to an increase of fungal infections, even before a person starts abx treatment. I don't know why that is exactly, but I do believe it's the case. My working theory at the moment is that Lyme may kill off some of the normal bacterial flora, either directly or by getting our immune systems to do it. But I'm not sure about this.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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LisaK
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posted
I was told a decade ago that I had no beneficial flora in my system (via stool sample) by a certain dr practice that is highly regarded.
they put me on caprylic acid and chlorophyll and chia seeds and all kinds of other stuff. I didn't know I had lyme at the time.
it sounds like they were on the right track with some of this and I probably should have kept up with that dr and the protocol they gave me.
I have my old files. I will look up and see what it says.
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surprise
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posted
Lyme suppresses the immune system, allowing other infections (fungal) to flourish, if it's there, and fed.
The biomedical Dr.s treating autism 1st address diet. Then nearly all these kids have a systemic fungal infection. If diflucan doesn't kill it,
or testing comes back 'unknown fungi' without a list of herbs and medications to combat, ketoconazole or Spornax is prescribed.
So many of us (PANDAS/PANS) find congenital lyme the root.
Haley- sending you good thoughts-----
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
Interesting. Also possible that Lyme may give fungi entrance into places they are normally blocked from. Lyme can get through the blood brain barrier, so if present, maybe yeast can piggy-back on that and get in too.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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posted
Some people have asked about a symptoms list. I don't know of any official one anywhere, but here are the symptoms I know of/believe it causes. Feel free to comment; I will tweak this if I learn more info.
Please keep in mind I am not a doctor and cannot guarantee the accuracy of this list, so it should not be used for clinical purposes other than perhaps a discussion with your physician. Some symptoms may be non-specific and potentially from other causes.
Tentative Malassezia Symptom List (DRAFT) ------------------------------------------ General: - usually no or low fever; can be assoc. with chills in more advanced infections; - can cause significant malaise/fatigue with overgrowth - symptoms can be assoc. with OR without inflammation (possibly Malassezia can produce or inhibit prostaglandins, as can some other yeasts ... hence there may be no inflammation - ?) - symptoms tend to worsen at night (no sunlight) - symptoms come & go; will tend to worsen with antibiotics (other than tetracyclines possibly?) - symptoms can range from asymptomatic to fungemia w/ vascular involvement & fatality - some symptoms may occur when the yeast releases acids (which I speculate that it does to provoke the body into producing more lipids, its food source), or may be from the immune system’s response to the yeast, which can appear as if “allergic” - increased cortisol and all the usual secondary effects that can cause, including fat deposits, weight gain, edema, high blood pressure, increased blood sugar, increased sweating, etc.
Risk Factors: - Steroids/immunosuppressants - Medications/treatments which raise lipids (includes PRN lipids, certain psych drugs, et al) - UV radiation exposure (cumulative), including sun, medical treatments such as CT scans, etc. - Use of hormones, including birth control pills - Diet high in oleic acid fats (vegetable oils, animal fats) - Low, less diverse healthy flora
Skin/Scalp: - Oily skin/scalp - Itching (can be intense) - Burning (tends to be in patches rather than all over simultaneously) - Crawling sensation - White spots on skin w/ no pigmentation - Brown spots on skin (accumulation of melanin) - Dandruff - Eczema - Psoriasis - Sebhorreic Dermatitis - Tinea Versicolor (aka Pityriasis Versicolor) - Atopic Dermatitis - Folliculitis (can be yeast OR bacterial) - Hair loss
- Risk of skin cancer (not documented but good reasons to be suspicious); one study author noted that basal cell carcinoma occurs almost exclusively in animal species colonized by Malassezia)
Eyes/Ears: - Blurry vision which comes & goes - Speculative: loss/change of eye pigment - Ear pain - Feeling of fullness in ears - Hearing loss; may fluctuate & will tend to worsen after taking abx
Misc. Other / Systemic A vast array of other symptoms may occur depending on the location of the yeast in the body, potentially including: - Bone or tooth decay (perhaps a source of calcium for the yeast) - Muscle/joint pain - Lower back pain - Vascular involvement - Cold feet - Nerve tingling/quivering - Brain/CNS: pressure in head, burning sensation, depression (due to effects on neurons that produce dopamine and other mood-related neurotransmitters), slow processing, spaced out/foggy feeling - Speculative: possibly may cause Parkinson’s in some people (see other post for details); Parkinson's is associated with the specific area of the brain that contains neuromelanin ... and Malassezia is a melanin-seeking yeast.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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Haley
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posted
Thanks for the tips sonatina, I'll check those out.
I definitely also have Lyme. Had a Bullseye that covered my entire lower leg, I also have all the positive blood tests. Lyme, Bartonella, RMSF, Ehrlichia and Babesia.
This illness is like a Rubik's cube. I'm so grateful that we have these forums to help figure stuff out.
I have come a long way, I've been in a mild hyperbaric chamber for over 3 months which is giving me my life back. Just a few more puzzle pieces to go.
Thanks for all of the research your doing.
[ 12-11-2014, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Haley ]
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NP. Lyme and yeast infections seem to go hand-in-hand.
Which anti-malarials / parasitics helped you? I'm curious about the mechanisms of those drugs. Hope to do some reading about that soon.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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TNT
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Sonatina: NP. Lyme and yeast infections seem to go hand-in-hand.
Sonatina, does the NP. stand for neuro-psychiatric?
I really appreciate what you have been sharing, and that you brought this subject up. I am very interested in hearing and learning more.
Also, you must have an interesting story behind all this, and I would enjoy hearing about it. Many times the diversity and similarities of other's journeys provides insights into our own cases.
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Although it could be an unintentional pun, given that both Lyme and yeast can manifest with neuropsychiatric issues!
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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TNT
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duh!!
I hope you will be willing to share your story. Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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surprise
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posted
Yes, we are leery of newer people who come here suddenly and post post post
they have an answer, they post responses to many threads with their new answer,
but we aren't familiar with them or their lyme story.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
I asked for the story days ago. Never got it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TNT
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posted
I'm not trying to scare anyone off. So keep the discussion alive, even if not comfortable with sharing personal details.
I would imagine someone could find this site without necessarily having lyme disease, or harmful intent. But we do operate more like a family here.
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LisaK
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posted
I..... oops! nevermind
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
The web isn't private and therefore I prefer not to post personal details. I realize most people are comfortable with posting on the web; I'm just not in general.
I hope people can respect that. It's just the way I feel. It's not intended to be unfriendly and I certainly hope it's not taken that way.
I haven't posted anything anywhere for quite a long time ... but recently decided I should share some of what I've learned from all the research I've done, in the hopes that it might be helpful to others.
I have mostly posted about Malassezia because it is so largely ignored & unknown, and I believe it can be an important piece of the puzzle for some.
I didn't know about it myself for a VERY long time, and only came across some information about it by chance. So I thought if I posted about it, anyone who may be having an issue with that as part of their picture might find some answers they might otherwise never find (since most doctors don't seem to know about Malassezia either and no routine testing is done).
I do also know quite a lot about Lyme, but so do many others here so there isn't always anything new I can add to the discussion.
-------------------- Please consult your physician before making any changes to your diet, medications, or supplements. I am not a healthcare professional and nothing I write should be construed as medical advice. Posts: 166 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2014
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TNT
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Sonatina,
How likely do you think it is that a person would have this as a systemic infection without the presence of one of the above-mentioned skin conditions???
I'm not a big fan of wikipedia, but since I have had some trouble with seborrhoeic dermatitis, I thought I would post this link.
posted
That's a good question, but not one I know the answer to. I don't think it has been studied.
My best guess is that for the majority of the population, skin/scalp symptoms are the primary and maybe the only symptoms that commonly develop. So systemic infection without previous skin/scalp symptoms would presumably be rare, although not necessarily impossible.
However, some people/groups have special risk factors that may change that picture, including Lyme patients, cancer patients, organ transplant patients, people on immunosuppressant drugs, people given IV lipids or taking hormones, etc.
For Lyme patients, the biggest, most obvious risk is likely the use of IV antibiotics, because the combination of a catheter (which creates an opportunity for any organism present on the skin to gain access) and multiple antibiotics that penetrate the entire body including the CNS create conditions that could lead to systemic infection without necessarily having prior skin/scalp overgrowth.
If the organism does penetrate the body's interior, the subsequent prolonged use of combination oral or other antibiotic therapies over years could slowly grow the Malassezia infection, until eventually there are noticeable symptoms internally... which might sometimes be confused with Lyme symptoms.
Also, because Lyme pts are often shut out from the usual channels of medical care, some do IV antibiotics largely on their own, changing their dressings and also mixing medicines themselves, without having the benefit of a sterile hood to do the mixing or formal training in sterile techniques. All of this adds to the potential for issues, not only from Malassezia but from other potential opportunistic pathogens.
A second risk is from IM antibiotics. If over time, Malassezia starts to overgrow on the skin from prolonged abx of any kind, including orals, there would presumably then be a higher chance that any injections that go through the skin could push the organism deeper into the body. This could in theory happen from medical testing too, e.g. blood draws or spinal taps.
Anti-fungals can also promote the growth of Malassezia, ironically, if a drug is used to which is it not susceptible. Its yeast competitors may be wiped out by the antifungal, creating greater opportunity for Malassezia to advance.
And finally, Lyme patients also take a lot of other supplements and meds, a few of which can potentially stimulate growth too, e.g. certain psych meds.
All of this is speculation on my part, though, so take it with a grain of salt. It does seem to me, though, that Lyme patients could have risk scenarios for systemic infection that most other people do not.
One comment on the Wikipedia link you posted: it has a reference to a study showing that UV light inhibited Malassezia growth. I question the accuracy of those findings b/c that study was done in vitro, where the yeast did not have the same protections -- most importantly melanin -- that it has when it's in the skin. Other data points to a different conclusion, namely that UV radiation may stimulate growth.
In general, non-lethal radiation favors the growth of melanized fungi because they tend to be much better able to survive it than most bacteria can (and also better than non-melanized fungi).
(Editing to add:) One other thing: I think one also has to be careful when reading/interpreting sites that seem to equate symptom improvement with inhibition of yeast growth, such as sites that report improvement during the summer from sun exposure.
This organism seems to secrete acids as a means of provoking the body into secreting more lipids, its preferred food source. When it is getting what it needs, it may be perhaps be LESS symptomatic b/c it temporarily stops irritating the skin/body, even though it may still be reproducing quietly/slowly or it's just dormant for a while. That's my current take on it anyway.
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TNT
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I like you take things with a grain of salt because many things are not as they seem, and are NOT as we have been taught or told.
But, do you have any info or link that you could cite that would suggest it likes UV light? In other words, what gives/gave you the impression or caused you to think that UV light may help its growth ("That's my current take on it anyway.")??
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I don't whether it "likes" UV radiation per se. UV radiation can be lethal to microbes (that's why it is often used to sterilize medical equipment).
But it's a complex question because there are yeast that can draw energy from the sun, possibly using melanin in some way that is analogous to plants drawing energy from the some via chlorophyll & photosynthesis. Some researchers have raised a question about whether Malasseszia might utilize melanin for this purpose, but the question hasn't been answered. I don't think anyone has studied it enough to know, but people have put it out there as a possibility.
I think the more certain point is that UV radiation gives Malassezia and other other melanized fungi an ADVANTAGE over many other organisms, because it/they are better able to survive it than most other microbes. So if there are xx number of organisms on the skin, and you get a lot of sun over time or exposure to UV from other sources, Malassezia might gain an opportunistic advantage which allows it to edge out other microbes that normally inhibit its ability to grow. --hence it advances. I read that growth of melanized fungi can occur even in the absence of nutrients.
Also possible that yeast ON the skin are less able to survive radiation, while those WITHIN the skin or inside the melanocytes do survive it.
Check out the following article on Pubmed for an interesting read about fungi & radiation. Some are considered "radiotropic" and there's even one type that has been found able to survive in highly contaminated waters near a nuclear reactor.
"We concluded that melanin protected fungi against ionizing radiation..."
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Also: I read that neuromelanin has an affinity for iron, something most organisms utilize to reproduce. This raises the question of whether Malassezia might use melanin for multiple purposes, with the possibilities including:
- protection from UV radiation - protection from eradication by the immune system - one of its means of generating energy - gaining access to iron - maybe also obtaining Vitamin D; melanin affects the production of VitD, so this could be one of the reasons yeast infection can be associated with low Vit D levels in humans; also the body could theoretically downshift synthesis/release of VitD into the blood as a means of trying to limit the growth of yeast). Yeast use VitD to build their cell membranes, which is one reason to be careful with taking large doses in supplement form.
... and probably others I haven't thought of yet.
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Sorry, another wiki article. I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the interaction of malassezia and melanin.
TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Sonatina: If you can post which drugs helped you, I'll do some research on them & see if I can come up with ideas why they may have worked. That is key so that other patients who think they have Malassezia can factor that in to treatment options.
Rifampin has definitely been a drug that has helped me; Doxy, too.
I'd be interested in what you can find out, Sonatina
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I don't know all the answers to this, but here's what I have been able to come up with so far (I did some research on this yesterday). I think your observations are 100% correct that those specific antibiotics DO have an effect.
DOXYCYLINE ---------- In addition to its more commonly known mechanism of action, doxycycline has some other properties found only in the tetracycline class of antibiotics as far as I know.
That is, it binds to: melanin, calcium, and metal ions (including iron, aluminum, etc). This might be the reason Doxy could affect Malassezia. If it deprives it of melanin, calcium, and iron (et al), this might inhibit its growth AND possibly make it more susceptible to elimination by the immune system.
Doxy originally came from a bacterium, not a yeast like many other antibiotics ... so who knows, maybe that bacterium developed this chemical not only to thwart certain other bacteria but also to thwart fungi. Seems possible anyway. The things it binds to may be an intentional strategy this bacteria used to combat certain yeasts, and not just a fluke.
If this theory is correct, a possible strategy for treatment for people with both Lyme and Malassezia might be doxy + antifungal. (Plus a mighty effort to increase good flora, because over the long-term, they are needed to keep the bad guys in check.)
RIFAMPIN -------- This one is harder to figure out and I'm not sure I totally understand it ... but I think I'm at least on the trail.
I suspect it has something to do with Rifampin's effect on neurotransmitters, and possibly specifically dopamine (which happens to be what gets produced in the part of the brain that contains neuromelanin). Many antibiotics have effects on neurotransmitters that aren't always widely recognized (Biaxin is another one).
Anyway, I read that morphine and Rifampin can't be taken together, and that's what gave me the idea. Morphine is kinda similar to dopamine & maybe some other neurotransmitters.
And it turns out -- something I didn't know before -- that various immune cells have receptors on them for neurotransmitters, including dendritic cells (which are involved in activating T cell responses etc).
So maybe Rifampin increases dopamine in a way that beefs up the immune response, and the body is then able to more effectively kill Malassezia?
That's as far as I've gotten with this anyway.
It does seems possible that a sneaky microorganism could try to disable the threat from the immune response by manipulating neurotransmitters in the brain. Which ones can do that, I don't know.
Will let you know if I figure out anything more.
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Another thing that might help is eating hoarseradish. Has a high sulfur content (antifungal) and also something in it that may slow down the production of melanin. Also cuts fats, which is why in some cultures they eat it with meats.
Best used freshly grated. Sometimes you can find fermented veggies that include hoarseradish in them.
Not the best tasting though... but good for you.
Kimchi is a Korean fermented vegetable dish that's high in probiotics. (and pretty tasty)
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(1) Yeast which seek or produce melanin may use it to access & convert iron to a form they can use. Hence the more melanin they can get, the more iron they can get, and the more they can reproduce. This is in addition to using melanin for other purposes such as surviving UV radiation.
(2) I read that Sacchromyces yeast -- which has numerous strains including those used for bread-making and beer brewing, as well as S. boulardii which some people take as a supplement -- can produce a compound that degrades melanin.
If true, Sacchromyces yeast may help check infections with melanin-seeking types of yeast. Lactic acid also apparently inhibits melanin production (by inhibiting tyrosinase, an ezyme that controls the production of melanin) ... which would suggest that greater presence of lactic acid bacteria might also be an important check.
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Found one source that says Rifampin inhibits Vit D ... maybe also K. So this is another possible mechanism of action b/c Vit D is a nutrient for Malassezia.
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TNT
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The immunology of malassezia infections.
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Sonatina,
So, if malassezia uses melanin, would that have any effect on how a person tans (I'm thinking more in a systemic infection)? Or would it just make them have splotchy areas on their skin?
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TNT
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I deleted my post about it possibly inhibiting cancer. Here is where I got that impression. It has to do with azelaic acid, a metabolite of malassezia.
(The quote I'm citing below came from the Clinical Microbiology Review article I just gave the link to).
"Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric analysis of the gas from the culture headspace of Malassezia grown in lipid containing medium showed it to consist of volatile gamma lactones. This characteristic was unique to Malassezia and was suggested as a possible way to differentiate this genus from others (240). Another metabolite produced is azelaic acid, a C9 dicarboxylic acid. It is produced when Malassezia is grown in the presence of oleic acid and is a competitive inhibitor of tyrosinase, an enzyme involved in the production of melanin (302). In addition to having antibacterial (190, 242) and antifungal (65) activity, azelaic acid inhibits the proliferation of several tumor cell lines (331) and decreases the production of reactive oxygen species in neutrophils by inhibiting cell metabolism (9)."
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TNT
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Some of the species of malassezia cross-react with some of the lyme-specific bands on the western blot.
posted
TNT, Some interesting articles! Thanks for your posts.
Yes, if Malassezia overgrows to the point where it affects a person's normal melanin production / distribution in the skin, this could certainly affect how someone tans. It is known that Malassezia can cause areas of white, hypopigmented skin that does not tan.
Re. inhibiting cancer, these issues are complex and lab-based research is a different environment than a human body. It's possible for example that Malassezia could increase the risks of certain cancers and decrease the risks of others.
By diminishing the melanin in the skin, a person would have less protection from the sun -- hence increased risk of skin cancer, I would think.
More research would be needed to say for sure. The potential link to skin cancer seems concerning to me, esp. given that Malassezia can infect the melanocytes in the skin.
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D Bergy
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Don't know for certain if I have an unusual amount of this, but I do have dry scalp and skin. Also flaky areas on some of the oily spots on my face.
I am testing the frequencies listed for this with my Rife machine. I will post if I get any results.
Dan
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I have seborrheic dermatitis. What I have been using for the skin symptoms is a mixture of green tea and apple cider vinegar. I use this like a toner. It reduce the flaking. I don't know anything about internal Malassezia, just external manifestations on the skin. My dermatologist says the apple cider vinegar changes the skin's pH and the Malassezia don't like that.
This is an interesting thread. I was totally unaware of internal Malassezia. I do take doxycycline and I'm going to be starting rifampin. I also take nystatin and a lot of probiotics. I hope that will help. I'm going to have to re-read this thread when I have less brain fog.
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DeathtoSpirochetes, I doubt the Nystatin or the probiotics will help with scalp Malassezia overgrowth.
Malassezia isn't usually sensitive to Nystatin, so it may not do anything or may even make it worse. Probiotics normally contain lactic acid bacteria which are mostly anaerobic and are not normally able to live on the scalp.
But you may be taking both of those for other reasons.
S.
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TNT
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Was just reading through this article again (http://cmr.asm.org/content/15/1/21.full#sec-5) and noticed at another place it mentions anti-tumor modulations.
It definitely does both- it upregulates (and) downregulates the immune system-but seems to do more downregulating for its own growth.
From the article:
Immunomodulation by Malassezia One of the first studies to demonstrate the ability of Malassezia to modulate the immune system was carried out by Takahashi et al. (429). Different amounts of live or heat-killed suspensions of Malassezia were injected intraperitoneally into mice on various days before they were challenged intraperitoneally with Salmonella enterica serovar Typhimurium. In all cases, pretreatment with even small amounts of Malassezia resulted in some resistance to infection, but maximal benefit was observed if the mice received Malassezia 4 days before the challenge with serovar Typhimurium. Injection of Malassezia resulted in increased numbers and bactericidal activity of intraperitoneal macrophages, indicating that macrophage upregulation was the protective mechanism against subsequent bacterial challenge. The protection was comparable to that induced by Propionibacterium acnes, a known stimulator of the reticuloendothelial system. Two years later, the same group studied the ability of Malassezia to protect mice against challenge with tumor cell lines (430). Pretreatment with Malassezia significantly enhanced survival of the mice when they were challenged with a tumor cell line. The protection was due to stimulation of the macrophages to produce oxygen intermediates. Therefore, these studies demonstrate that Malassezia is able to upregulate phagocytic cells and thus provide enhanced protection against bacterial and tumor cell challenge in animals.
In contrast to these findings, a study by Walters et al. (458) demonstrated that Malassezia was also able to downregulate the immune system. Various preparations (formalized whole cells, culture supernatant, and a cellular fraction) of Malassezia serovar B (synonym, M. globosa) were coincubated with keratinocytes or peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC), and release of IL-1 was determined at various time points. The levels of IL-1β released by PBMC coincubated with formalized whole cells were significantly lower than those of the negative control. The authors suggested that this depression of IL-1β release might contribute to the lack of inflammation seen in diseases such as PV and help Malassezia to evade detection by the immune system.
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TNT
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I'm playing the devil's advocate here a little, but this chart seems to show that even nystatin will inhibit the growth of M. pachydermatis. It just takes more of it.
posted
NOTE: I deleted a post re. onion juice treatment of the scalp. It said it was not medical advice, but I want to emphasize that no one should try that without the advice of their physician. Some people are sensitive to onion fumes so do NOT try that.
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TNT
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Hey Dan,
Are you getting any hits?
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Strange question, but I just randomly saw an article the other day about people using Monistat cream for hair growth, and if this yeast is on the scalp, I wonder if that would work (to put it on the scalp to treat this yeast, not for hair growth, but it seems safe to use that way)?
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D Bergy
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I did not have any noticable response to the frequencies listed for Malasezzia.
I am probably not a good test case as I really don't have any solid evidence I have an abnormal amount of it.
Dan
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