Topic: Why is no one doing heparin injections for babesia etc?
CD57
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Is anyone doing this? There were some papers out awhile ago saying that heparin highish dose was anti-babesia because it coats the RBCs so they can't replicate or some such. It would seem that it would be anti-bartonella as well, or anything else that lives in the vascular system.
It's also the primary biofilm agent and works for hypercoagulation.
Is anyone doing this? I read that it is used for 6-9 months for Lyme patients and may go something like this: 5000 units 2x day, build up to 14,000 units 2x/day. Herxing is possible.
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poppy
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Getting stuck with needles constantly is no fun. Pills easier to take.
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posted
I think because not many LLMDs are well-versed in using it. They may even be scared of it. I loved being on heparin. Of course, I had (have?) hypercoagulation, so that is prob why!
I was sensitive to something in the injections, so had to go to the compounded oral troches. They worked great!!
No babesia here!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CD57
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Lymetoo, how long have you been on heparin and what is your troche dose? I tried sublingual with no noticeable effect for a little while.
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Haley
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Do you have a link that talks about that study? I have a port and can do IVs. I never heard of it stopping the replication of Babs. If it stops the replication of Babs it would also stop the replication of other pathogens.
What is considered a high dose?
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posted
I took heparin during my Lyme treatment. I was treated from 2000-2004 .. I think I stayed on the troches longer than that. I'll try to find the package.. I saved it.
Haley.. I'll PM you. Everyone's dosage is different. It is tailored to your blood's thickness.
CD57 .. Maybe your Dr did not raise your dosage to get the right level?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CD57
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CD57
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Lymetoo, can this work even if your blood is not super thick? I'm assuming that you had tests to prove you needed this, regardless of the hypercoagulable state that we are all in because of these bugs?
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posted
CD57 .. My LLMD says 80% of Lyme patients have hypercoagulation.. so it's a safe bet it will work. However, you can't take heparin if your blood is fine. Systemic enzymes would work for the other 20%.
Here was the dosage I was on:
11,000 U B
one troche two times daily
Later I took less than that .. I guess as I improved and my blood got better.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CD57
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Oh ok so that's 11,000 units. I think most start at 5000 units and work up to 14,000.
What did you notice -- that treatment worked better?
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posted
Herxed harder .. abx gets into the cells better and more deeply.
relieved pain, helped brain fog, better energy
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Haley
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Wow CD57. That is a great link. I sent it to my doctor. I'm going to start this. One IV in the morning and one at night.
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CD57
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Yes I can't figure out why they are not using it. APparently it's a treatment used a lot in CFS?
If you have a PICC and use heparin to prevent clotting, that heparin is sitting in the line not really going into your system. Ask your doc how to get it into your system.
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Haley
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Yes Lymetoo. I have IV Heparin and I have a port. I want to use it with my IMRS mat that I have for one month. I will ask my doc about dosage.
I have a good feeling about the combination of the Mat and the heparin. I think finding this link was destiny. Will report back.
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CD57
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Haley am glad to hear it. Keep us posted please. I am also asking about this at my next appt. I did some online searching and found a post where someone had started at 5000 units 2x day and went up to 14000 units 2x day. She didn't notice anything until the higher doses.
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posted
Hubby tried this back in 2003 or 2004 I think it was. He had a PICC line and we used the IV heparin. Also tried the sublingual troches that LymeToo mentioned. The sublingual form was pretty expensive.
At the time hubby did this he was not on very aggressive babesia treatment -- doing the low dose quinine and clindamycin protocol I think.
Hubby also tried nattokinase -- was very expensive high dose. For him lumbrokinase and small amounts of wobenzyme seemed to work the best of anything he tried for hypercoagulation.
I think different people do better on different protocols.
Also you should be aware that some people do better on heparin from pork sources and others with heparin from beef sources according to one of hubby's former docs.
Bea Seibert
If I remember correctly we got a reuseable vial of heparin (must be refrigerated) and I measured out the dose into a 10cc syringe and mixed it with either sterile water or normal saline and did an IV push. The heparin would sometimes stop hubby's seizure-like spells so it was obviously doing some good. But keeping a consistent bloodlevel did not seem possible. Doing the lumbrokinase 3 times daily just seemed to work better.
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posted
Haley.. be sure to get the proper blood work.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CD57
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I had my doc appt today and presented him with this paper. He didn't appear to have known about it, and anyway is willing to try the therapy. I had to get the ISAC/Esoterix panel done first which I did today, for hypercoagulation.
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nefferdun
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If you take heparin long term it can cause osteoporosis. Even when it is given to young pregnant women, it can make their bones brittle causing fractures. That is one very good reason not to take it long term.
I took it a year ago for ten days. It burns like *(&^% when you inject it. It can also rupture blood vessels causing horrific bruising. In fact, I still have discoloration of my skin from those injections.
There are much safer ways to thin your blood and attack biofilm. I use LipoPhos EDTA and Boluoke.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Haley
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I've never heard of the ISAC/Esoterix panel. Will ask my doc about it. Is there a test through Lab Corp? Does anyone know the name of it?
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CD57
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Labcorp Haley, yes. They bought Esoterix. Your doc will know. It's a Labcorp form.
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A lot of CFIDS patients were doing heparin for hypercoagulation issues years ago -- I had never heard this about babesia. My point though was that people did heparin subcu and seemed to tolerate it fairly well in general.
I am glad to know this since I can't seem to ever tolerate Mepron for very long and my babs is bad.
It seems like if it coats the RBC to keep babs from replicating it would be working via a very different mechanism than just attacking biofilms. Is anything else known to do that? (coat the RBC)?
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I had the ISAC panel. Back then it was thru Hemex. It is a MUST if you intend to do heparin therapy.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CD57
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Well I had a testimonial/blog about someone with babesia who got from it and never actually treated it.....they were doing heparin and had found that paper. I'll see if I can find it.
If it were to affect babesia then it should in theory affect bartonella and Lyme, which are also in the vascular system.
I think the idea is 6-9 months of theraoy. And yes it seemed to be a CFS treatment from several years back.
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Haley
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Apparently it kills it quickly. I read one post that said they got a DVT (deep vein thrombosis). They quickly got on IV heparin and it got them well from their other illnesses.
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CD57
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I don't think sublingual is supposed to work, Tailfeathers. My LLMD said it doesn't and I had no results from it either. It could also be dose dependent.
Haley I read that same paper.
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posted
I tried 11,000 units of heparin injected into my lower abdomen twice a day for 9 months, to try to eradicate a very persistent Babesia duncani infection. I also took plaquenil and malarone for two months during that time. The plaquenil and malarone were VERY hard to tolerate; the only problem with the heparin besides the inconvenience was widespread bruising and hair loss. 5 weeks have passed since I finished heparin, and the bruises remain, most of my hair is gone, and the babesia symptoms are back - sweats, frequent nausea and headaches, balance problems and air hunger.
I also have Lyme and probable bartonella.
-------------------- Diagnosed with Lyme in 2011, Babesia duncani 2014, probable multiple strains of bartonella. Posts: 1 | From Chicago | Registered: Jan 2015
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One of my best babesia treatment was Zithromax plus Mepron. Artemisinin rotated with cryptolepis, bolouke and heparin injection twice a day. Infrared sauna, juicing, raw garlic in the AM.
Another one was clindamycin plus quinine plus herbs and heparin.
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tdtid
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While I was on IV abx, my doctor added heparin for much of the time.
I was REALLY out of it back then, so sadly I can't really tell you much about my experience with it.
Only that I know it was given through the port for 16 months off and on.
Always interesting to read about various things that may have contributed to the healing process that you never really gave much thought to.
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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