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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » AMAZING GET YOUR LYME CONFIRMED ONCE AND FOR ALL

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Author Topic: AMAZING GET YOUR LYME CONFIRMED ONCE AND FOR ALL
SacredHeart
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http://phys.org/news/2013-06-classic-microscopy-reveals-borrelia-bacteria.html

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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SacredHeart
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"Using our method, the Borrelia bacteria in the red blood cells stand out clearly after one to two days at room temperature. We manage to make the bacteria visible without using staining (which can only be used on dead preparations). Keeping the bacteria alive allows us to monitor the bacteria through the microscope.

The researchers add a dilute saline solution to the blood preparation. The blood cell then swells up and most of the blood plasma breaks up and disappears.

"The swollen red blood cells become clearly visible. The images are sharper and clearer than those produced by other methods we know of, and they often show incredible details.

We can observe how the bacteria emerge from the blood cells. Not all of the structures seen when the blood cells expel material are classically shaped Borrelia bacteria.

Visualization of various Borrelia life stages can be enhanced by adjusting the concentration of the salt solution to give more detail.

A common conception is that Borrelia bacteria in human blood have a spiral or zig-zag shape. However, the absence of such shapes in the blood does not exclude the presence of the bacteria.

The researchers see examples of the bacteria straightening out after 24 hours, or they may exist as tiny structures with simple geometrical shapes, or form round structures (the aforementioned cyst stage).

"Our experiments show that virtually all the bacteria change into the cystic form in the course of just one hour. We can then expose them to almost any antibiotic medication, but nothing destroy these.

It is well known that these bacteria migrate and thrive in parts of the body with little oxygen, such as joint tissue. They lie there and wait for the host's health to deteriorate.

Bacteria constantly leak out into the bloodstream. The patient is given antibiotics, which destroy the bacteria that leak out, the immune system recovers and the treatment stops. But the source is still in the body.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-06-classic-microscopy-reveals-borrelia-bacteria.html#jCp

................................................

Breaking up the text for easier reading for many here -

[ 07-24-2015, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Lymetoo
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Pretty cool!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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SacredHeart
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Yes, the last part is very interesting. I believe this shows why pulsing is important.

I am having some of meds pulsed, but as soon as I can get a job and make some money I'll see if I can find someone that pulses the way it is supposed to be done.

Maybe he would be willing to pulse all of it if he saw the information.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Lymetoo
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Shows the importance of flagyl.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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susank
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This article is from two years ago?

In the meantime - what has happened with this discovery?

Sounds like a valid test. Why is it not heard of - and I assume it is not being used - at least in the US for Dx???

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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TF
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This article is 2 years old. It says what Burrascano has always said: in the presence of antibiotics, lyme goes into the cyst form until it senses the antibiotics are gone.

That is why Burrascano says you have to treat both the spirochete form and cyst form simultaneously. No pulsing is required.

I got rid of lyme on amoxi (for spirochete form) and flagyl (for cyst form) taken together. I didn't pulse. Took them every day. It worked.

See this quote from your article:

"As soon as the highly motile and active bacteria experience a deterioration in their living conditions, they form cysts, which are the dormant stage of the life cycle.

Bacteria may also aggregate in colonies in a slime called a biofilm. This protects them from external threats such as antibiotics, disinfectants and the body's own immune system.

When the environment is favourable once more, the Borrelia bacteria revert to their usual spiral form. Both cysts and individual structures may germinate and produce new spirochaetes when living conditions are favourable."

From page 13 of Burrascano:

"When present in a hostile environment, such as growth medium lacking some nutrients, spinal fluid, or serum with certain antibiotics added, Bb can change from the spiral form (“spirochete”) into a cyst form.

This cyst seems to be able to remain dormant, but when placed into an environment more favorable to its growth, Bb can revert into the spirochete form.

The antibiotics commonly used for Lyme do not kill the cystic form of Bb. However, there is laboratory evidence that metronidazole and tinidazole will disrupt it.

Therefore, the chronically infected patient who has resistant disease may need to have metronidazole (or tinidazole) added to the regimen."

In the UK and Europe, it is extremely difficult for people who test negative for lyme to get any lyme treatment. So, this research will help many, many ill people over there. We had some videos of the horrible situation over there posted on LymeNet about 2 years ago. Pitiful.

They don't have anything like Igenex and a lyme specialist is RARE. Germany has a few and Poland maybe. None in the UK. So, folks are worse off over there.

.............................................

Breaking up text for easier reading for many here -

[ 07-24-2015, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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SacredHeart
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So can anything other than flagyl be used to bust cysts in the world of prescriptions? I'm not talking about natural stuff.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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triathlongal
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quote:
Originally posted by SacredHeart:
So can anything other than flagyl be used to bust cysts in the world of prescriptions? I'm not talking about natural stuff.

Tindamax is another cyst buster.
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TF
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As Burrascano says:

metronidazole (flagyl)

or

tinidazole (Tindamax)

Any good lyme doc knows this and treats the cyst form of the disease. Some lyme docs won't treat the cysts. They fear these 2 meds. You have to find out where your doc stands on this. No sense treating without a cyst buster. That is just a big waste of time!

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Lymedin2010
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This is the reason why I made the microscopy thread. Really you don't even need the sugar/saline solution to see the spirochetes, but that method will allow one to see the spiros translucently through the red blood cells.

Peter Kemp, is yet another person with Lyme & who does microscopy. He has used the method described above with great video images. I have also great video of the spiros outside the cells of my blood.

Hold on to your seats, because what I am about to tell you is really scary. I have watched my blood for about 4 years now & no abx combo has been able to eliminate the spiros in my blood.

I have tried all sorts of combos, including months of flagyl & tindamax combos. I have incorporated herbs as well & have had some of the best combos imageanable.

There is only one time frame, that I realize now, where I should have seen spirochetes in my blood but did not. And that is when I first got sick & I was on IV Rocephin.

While I was on Rocephin I checked for hours & days & could not find any borrelia in my blood. So it looks like Burrascano was right in this part...there will be certain individuals who will only get better with IV abx.

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Lymedin2010
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P.S. Morten Laane, one of the researchers in your post appeared in Under Our Skin 2:Emergence & he publically confessed to the microscopy work.

It turns out that the evil powers found out about his work & shut his research down. Here is the clip where he reveals the microscopy work.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QTlcgCql2k0

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D Bergy
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Has anyone ever heard reference to the size of the various forms?

There is a way of targeting a pathogen using Rife frequency treatments by size.

Someone has even made a calculator for this purpose.

I believe I can hit at least two forms with frequencies I use now, but I also believe I am missing some forms.

Thank you.

Dan

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TNT
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Hey Dan,

Not sure if anyone can give an exact size for these different forms, as they do vary in size and length. Perhaps Lymedin2010 will have some input.

From what I have seen, I would say that the cysts are approximately .5 - 1.0 microns in diameter. The ketes vary in length drastically from approximately 2 microns to perhaps 30 microns (yes, it is rare, but I have seen them that length).

[ 07-24-2015, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: TNT ]

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D Bergy
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No wonder it is so difficult to hit all forms.

Since a cyst form would seem to be one consistent form of Lyme, maybe a frequency
for that with a small sweep would be sufficient?

Thank you for the info.

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Lymedin2010
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Typical sizes I see are:

Blebs = .4-1.5µm (microns)

Cysts = .5-2µm

Spirochetes = 1.5µm to 25µm as the most widely seen ranges of the majority of spiros.

Large Spirochetes = 25µm- 60µm & some are even longer. At this point they can bend & curl & even twist in on themselves to form a double helix & thicker strand.


Here is a video I made of a long spirochete, which I highlight in red at one point in the video. This spiro goes on to bend on itself like a hairpin & then twist in on itself. As it does you can see a thicker double strand emerge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAmEMz-t1dA

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Lymedin2010
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Here is another video of a spiro that forms a cyst.


The entire time the spirochete string (right & bottom from center greyish WBC) dances around & at the end of the video (starting at time 9:20) it finally curls up into a cyst. Go toward the end to see the final few scenes where it cysts up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJ5Zit6q0U

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SacredHeart
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Wow.....This is interesting and super depressing. lol Is there a discussed method on how to use the saline solution?

I'd like to be able to draw my own blood and observe.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TNT
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Yeah, SacredHeart, this is very easy to do with a half decent scope. You gotta try it! Just don't have nightmares. [Eek!]

Lymedin2010, please show us what you are referring to as blebs if you have any pics or videos. I don't think I have seen any yet, unless the fat, ghost-like "waving" "ketes" I'm seeing are blebs, but these are much longer than 1.5 microns. They average 5 or 6 microns in length, whatever they are.

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D Bergy
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Super interesting. Nice work.

Dan

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SacredHeart
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TNT, can you link me on info regarding how to set up the slide and the saline solution?

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TNT
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SH, I don't do the saline solution. I just prick my finger and put a small drop on each end of the slide and put a cover-slip over each drop, and start viewing.

I don't even use oil anymore, because I am so loaded with ketes I see them fairly quickly. At first I was sealing the drops off with immersion oil to preserve the blood longer, but I found it sometimes compromised the sample. I still get a good 12 hours of viewing per slide, sometimes longer.

Actually, Lymedin2010 has a slide making tutorial on youtube. Just search for "Borrelia-tamer" and subscribe to his channel. That's how I learned.

Someone else will have to give instructions for Morten Laane's saline procedure. I, too, would like to know the details on how to do it.

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TNT
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quote:
Originally posted by TNT:
I don't even use oil anymore

(I don't use oil to seal the slip cover anymore). Also, my dark phase lens is not an oil lens, and I don't have to for that either.

My 100x dark phase lens is an oil lens, so I will have to use oil once I start viewing with it.

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Lymedin2010
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SacredHeart, you can check the actual paper published for the mechanism here & you really only need 2 items (distilled water & sodium-citrate). BUT keep in mind that you don't need to use this method to see the spirochetes, this method will only allow you to see it through the Red Blood Cell where it is normally invisible.
http://counsellingme.com/microscopy/MysterudAndLaane.pdf


You only need to use the method I show in this video & a microscope to see it with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ1scQdbmtg

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Lymedin2010
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TNT, I thought you can easily tell by my last "My HORRiFiC Lyme disease blood (Borrelia burgdorferi) P1" video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbin5ZT6A5s

I always meant to do a total morphology video, showing the exact stages & transitions. It looks like I may have to speed things up now, since I thought it was self evident on my last video.


So in the My HORRiFiC Lyme disease blood video, look at the medusa colony & see how it develops into the String Of Pearls (SoP's). Those dots on the body of the spirochete ARE THE BLEBS. The string of pearl formation is the formation of blebs or spores.


Then look at how the SoP's break up. They mostly break up with a piece of the spirochete body with it & over time the body piece dissolves & you are left with just the bleb or dot (.4-1.5µm (microns)). Most are in the order .4-1µm though & very small & can be confused with lysosomes, fat droplets, shrunken & ghosted RBC's, & other coccoids.


The times I know with more certainty I have blebs in the plasma is when I see many parts of borrelia broken up partly & have for instance a body & only 3 dots on them. Then I know with more certainty that what I am looking at has many blebs around.


This is the reason why when we look at Lyme diseased blood, that it looks so bad & riddled with artifacts. Those artifacts are in fact borrelia cut up into many pieces to spread the blebs or spores. This video is a first of its kind & it serves as such a great example of what is happening in our blood & with our sick bodies.

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Lymedin2010
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Why does Dr. Joseph Burrascano promote Advanced Labs BLOOD CULTURE to detect borreliosis from a sample of your blood?


Because the great doctor now too knows that the spirochetes can EASILY be found in the blood of those that are chronically sick with Lyme.
http://www.researchednutritionals.com/information.cfm?id=255


I still don't know how much of bb will be present in someone newly bitten & infected with Lyme, since borreli grows slowly. I would imagine it would take a few weeks to months to start seeing & detecting them in the blood.

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TNT
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Lymedin,

Ok, I went back and watched your video. Somehow I missed that piece of info when I watched it before.

The things you are referring to as blebs I have been thinking are cysts. I see the ketes coming out of them, so I assumed they were all cysts. I guess technically I have yet to see a kete detach from one of these "cysts."

So, how can one really tell the difference between cysts and blebs? My lyme brain is kicking in presently (can you tell?).

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TNT
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymedin2010:
Why does Dr. Joseph Burrascano promote Advanced Labs BLOOD CULTURE to detect borreliosis from a sample of your blood?

Because the great doctor now too knows that the spirochetes can EASILY be found in the blood of those that are chronically sick with Lyme.

Actually, Dr. Burrascano has known this for a long time.

I'm reading parts of the book, The Beginner's Guide to Lyme Disease, by Nicola McFadzean, N.D.(She quotes some excerpts from the IDSA guidelines and expertly proves their fallacies. That's what's got my interest, actually).

The reason I mention this book is because Dr. Burrascano wrote the Foreword.

Here is a paragraph from the foreword:

"My personal Lyme story began in the mid-1980s when the pathologist at my local hospital, the genius Dr. Alan MacDonald, one day invited me to his makeshift 'skunkworks,' a little lab he created in an abandoned part of the hospital morgue. There he showed me his custom-built microscope, but more importantly he had me look through the eyepiece. And there they were-crazy looking undulating thread-like bacteria that he was able to grow out from the blood of many of my patients. Yes, they were Borrelia burgdorferi, the spirochetal bacterium known to cause Lyme disease."

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Lymedin2010
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That is so very interesting & I did not know that.


I assumed that Dr. Alan MacDonald, Dr. Burrascano & others in the know around the Lyme community discovered this through Morten Laane & then Dr. Alan MacDonald made his youtube videos showing the spirochete via microscopy.


At about the same time the announcement came with Dr. JB about the blood culture tests.


TNT, I am going to move some of this info into the microscopy thread so I don't have to type things over again & in case others have the same questions.

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TF
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Dr. Burrascano and Alan MacDonald were a team in the '80s when Burrascano was figuring out that his patients were sick with lyme.

He designed his protocol (dosages, length of treatment, meds, etc.) based on the feedback from Dr MacDonald who was checking the patients' blood.

When MacDonald/Burrascano found that the lyme was not killed in a short course of antibiotics and Burrascano reported this to his medical colleagues, Burrascano became public enemy #1 in the medical community around there. I heard him tell the story once. They stopped returning his calls, began spreading rumors that he was gouging his patients with long-term treatment to get rich and put in a tick-shaped swimming pool, and so many other sad things.

That is how the lyme controversy began! It affected Dr. MacDonald's career also.

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SacredHeart
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Cool thanks for the links. =)

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Lymedin2010
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TF, I was going to ask...how the heck do you know this? But it looks like he verbally disclosed this info.

Any more inside juicy details about AM & JB regarding microscopy & testing?

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TF
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Burrascano told the story at a meeting or conference. It was a smaller group. But, it was videotaped and I watched the tape. I believe this is one of the very few times Burrascano told the story of how he became an enemy to his colleagues over this disease.

If you have not watched the 3 MacDonald videos that he did in 2013, you would enjoy them. First one is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tESJVvM88

I posted the notes I took on them back in 2013. The notes are here:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/128852?#000000

In the first part of the series, he tells his early work (right out of school--in the '80s) where he specialized in looking at blood specimens through his microscope. In the second part of his 3 part video series, Dr. MacDonald talks about all of the forms the bacteria can take. You find them all inside the biofilm community, including mutant forms (straight ones), he says.

Each video is 30 minutes long.

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SacredHeart
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So how did Burrascano become an enemy to his colleagues?

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TF
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When he reported to them that MacDonald was still finding live lyme bacteria in his patients' blood after 60 continuous days of antibiotics.

That made him persona non grata in the medical community because it went against their belief that lyme was easily cured.

So, they had to vilify Burrascano so that nobody would listen to him. That's when they made up the stories that Burrascano was just trying to get rich off his patients by continuing to treat them for lyme, and that is when they stopped talking to him, returning his calls (that they had been returning daily), and stopped wanting to hear about his/MacDonald's findings.

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SacredHeart
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That is so odd. I mean, I have all kinds of conspiracies in my head to be hones about why this would happen, but what is the reason, or

reasons?

Money?

Insurance Companies?

Vaccines?

Bio-war?

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TF
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How about pride, not wanting to be wrong, not wanting to have to retract what you said in publications, not wanting to be upstaged by an "upstart" or "rag-tag team" of unknowns when you are the medical specialty that is tasked with being the expert on lyme disease.

And, to maintain your reputation as experts so as to continue to get Government grants, have your research respected, have your patents for lyme tests, etc. respected, to continue to be respected in your chosen profession, so that insurance companies will take your opinion and so that you will not be sued for giving incorrect treatment to lyme patients in the past.

Burrascano called it "conflicts of interest" when he testified before the U.S. Congress about it in the 1990s. Search for his name in the Congressional Record. It is easy. You can see exactly what he said.

A lot of it is protection of their money stream: from Govt grants, from insurance companies using them as experts, ability to make and sell the lyme vaccine that didn't work and had to be taken off the market (because it caused lyme disease), etc.

And, he told the Congress that he feared retaliation for his testimony. And, he got it. They got the state medical board of NY after him and he had to defend himself against their charges for a few years. That cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars and lots of stress and anguish.

The medical establishment refuses to publish the research by our lyme docs (including Dr. MacDonald) and withholds Government funding from them by their refusal to acknowledge the validity of their stand. So, the IDSA retains their favored position in the medical research world and our docs have to go begging for funds like MacDonald is now doing.

John's Hopkins said about a month ago that there is no research showing that lyme disease could be the cause of Alzheimer's. So, they deny the validity of all of MacDonald's research and research of others in other countries that show the same thing.

Just like they deny the validity of the lyme blood culture test.

Put this all together to figure out what the motive must be. It's like the "in crowd" in Washington D.C. or in a school or in any other group that holds power. No dissent is allowed and don't make those in power look wrong. That's how you hold onto your power.

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TNT
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TF, you hit the nail on the head.

If Wormer, Steere, Auwerter, etc. would be taken out of the picture, things would change. These men have HUGE investments (personal, reputation, money) to protect by keeping the lid on the truth, and by smearing the names of caring, honest doctors/researchers.

MONEY, REPUTATION, POWER

But, the truth WILL prevail.

Even if not now, they will get their reward!


SH, yes to all of your reasons! Just watch Under Our Skin, or read Lab257, or Cure Unknown.

Dr. J says it pretty well in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-lHDA863TM

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duncan
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TNT, I wish I could agree with you that once the Old Guard finally is gone, things will be different.

But I fear that will not be the case. Look to some of the names on the new Guidelines' panel.

New, young blood is being pursued to carry on and propagate the Old Guards' position.

They will not just melt away into the mist. Too many dollars wrapped up into too many diagnostic companies and powerful universities and insurance concerns...And too many egos concerned with legacy and other non-$ matters.

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SacredHeart
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We need to keep them in our prayers then, that they eventually do the right thing for all of us that are sick.

I love Dr. MacDonald. Great guy to listen to. I'm glad we have some good doctors trying to help us.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TF
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If you want to hear 2 lyme doctors answer the question as to why the IDSA is behaving this way, watch this video done by a Boston TV station a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3_JwDPqGAg

Minute 10-13 gives Dr. D's explanation. He was a founding member of the IDSA and was kicked off the panel when the IDSA decided to write lyme treatment guidelines because he told the IDSA that it was too soon and not enough was known about lyme to write guidelines.

Minute 15-16 is Dr. J. giving his explanation of why this terrible medical controversy occurred and is continuing to this day.

These are 2 doctors who are in the know, so their opinions are probably closest to the truth of how all of this came down.

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surprise
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This thread should be a STICKY at the top page.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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susank
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Researching - found that this was discussed starting in 2013 at LNE:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4608

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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SacredHeart
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Great video TF. Susank, thanks for the link.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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goose
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So taking my grapefruit seed extract is pointless?? My LLMD has me on this as a cyst buster. Should I be taking flaygl or tindamax??? Do I need my LLMD to prescribe this???
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TF
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Flagyl and tindamax are prescription medications.
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SacredHeart
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goose I would ask two questions:

Is there verified evidence that grapefruit seed extract busts cysts?

Why am I not on flaygl or Tindamax?

Also, I think plaquenil -spelling- busts cysts as well. If I'm wrong on that someone let me know.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TF
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Do a search on LymeNet and educate yourself, goose.

Use search terms: cyst, GSE, grapefruit seed extract, etc.

Search only Medical Questions forum.

You will learn a lot.

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TF
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This website gives a lot of good detail about the types of conflict of interest that seem to fuel the IDSA and CDC resistance to being honest about lyme disease testing, treatment, and research:

http://lyme.kaiserpapers.org/pdfs/gao-investigation.pdf

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