My 11 year old son is taking Ceftin for Lyme. Currently this is the only abx he is on. He started off at 125mg twice a day for 10 days; now he is on 250mg twice a day = 500mg total (according to his weight this is the dose he should be on).
About 6-7 days after this higher dose his symptoms worsened dramatically. This was about 2 weeks ago. All the detox we are trying is not really bringing the herx down - lemon water, burbur, pinella, parsley from Nutramedix, charcoal, magnesium glycinate, glutathione liposomal.
I will consult with his doctor next week but right now I want to decrease or stop the abx to get him through this. I hate seeing him go through this. If this were me, I would try to push through the herx. But this is a child. It's not necessary to herx to get better is it?
Would taking a lower dose of abx still work? Thanks.
Posts: 7 | From Canada | Registered: Jan 2016
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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- Some LLMDs and LL NDs do not want their patients to get to a rough herx point as it can be just too taxing and even counterproductive, to say the least.
I think it's always best to avoid a herx and if that means lowering abx or even stopping it, that should be considered. If you can determine that it's the reaction to the Rx (which seems the case at this time) and not the infection, itself (and not alcohol tinctures if they can be avoided).
So, yes, if he were my son, I'd step down the dose and see if that helps -- if it does not and it's still really bad, I'd stop it . . . and call the doctor on Monday morning. Too bad it's Friday evening.
As for "detox" it may be better to lean more toward a more substantial & nutritive liver & kidney SUPPORT than something that might "push" detox activity too hard.
There is a post here for children, too, a ways down:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
[ 01-08-2016, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- With lemon water, be sure to rinse mouth with clear water IMMEDIATELY after drinking that (and some stevia added can be nice so it's a lemonade - or hot lemon tea . . . and a little ginger in that might also be nice). If left to sit on teeth, citric acid from lemon can destroy the tooth enamel.
But do not brush for at least a half hour after rinsing with water. The enamel gets soft from the acid and needs that time to harden up to withstand brushing.
Also, if his stomach is upset, lemon water can be rather caustic and really hurt if not along with food.
Also be sure his torso stays upright for at least a half hour after Rx. He can rest his head / feet with a recliner but not lean too far back. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks very much! I will have to have a careful look through that.
The thing I worry about is if decreasing the dose of abx will cause bacteria to become resistant? or no?
Posts: 7 | From Canada | Registered: Jan 2016
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Judie
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quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - Some LLMDs and LL NDs do not want their patients to get to a rough herx point as it can be just too taxing and even counterproductive, to say the least.
I think it's always best to avoid a herx and if that means lowering abx or even stopping it, that should be considered...
I completely agree with Keebler. It's not necessary for everyone to go through an agonizing herx to heal.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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Herxes can kill. Suffering is not required or even desired.
Herxes are caused by too many toxins not getting thru or out of the system fast enough. My child? I'd stop the meds until the doctor can be reached. Error, if you will, on the side of caution.
Plus, if he gets too sick you will have a hard time getting him to take meds later on. They will associate meds with being really miserable and won't look too kindly on you either for forcing the issue.
Do not worry about resistance. For example, I've taken doxy on/off for 30 years with short or long breaks in between. It always works. Plus...
The meds will only work during the replicating cycle, so what is taken in between is just muddying the waters.
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Resistance will be caused by other people taking antibiotics in the ENVIRONMENT around your house, your neighborhood. It doesn't have to be inside a single person.
so RELAX!
If one person keeps taking abx and gets a resistant strain, OTHER PEOPLE who do not take abx can get the same resistant strain that will not be anyway killed by the very first time they take that abx!!
It's known in old epidemiological studies.
Avoiding resistance is nearly impossible, when you see that you have no control as an individual. It is an environmental and ecological problem.
So RELAX, let your boy get SLOWLY into treatment. You won't win lyme as you are running a 100m track race. It's more like a marathon, so go slow.
A bad herx can kill. Just ask your doctor, if he is informed enough, it is also another thing that is known in the medical literature: herxes can kill too, as well as infections!
My daughter had lyme first at age 1. We started with chlorella, bear garlic, cardamon in powder, all mixed in flaxseed oil and honey (to be digestible).
Sometimes I added special enzymes, other probiotics, astragalus, clay, charcoal, MSM, whatever tested good for her. She took that green mix above with chlorella 3x a day, minimum, to withstand herxes (only of amoxy or herbs).
Without constant intake of right binders her life would have been miserable. She wouldn't be able to digest food, nor sleep well, so it brings nothing, in the end.
She had to feel a minimum quality of life to get improvement, at least, that was my instinct as a mother.
A herx damages cells and tissues, and it can provoke a lot of pain (liver, kidney, block the lymph, cause swelling, tummy ache, headache), and on top, cause tinnitus (in my case), problems to breathe, terrible air hunger, even body paralysis, your heart beat go literally mad, you get terrible weak...
I'm not telling you that because I read it. I LIVED it.
I am one that is much more afraid of herxes than of infection. So I go slow. And I thank lyme for having come to me before my daughter, then I knew how crap she was feeling.
Sorry to be so brutal, but I hate to see kids suffering with toxin (herxes are POTENT NEUROTOXINS and toxins), and medical doctors simply ignoring that, telling people to take 'lemon'.
I mean, lemon is excellent, but lemon is not enough for many people.
I swear to you that, if the child takes the right amount and combination of good binders, the child will be mostly happy and improving much faster than any adult. They get more good moments than bad moments in a day, and they do improve.
Don't worry about resistant strains. If not due to your son, they will be there due to neighbors taking the same abx for other problems. Resistance is not created inside one single body, but it created ecologically.
The whole family and neighbors are concerned if your boy gets a resistant strain, believe me. It's not only your boy. Killing lyme fast is almost impossible (not with abx, at least).
So go slow. Herbs are much better long term, as bugs usually do not create resistance to them (because they have hundreds of chemicals, instead of only one, like an abx). There are some articles/ books on that too (like some of Buhner's books).
Antibiotics are among the most successful drugs used for human therapy. However, since they can challenge microbial populations, they must be considered as important pollutants as well.
... Residues from human environments and from farms may contain antibiotics and antibiotic resistance GENES that can contaminate natural environments.
The clearest consequence of antibiotic release in natural environments is the SELECTION of resistant bacteria.
The same RESETANCE GENES found at clinical settings are currently disseminated among PRISTINE ECOSSYSTEMS without any record of antibiotic contamination.
.........................
There are many other studies. This contamination of pristine environments which never had contact with abx is known.
It shows, for me, the end of the antibiotic era, unless abx pollution could be EXTREMELY contained, which is far from the case, due to extensive animal farming and extensive use of abx.
But no worry: there are so many other options. So many other options to abx, really.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Thank you all. I did stop the abx. We are detoxing, some homeopathics to help the liver and kidneys, charcoal. What else can I do to get the inflammation down and decrease toxin load?
Posts: 7 | From Canada | Registered: Jan 2016
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Adding sarsaparilla (twice daily) and chlorella (3000 mg per day), helps with not herding as much, along with everything else he's taking. When it's a really bad herx, then zeolite usually always helps also bentonite clay. Also Epsom salt baths. L-Ornithine helps break down ammonia. Zeolite gives the most relief but is constipating. Make sure he gets plenty to drink and fiber. I have a MTHFR methylation issue and can have horrible herxes. If you haven't tested for that yet, you might want to. Better yet, do the whole panel as other mutations might be present that need to be corrected. I take methylated Folate and B12 so my detoxing pathways function properly. Hope this helps...
Posts: 8 | From NJ | Registered: Jan 2016
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Thanks for the suggestions. I wish I could get him into the bath but he doesn't like it.
I spoke with his Dr. and she has recommended (after he takes a little break) to either do cefuroxime at the lower dose for a month first (250mg/day) or azithromycin starting at a low dose too. I'm tempted to do the azith b/c the once a day dosing makes it easier to fit in the probiotics and binders with the school day.
He does have one MTHFR mutation (C677T +/-) and he is COMT and VDR +/- as well. He was recommended to take hydroxyl B12 but he wasn't taking any methylfolate. We're going to try methylfolate now to see if he reacts well or poorly.
Posts: 7 | From Canada | Registered: Jan 2016
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Be very sure liver support is well covered so that might offer some protection to ears as well.
He sound not be around any loud bells if his school bells are loud, he should get decibel rated ear muffs to put on BEFORE the bell might sound.
The liver support links above have a thread for TINNITUS that includes how to possibly protect ears during ototoxic Rx.
Azithromycin is just one that can be hard on ears (but so can lyme so it's a catch-22). But always be mindful of how even normal sound can harm hearing when taking antibiotics and what to do about that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Ok, he has the same MTHFR mutation as me. I haven't checked for anything else. I had to add the folate slowly as I would get overwhelming fatigue when I took it every day. I took it once every 2-3 days at first and once I didn't get a reaction from that I increased by one day. Now I take it every day. With the MTHFR mutations, it's really hard to get rid of herxes completely. The first year of treatment I would herx for 2-3 weeks straight and would be in horrible pain non stop. Now that the load is lower, the herxes are more tolerable and don't get them as frequently.
It's hard because you want to keep treating so you can get better quicker but at the same time, you just can't tolerate the non stop pain and have to slow down with treatment to get relief every so often. I've been treating for 3.5 years and at this point, I know I'll be sick for some time and try to still have some quality of life so I can enjoy my kids. I have a 7, 11, and 12 yo. Can't even imagine one of my kids suffering like this... What I do now, I ramp up one herb on Monday and deal with the herx during the week. By weekend it usually subsides and try to enjoy the kids on weekends. Following Monday I add an extra drop of another herb. I take 7 anti microbial herbs, so this is a very slow process. Every extra drop though makes me herx for days. I always take the 3 antibiotics I'm on. Hopefully your son doesn't have confections, that's what's making it so tough for me.
Posts: 8 | From NJ | Registered: Jan 2016
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