dbpei
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Brucellosis is known to attack the 8th cranial nerve - which affects your hearing and balance. I have gone deaf in one ear and am noticing some mild hearing loss in my good ear now. I also have vestibular damage on both sides. I am testing positive for brucellosis but negative for everything else. I think this might be the culprit for me.
There is a form of chronic brucellosis meningitis you can have with this disease, much like bartonella. Most of my symptoms are in my neck, head, ears, jaw and sinuses - although I do have some air hunger and sweats at times. I have many odd sensations such as sizzling, buzzing, tingling and burning/squeezing pain. My ears block up and often feel full of fluid and my hearing is very distorted at times.
I have been trying to fight brucellosis for a few months with herbs, but am not noticing much improvement. I may be moving on to the right combo of ABX to fight this.
Brucellosis seems to be a recent infection that is being discovered with some Lyme patients. It is not known as being tick borne, so it is a mystery as to how I contracted it.
My LLMD thinks that I may have consumed unpasteurized cheese or milk - or raw meat years ago. I don't recall ever having done this. My doc thinks Brucella bacteria may have been in my system for years, but did not become a problem until Lyme messed up my immune system.
I am just curious to know if there are any others out there who are testing positive for brucellosis through Quest and if you relate to any of my story . Also, I would like to hear about any success with your TX, whether ABX or herbs.
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TNT
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What you share definitely describes me, but I did not get a positive blood test. This seems to be something I have had for years and years, and, from what I have read, antibody testing is almost worthless when it has become entrenched and chronic.
Culture is the best test, but regular labs like Quest only culture for several days, but it takes weeks for low levels to show.
My symptoms are a hybrid of mostly bartonella and a few babesia (but atypical babesia) symptoms. Brucella bacteria are cousins to Bartonella bacteria, but patients, according to the literature, can present with malaria-like symptoms.
I think one of the discerning symptoms is the involvement of the cranial nerves. I read that is an issue in brucellosis, but I have not read that with babesia.
Ataxia is another symptom. Also, skin involvement-particularly a maculopapular rash. GI involvement such as diarrhea is another symptom. Do you have any of these dbpei?
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I tested positive for brucella abortus. The treatment is almost the same as bartonella so I've been treated. I've seen 2 infectious disease Dr's along the way but of course both tell me its a false positive. My LLNP is the one who found it.
I couldn't tell you what symptoms exactly are realated to the Brucella because i tested positive for bartonella and ehrilicia as well.
And after 5 yrs on abx i am not well so I'm starting to look into other things. I bought an ozone machine 3 months ago and do daily insufflations and I'm thinking about Bee venom therapy also.
I know...i know, you must be thinking I'm crazy but i'll try anything at this point.
I hope you can find some answers!!
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dbpei
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I totally understand you jlcd1. I have already invested time and money in ozone treatment and many other alternative therapies but they did not help unfortunately. I also had a perfectly good and intact dental implant removed, hoping that would make a difference.
TNT, I have been lucky to not have the GI symptoms, the ataxia or the rashes although I do have rosacea and a lot of petechiae (little red bumps) that seem to run in my family.
The best treatment for the chronic form of this illness from what I have read is doxy, rifampin and bactrim although rocephin or a cephalosporin can be substituted for the bactrim. They need to be given for at least 4 months but may need as long as 2 years to work. Like Lyme, the disease goes into remission but may return when the body is stressed.
I wish there were studies on some of the herbs that are showing some success with this - but I don't know of them. The two herbs that I know are being used are Byron White, ABIO and Beyond Balance MC-CH.
I just don't want any further damage done to my hearing and vestibular system so I am at the point that I am ready to go for the big guns here and try to stop it in its tracks.
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TNT
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I think that is smart to go for the big guns. I think the herbs and naturals by themselves just piss the bugs off, but do not kill them.
I do think the naturals can be a helpful adjunct when on the big guns. Denak (Oliveria Decumbens), a plant found in the Middle East, has been helpful in treating Brucellosis. But, unfortunately, it is not available in the USA. Buhner jokes that since Denak is not oil, we cannot get it here.
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I've always suspected brucella and Quest tested negative for it at the beginning of my treatment. I've had heavy exposure to it in endemic areas. My SI joint issues began shortly after exposure, about the same time I crashed hard with a weird bunch of illnesses one right after another.
My ear stuff was horrendous for the longest time. It was like they were always full of fluid and would pop and crack at the slightest of sounds. Issues with TMJ's and sinuses too.
I had generally attributed night sweats, air hunger, vestibular, and meningeal sx to babs or being magnified by the lyme or even from the bart. Everything overlaps so much it's hard to tell what causes what sometimes.
I've been on abx for a year. I had some initial improvement in sx with tinidazole and doxy but plateaued and everything came back. The popping and cracking and fluid feelings in my ears began slowly clearing when I started bicillin.
Some of my bart sx began improving that I wondered if bicillin wasn't clearing bartonella. Apparently brucella also exists in L-form, which would account for the difficulty in effectively treating it.
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TNT
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dbpei, it's nice that you have a positive blood test. I think that if I had a positive, my doc would be willing to treat more aggressively. It's kind of hard to get adequate treatment when addressing a supposed infection like Brucellosis, since it is considered very rare.
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dbpei
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Keep testing for it. I tested negative in 2012 but tested positive for it 3 years later. Even in the past few months the titers have been going down and then up again. Treating with A BIO has definitely made them rise one month, fall the next.
I had been on doxy and rifampin for several months when I was first tested and wonder if this gave me a negative reading too. I do feel lucky that I finally tested positive for something so it can give us more confidence in going after it.
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by dbpei: The best treatment for the chronic form of this illness from what I have read is doxy, rifampin and bactrim although rocephin or a cephalosporin can be substituted for the bactrim. They need to be given for at least 4 months but may need as long as 2 years to work.
Actually, Streptomycin injections with oral Doxy is the best treatment, with Bactrim added to it in chronic, difficult cases. Rifampin and Doxy (with Bactrim added for difficult cases) is considered less-effective treatment.
But, yes, long-term treatment is usually needed either way, although the Streptomycin is usually only used for the first couple weeks if I remember correctly. So, perhaps the Rifampin is added when the Streptomycin is discontinued.
I know IV Gentamycin can be used in place of the Streptomycin. Perhaps that one is used more long term, but I do know it is not considered more effective than Streptomycin (according to the World Health Organization).
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dbpei
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I will not take any of the aminoglycosides like streptomycin and gentamycin. These are the most ototoxic of all antibiotics. I already have suffered so much damage to my hearing and vestibular system that I can't take this risk.
The Bactrim, Doxy and Rifampin are a little safer for me. Did you get this info from WHO? I hadn't read about these drugs being used in any of the studies I have found. I will have to do some more reading...
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TNT
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As for testing, I wish IGENEX would develop and offer a titer and culture for Brucellosis.
There is a test that is supposedly as good as the Coombs test, but it is not available in the USA. BUT, the US Dept. of Health use this very test for surveillance purposes (at least) for brucellosis in other countries they monitor it in such as in Mexico. Now, go figure!!!
The company did tell me that they hope to get FDA clearance to start marketing the test in the USA before too long. I talked to them over a year ago, so things may have changed.
The test is BrucellaCapt by Vircell (in Spain, I think)
dbpei
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TNT, thank you for these sites. I have been looking at info mostly on the chronic form of this illness and in my case, neuro-brucellosis. The treatment is different for this.
(I had to take excerpts because there was too much info to share here)
"Treatment of neurobrucellosis poses special problems because of the need to achieve high concentrations of antimicrobial drugs in the CSF."
"Unfortunately, some of the most commonly used drugs, especially the aminoglycosides, do not penetrate the blood/brain barrier in sufficient concentrations to treat Gram-negative meningitis effectively."
"Most authorities recommend doxycycline, rifampin and a third agent, either TMP-SMZ or ceftriaxone given for periods that range from 6 weeks to 18 months."
There are several pages in this site about all of the different classes of antibiotics that fight brucellosis, with strengths and weaknesses of each. It also differentiates the various forms of this illness. I found it to be very helpful.
I must admit that all of this is a lot for my brain to absorb... I just pray that my doc understands it all and can help me to beat this disease with the best course of treatment.
You seem to have a scientific mind, TNT. One of the tests that is often mentioned for brucellosis is the Rose Bengal test. I wonder if this is something our LLMD's can administer?
TNT
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I have a very analytical mind, but chronic infection has stolen a chunk of my IQ. It looks like you are very well studied up on the subject, too. Those are some very good articles you linked us to.
As for the RB test, I was reminded by your PLOS article of its limitations. It is a very good, quick, and cheap test, but has its limitations with highly positive results (which can appear negative), and can miss some very low levels as well.
It's interesting that in the study from that article, one patient in the negative "controls" group tested positive with RBT and it was later learned that he had had a previous infection. Interesting. Perhaps he still had very low levels at the time of the test, but was well. That would suggest that the RBT is actually pretty sensitive.
The RBT looks simple enough that one could possibly do it at home, but I don't have a scientific-enough mind to completely understand what exactly is involved.
I do remember I stumbled across a test on Ebay or Amazon that simply involved swabbing the discharge of an infected animal and sending it over-seas. It was fairly cheap but I can't seem to find it right now. If still available, it might be one way to test from home.
As for the availability of the RBT, I can't say for sure if that one is available here. My previous LLMD couldn't seem to help me find a good Brucellosis test other than the general antibody test that the main labs like Quest offer. And, I got a negative on that one a few years ago. You got a positive, though.
I think it is Quest that will check for Brucella in their general blood culture test. But my PCP didn't think it would pick up a chronic B. infection, especially since culture time is less than a week.
Medical Diagnostic Labratory in NJ has a PCR that tests for 4 or 5 species and is only $29.90. But, as we all know, PCR testing does not pick up low levels very well. That one was a negative for me, too.
Clongen labs has a Brucella PCR too, but is over $200.00.
If you happen to find out about the availability of the RBT, let us know. It does seem like something an LLMD might be able to offer in-house.
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bcb1200
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Standard Antibiotics to treat Brucellosis are: -Doxy or Minocycline -Rifampin or Rifabutin -Bactrim -Streptomycin or Gentamicin -Fluoroquinolones like Cipro / Levaquin
Typically 3 antibiotics are used together. Doxy, Rifampin, Streptomycin
These details are in Dr. H's new book.
Good herbs: -Byron White A-Bio -Beyond Balance MC-CH
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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dbpei
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BCB do you feel you are getting better? Are you taking just herbs? Or are you combining ABX? I have Dr H's book and didn't even realize he addressed brucellosis in it. Thanks for that info.
I couldn't handle MCCH but am doing ok on ABIO. I wish I knew the herbs alone could work but I am scared I am getting worse. I am also taking BEG spray and Liposomal artemisinin while chelating heavy metals (gentle and slow method). So it makes it hard to figure out what is helping and what is not.
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D Bergy
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There is info on the internet that speculates that Brucella was weaponized and combined, for lack of a better word, with Borellia Burgdorferi which has produced the modern plague of Lyme disease.
Whether that is the case or not I do not know, but where else she would have picked up Brucella I do not know either. It seems to be diagnosed quite often in Lyme patients in recent times.
My wife responds to Brucella frequencies,as I run them, but I have not noticed any particular symptoms related to the infection. She has lost hearing in the last few years, so it is possible that is caused by brucella. Of course, neither of us is getting any younger either, so it could be just aging.
I was not aware of hearing loss being associated with the pathogen. Thanks for the info.
Dan
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TNT
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The swab tests I came across a while back were something similar to these types of kits:
(For this second link, scroll about half-way down the page).
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TNT
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I have realized something about Brucellosis over the past few months that I would like to share (as I just posted this in another forum):
Babesiosis and Brucellosis have so much symptom overlap that it is hard to discern between the two. But there are differences. One thing that has dawned on me is that Brucellosis encompasses all the symptoms of Babesiosis, but Babesiosis DOES NOT encompass all the symptoms of Brucellosis.
A couple examples off the top of my head are these:
Babesiosis causes air hunger and shortness of breath...so does Brucellosis.
Babesiosis causes tippiness and loss of balance... so does Brucellosis.
Babesiosis causes hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells)...so does Brucellosis.
Babesiosis causes sweats...so does Brucellosis.
But,
Brucellosis can cause a skin rash (usually maculopapular)... Babesiosis does not.
Brucellosis usually causes wasting...Babesiosis usually does not.
Brucellosis attacks the joints, especially the SI (sacroilliac joint) and lower back...Babesiosis does not.
Brucellosis causes genitourinary issues (particularly orchitis and epididymitis in men)... Babesiosis does not.
Brucellosis can be acquired by inhalation... Babesiosis cannot be.
Here are some good links that have really helped me understand Brucellosis (I have linked these here before, but just thought I would post them again on this thread):
TNT
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I am posting this immediately after my above post, but I don't want people to miss my last post (above) on some of the differences between Brucellosis and Babesiosis.
***Please read the ABOVE post
---------------------------------------------- Here are some points on Brucellosis by Dr P taken from last year's (2014) ILADS conference:
"-Muscle pain, creaking and cracking, fever, malaise, sweats, arthralgia, back pain, chills, significant weight loss, fatigue, headache, and other symptoms can present with Brucella.
-Elevated CRP, Elevated ESR (sed rate), and anemia may present.
-Lyme disables many from their career; Brucella disables you from every aspect of your life. It is incapacitating.
-Underdiagnosed illness.
-There is a range of symptoms as with many zoonotic infections.
-It is a gram-negative intracellular microbe.
-It becomes the puppet master of the cell. Unpasteurized dairy, animal exposures to body fluids, hunters, and laboratory exposures by aerosolization are common sources of infection.
-Humans are dead end hosts though transplacental, breast milk, and sexual transmission have occurred in the literature.
-12.8% of cases happen in the winter; 78% in spring and summer.
-It has been isolated from ticks and fleas for 60 years.
-Transmission has been demonstrated with lice and blood-sucking insects in nature.
-It is not as hard to culture as Borrelia, but very close.
-It is slow growing; takes weeks for a culture positive with frequent false negatives.
-Bone marrow would be the best culture source.
-PCR is useful but new strains are commonly found.
-Chronic cases are often seronegative.
-ELISA and Agglutination Antibody testing are the most common; complement fixation testing is available in Europe and is better but not available in the US.
-Streptomycin, Gentamicin, Doxycycline, Rifampin, Bactrim, or quinolones may be used.
-It is resistant to Ceftriaxone.
-Earlier treatment results in better outcomes.
-Single agent treatments don't work.
-Treatment less than six weeks results in high failure rates.
-Herxes can be severe or fatal.
-Aminoglycosides may be used for 3 weeks with Doxycycline or Doxycycline and Rifampin for 6 weeks.
-Aminoglycoside and Doxycycline combination is more effective.
-Streptomycin is equivalent to Gentamicin in terms of effectiveness.
-There is no agreed upon curative treatment for chronic Brucellosis.
-It has blebs, L-forms, and biofilms.
-Levamisole is an antiparasitic and immune potentiator.
-Antibiotics plus Levamisole were better than antibiotics alone; though Levamisole can cause autoimmune disease and was taken off the market in 1999.
-Ivermectin may be a good replacement for Levamisole and does potentiate immunity.
-Gamma interferon is the principle cytokine involved in the protective response; no studies have been done.
-In a study with 3 groups of Brucella patients, the first group had Interferon Alpha, second had Levamisole, and third had conventional antibiotics. Groups 1 and 2 had clinical improvement and immune response. Group 1 did better than Group 2. Group 3 had no change.
-Liposomes mimic cell membranes and the immune system sees them as a foreign invader and gobbles them up. This can be used to enhance drug delivery and improve the outcome of some medications. Anionic (negative), Cationic (positive), or neutral.
-Liposomal Gentamicin study eliminated infection from monocytes; was 20 times more effective than free Gentamicin with reduced side effects.
-Would like liposomal aminoglycosides to be available.
-Brucella is related to Bartonella.
-True Brucella infection is not as common as Bartonella.
-Aminoglycosides may be a helpful option for Bartonella."
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. Also, I would like to hear about any success with your TX, whether ABX or herbs.
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