posted
Hello, I have been feeling quite good and have been off of antibiotics/antimalarials for a while.
I possibly have some babesia creeping back in with chills and head pain.
I have also been having night sweats but my gynecologist recently told me I am starting to be in perimenopause because periods are fluctuating between very light and very heavy.
Is there any way to differentiate night sweats that are from babesia or perimenopause? The chills and head pain could be from perimenopause too I suppose.
Are they the same? Feel the same? I am in my mid-forties and was hoping to get a few years in between Lyme stuff and menopause.
I started using bioidentical progesterone cream on my own yesterday as my gynecologist recommended a progesterone IUD which I am not down for doing.
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I would NOT use an IUD if only to control this symptom. There are better, safer, less invasive delivery systems for this.
If the IUD is any kind of plastic, it can contribute to endocrine disruption symptoms, too.
And a LL ND would be so much better educated to offer you many full range approaches.
Not sure of the difference for me in perimenopause & menopause. I'm not sure I even when through the intermediate phase at all.
Back to the question, how to tell the difference?
Huge difference for me.
Night sweats from babesia were never ending, continual drenching.
Hot flashes with menopause were any time of day, could be night but not only.
And they were short - all well & good one second and then - boom - the furnace was just ON. After a few minutes, heat source just suddenly stopped (like if you have one of those infrared heaters - when on you, hot, when off you, not),
heat not quite gone as suddenly but soon, maybe soaked but the waterworks coming from pores also turned off.
Menopause hot flashes were a walk in the park compared to the babesia night sweats. Yes, they were intense. Yes, left me drained & shocked. Still, a walk in the park compared to the malaria-like babesia sweats.
Of course, each woman's experience can differ. There are many factors.
However, I was seeing a naturapathic doctor at that time and a quick new custom herbal formula stopped all menopause symtpoms. I probably only had about a dozen hot flashes in all and no other menopause symptoms at all.
If you can, see a LL ND. Most ND can help with menopause even if they are not LL but one who is LL will have a fuller body of knowledge that will be most helpful. Same goes for an acupuncturist, who is likely also trained in herbal medicine.
Be sure to AVOID ALL LOTIONS, SOAPS that contain ANY PETROLEUM PRODUCTS. Avoid all SYNTHETIC fabrics or "wrinkle resistant" clothes / sheets.
Avoid polar fleece blankets unless a cotton blanket is under it so it's not the closest to you. Still, especially now that spring is near (?) any kind of fleece bedding can make sweats worse.
Lands' End and LLBean have the best cotton sleepwear.
Find book (library has it) or articles from:
Tori Hudson, ND (she specializes in women's health issues and is a nationally recognized speaker, author) Not a LL ND yet excellent for herbal health for women.
This book is essential, it's that good.
And look up ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS to be sure you avoid all those (plastics with foods, certain chemicals, etc.) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thank you Keebler and Sixgoofykids for your insight.
Sixgoofykids, is there anything you attribute not going through menopause to?
Do you use bioidentical hormones or anything?
Keebler, I will most likely go to a ND if things don't balance out soon.
The sweats: once, about a month ago, I had what i would consider to be a hot flash as it was in the daytime and I got very hot, sweaty, but it lasted all of 2 minutes. I didn't have to take layers off or anything, was out shopping.
I feel like the sweats at night which are the full, drenching deal, are happening too often though to be babesia.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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As far as menopause, I guess it's just not my time. :/
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Babesia sweats can be constant and drenching. : - (
Do see either an LLND or an MD who treats menopause with bio-identical hormones, so you can get tested and treated, if necessary, to rule that out.
That symptom makes sleep next to impossible!!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- You say "the sweats at night which are the full, drenching deal, are happening too often though to be babesia." (end quote)
And you discount the "chills and head pain" as also tied to perimenopause.
Be very careful here.
I'm not sure where you got those ideas.
Babesia can absolutely cause the "full, drenching deal" - I needed a canoe just about every night for about a year when it was at its worst - before I had even heard about this or even had a way to get tested.
And also the "chills and head pains" are part of the package.
I'm concerned that whoever you are seeing to treat TBD may not have conveyed to you necessary information or maybe you assume symptoms just "cant' be" so you don't inform them of all that is going on.
Or, that it's just been too long - that is common for many patients to just assume the passage of time should have corrected the infections even if treatment has not yet been adequate or not yet achieved desired results.
You say you've been doing okay off antibiotics and antimalarials (that address babesia) for awhile now.
But babesia can require frequent re-treatments. It can be chronic and can take a long time to really get past it. Sorry to bring that up.
Do not let yourself down here by taking on any assumption. Please talk to your LL doctor about this. Check in.
Now, it may be that - for you - right now - this could be hormonally tied to perimenopause / menopause matters. But you need to talk to someone who is an expert about babesia, not just a gynecologist.
It's best to not assume or underestimate anything when it comes to lyme and other tick borne infections. Most certainly, babesiosis can cause drawn out drenching:
. . . Symptoms of babesiosis are similar to those of Lyme disease but it more often starts with a high fever and chills.
As the infection progresses, patients may develop fatigue, headache, drenching sweats, muscle aches, nausea, and vomiting.
Babesiosis is often so mild it is not noticed but can be life-threatening to people with no spleen, the elderly, and people with weak immune systems.
Complications include very low blood pressure, liver problems, severe hemolytic anemia (a breakdown of red blood cells), and kidney failure . . . .
[Full page at link above. Through LymeDisease.org, an TBD education & awareness organization] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- The "head pains" are especially important as that could indicate brain inflammation / swelling, common with babesia.
"Head pain" is not always swelling / inflammation, I know. Yet it's important to know that it could be.
Brain swelling is what can be fatal in malaria. And while that's much faster and aggressive than babesia is usually
it's really important to also pay attention to head pain with similar protozoa infections.
That kind of brain swelling can affect various other symptoms in our body if it puts pressure on the "control board" so to speak and especially at the base of the brain stem.
In just the past couple weeks, doctors have found that the brain swelling in malaria is what can cause lung failure. Could also be a key to babesia's common symptom of breathing troubles.
Although you don't mention breathing problems right now, the point is that because babesia can return and can be very serious, I would never take what a doctor not "babesia educated" (your gynecologist) has to say as the last word on what your symptoms mean.
Again, I'm so sorry to shoot cold water on you right now (but it may feel good, eh? but it's no joke ).
Please call your LLMD on Monday morning and see if you could at least have a phone consult very soon. You need to consult someone who is expert in understanding all possible about babesia.
And ask the LLMD if they can recommend a LL / TBD literate gynecologist. It will do no good to see one who is not. They have to have the full picture to be able to sort it out.
However, it's very rare to find a LL gynecologist and they really would not have herbal background so a LL ND might be best other than for physicals and lab work that a gyn. would do.
Good luck. Take care. This will get sorted out, really. Sorry it's taken a detour off the intended path. -
[ 03-21-2015, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
35 Symptoms of Perimenopause -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- As she is 3,000 miles form you, you are not likely to go into her office. Although, she likely knows some NDs near you. You could call her office and inquire.
And she knows enough about lyme that she would not treat me (even for gynecological symptoms) because she said I required someone far more knowledgeable about lyme / TBD and that my case was just too complex. That was many years ago.
So, if you ask her office manager if she might just know someone in your area who is a ND and also LL, she will know the importance of this.
Tori Hudson, ND - Naturopathic Physician, Author, Educator and Researcher
Articles - Resources
Dr. Hudson is a national lecturer, contributor to many magazines, books, author, educator and researcher.
She has 29 years of experience and expertise in women’s health utilizing nutrition, nutraceutics, herbs, natural hormones and other therapies to treat all gynecological and primary care conditions.
Dr. Hudson is the Program Director for the Institute of Women’s Health and Integrative Medicine and is the Director of research, development and education for Vitanica, an herbal/nutritional supplement company for women’s health care products. -
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Keebler
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posted
- Search this book at www.amazon.com - or get it through Interlibrary Loan
Women's Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine: Alternative Therapies and Integrative Medicine for Total Health and Wellness
- by Tori Hudson, ND 2007
- You can look inside the book here & see 34 reader reviews -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Search at www.amazon.com for with Interlibrary Loan for:
Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom (Revised Edition): Creating Physical and Emotional Health and Healing
by Christiane Northrup M.D. (Author) - 2010
- You can look inside the book and see 126 reader reviews here, too. -
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Keebler
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posted
- Anyone in this field would also have knowledge of women's health issues. I had suggested calling Tori Hudson's office for a recommendation as I think Dr. Hudson is extraordinarily knowledgeable in women's health matters and anyone she recommends is likely to be as well.
Topic: How to find a LL ND (naturopathic doctor), acupuncturist, etc.
Includes how to find an ILADS-educated LL ND, an Acupuncturist (L.Ac.), a doctor of Oriental Medicine (O.M.D.), or a doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine (D.Ay.), etc.
[ 03-22-2015, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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dbpei
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posted
I had a late menopause at age 55. I am 60 now. During the last 2 years before my last period, I remember having light periods or no periods some cycles and then having very heavy periods other cycles.
I don't remember having drenching sweats that would saturate my clothes or sheets. But I would have episodes of intense heat and perspiration (especially in my face and neck) that would last 2 or 3 minutes. I had these once or twice a day and sometimes at night.
Increase in head aches due to hormonal changes can occur during menopause also. But I would be concerned about things like constant head pressure, which sounds more like Lyme and co. I don't remember having chills at this time either.
Having tick borne illness makes it so very hard to distinguish between the two sometimes... I think you should discuss all of this with your LLMD, if you still have one.
I know someone who had been taking bio progesterone (age 50 and not yet through menopause) and had been in remission for a few years from Lyme. When she went off the progesterone, she had a return of many of her Lyme symptoms. Her LLMD ordered a western blot, which showed she was having an active infection again!
Very tricky stuff! Good luck.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Such helpful responses here. Thank you everyone!
I am thinking it must be Babesia. I have really bad head and neck pain, although I hurt me neck a month ago (actually my chiropractor did), so I am not totally sure on these symptoms either.
No night sweats the last 2 nights but I started Artemesia that I had hanging around and the progesterone cream the same day. Oh well!
Thanks again. I am going to check out some of the resources mentioned above. Keebler; very good resources as always. Thank you!
Onward and hopefully upward! Enjoy your day all!
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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poppy
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posted
I had headaches and hot flashes from menopause. The babesia was not drenching night sweats, but it also can produce headaches.
The babs is gone now but if I stop HRT, the hot flashes, etc, come right back.
I do think lyme can affect the autonomic nervous system in a way that can also bring perspiration that is not normal.
[ 03-22-2015, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: poppy ]
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BoxerMom
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posted
I am also on topical compounded progesterone for possible perimenopause. My only symptom is weird cycles.
The other symptoms you mentioned are Babesia for me, but Babesia plays a huge role in hormones and autonomic nervous system.
Honestly, I would continue progesterone and treat a possible Babesia relapse. You do not want Babs getting a foothold again.
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