Topic: igenix results...can someone tell me if a real llmd would treat based on these result
lpkayak
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posted
IGM 31++ 41+
IGG 41++
B duncani
IGM 40 it says <20 is negative
IGG <40
b. henselae
IGM <20
IGG 80 it says >40 to <160 may or may not suggest active infection
also how good is the BARTONELLA FISH test...is a negative for sure a negative?
all above tests were from same blood sample thank you for help...its been a really long time since i have had to deal with this
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
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- For lyme,
Test numbers are never going to merit treatment alone. It's the person's symptoms, history of such and physical presentation that is key first . . . then considering the test results.
I'm assuming the person for whom you ask has symptoms that are serious or they'd not have taken the test. Still, it's the person, not the test that first is evaluated.
Another question, though, is that with classic symptoms for lyme - if a test is not CDC positive will a particular LLMD still consider treatment if some bands are positive?
That's really best answered by that doctor's office manager or a short phone call with the doctor who won't be able to say exactly but if they have a rule to only go by CDC positives they should at least be able to say so.
The problem is not whether symptoms and significant test results suggest treatment needed but if politically the LLMD selected to treat will be able to do so. Even "real" LLMDs are finding the political restraints to be invasive.
The support groups around where that LLMD is located might also be able to shed some light on their office protocol.
But don't just go by what they did in the past, clarify with that office their practices at this time and if they anticipate likely changes in foreseeable future.
. . . The numbers on a Western blot such as 23, 31, 34 or 39 refer to how much that particular part of the bacteria weighs in kilodaltons.
The significant antibodies, in my opinion, are the 18, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 39, 59, 66 and 83-93. . . .
[Explains that there are various strains of borellia, so testing often misses the mark. Even if you have not traveled to various states, birds that fly - and can carry ticks and drop them off - have and they often land in NYC, too.]
. . . The same is true for co-infections. The babesia in Missouri is called MO-1. It is a different babesia. There are different ehrlichia. It would appear there is a different bartonella. When you have different strains of germs, the test results may be falsely negative. . . .
[lots more detail here] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- For babesia,
If my direction is correct this morning with greater and less than, it seems that this is a positive test for
babesia duncani with
IGM 40 -- as it says less than 20 is negative [so then, with 40, that seems like it would be positive but wonder why they don't say so]
So, then this actually helps the case for lyme being present, too. This test certainly seems to be clear to me - and, again, assuming there are physical presentations that go along.
b. henselae - well, may or may not be, as the test says but if it registers that at all, it says a lot to me & with the other one positive (as I read it), this is important to consider. -
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Keebler
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- A negative is never iron clad for tick borne infections.
As the bartonella test seems in question, I think this one is really one of the easier ones to match with symptoms that can be rather specific with feet, body markings, etc.
They should also have any pets tested - or any friends' or neighbors' pet that may have kissed them on the face. -
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TF
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If any FISH test is negative, it means nothing. It only means that they did not SEE in the very tiny blood sample they examined any of the germ named.
So, they did not see bart in the very small blood sample they looked at. However, you could still have bart; it just wasn't in that small blood sample.
If they SEE the bart (or babs, or whatever) by FISH, then you definitely have it.
The FISH test requires the lab technician to look at the blood under a very high-powered microscope. The tech looks for whatever germ the test is for.
So, think of it as you looking in a very large swimming pool to see if there are any beach balls in the pool. You look only at one corner of the pool. You see no beach balls there. So, does that for sure mean that there are no beach balls in the swimming pool? NO.
What is good about the FISH is that if they SEE the germ they are told to look for, you know for sure that you have that germ--absolutely, positively for sure.
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WPinVA
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What symptoms are accompanying these results? How sick are you? I think that is very relevant to whether an LLMD would treat with these numbers - or really with any numbers.
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lpkayak
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If my direction is correct this morning with greater and less than, it seems that this is a positive test for
babesia duncani with
IGM 40 -- as it says less than 20 is negative [so then, with 40, that seems like it would be positive but wonder why they don't say so]
***my thoughts exactly...but wanted to run it by those of you who deal with it a lot***
i thought 31 band was very specific for Bb...wasnt it the one they made vaccine out of?
this is for me. i had two attached deer ticks, one crawling in hair and a bunch of nymphs on me tho i can never be sure one attached
i have new very stiff neck that reminds me of lyme and very sore feet that reminds me of bart
i also have had what apeared to be hot flashes that come and go like during menopause...but this is not what i had during earlier babs infection
im also just plain tired, all my regular health problems are worse
thanks for help...im not sure what to do..i have doxy and rifampin and rifampin got bart for me last time...its been so long now tho and i am much more frail and my body is very different...i find myelf cautious of abx tx when i never was before
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
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TF...so it is pcr test right? i used to tell ppl its like a sand pail with shells in it...you can reach in and get lots of blood(sand) out...and miss the germ(shells
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
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ok...talked to docs office and assistant said all three are positive...wierd they dont write positive like keeb said
so i asked her if i should add artemesia and doc will get back to me
i still want input from you guys...lymenet saved me back in the day and taught me how to prevent tick bites until this year...the year nh didnt have a winter
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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TF
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PCR is a totally different test from FISH.
The polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is a technique used in molecular biology to amplify a single copy or a few copies of a piece of DNA across several orders of magnitude, generating thousands to millions of copies of a particular DNA sequence.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
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Igenex, see the tabs here for comparison detail -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lpkayak
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Ty.
Boy TF i have really been out of the loop
Keeb i have always found scotts writing easy to understand
I thunk i need to start at least rifampin and artemesia...i dont know what makes sense for Bb....last time i did it it was huge dose of amox and zith for a yr
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
My only thought is: Aren't you supposed to knock down the Lyme first, then the coinfections?
Makes it easier to kill the co's.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
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- While many have to figure out what to do on our own if without a proper LLMD -- you HAVE a LLMD. Rather than guessing which way to go, or assuming or just going down a path without exploring all the implications,
let your LLMD guide you on all of this. Put their education, wisdom & experience to work for you. -
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lpkayak
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I was told babs first by top llmd but that was 18 or so years ago so maybe it has changed
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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