I just started using a tincture with black walnut, cloves, and wormwood last week for parasites.
I woke up this morning about 3:30 with bad kidney pain and lymph pain.
I've been chugging dandelion tea so the kidneys are gradually feeling better but this pain scared me.
Has anyone else used a combination like that and had similar issues?
I've had more energy and felt better in general using the tincture so I want to continue using but maybe I'll just try one week a month until my body gets used to it...
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If you still have kidney pain, call your doctor. It's nearly 4 pm for you and you may still be able to connect.
Or, if still bad pain tomorrow morning, be sure to call your doctor.
--------------
The herbal tincture dose can make a huge difference. Perhaps the dose was too much for your body?
It's best to start very slow and stay there for a while and increase only by drop at a time.
Better to go very low dose on-going than to clobber for just one week a month, IMO. It can takes months to reach a normal dose for many of us.
This may just not be the right formula for your body. If you can consult with a naturopathic doctor or herbalist, that would be best.
Double check your source to be certain of the quality. Be sure it's not counterfeit. You might also go with a capsule rather than an alcohol tincture.
"Chugging" dandelion tea may also be too much chugging. Be sure to check the dosage of the tea.
Four cups a day is suggested as the maximum in this book:
Dandelion -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures;
Knowing that support supplements are important, but NEVER enough alone. And knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL links, and . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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The kidney pain is still there but less. I don't have an LLMD yet- appointment in April.
I do have a naturopath I can see if the pain isn't better by tomorrow.
Unfortunately, at this point I can't tolerate antibiotics because of systemic candida.
Earlier this year I tried but it quickly became crippling.
I've been trying to go about this disease as naturally as possible- as gently as I can for my system- but it's been 8 years and my body is tired and much more sensitive then it used to be.
Uggh. I was finally starting to feel better. Maybe I just went into the tincture too fast...
Anyway, I'll read the link you posted- thanks again for the information!!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
I've had problems with parasitic formulas too. Even the normal dose can be too much for some people. Personally, I think it's because we are loaded with parasites. But taking the pre made formulas didn't seem to work for me. They all made me constipated and gave me UTI symptoms. I know other people on this blog have had some serious issues resulting from them.
See your doc ASAP. Things can get real serious if you develop a kidney infection. If you are still in pain, you might want to go to the ER (seriously). Waiting it out is not worth the alternative, IMO. Even if you're not in pain, still get it checked out. I know someone who let it go and long story short, the end result was permanent.
I understand not taking abx. Many people cannot tolerate them (I can't either). My doc put me on Byron White herbs (they're awesome). I'm truly amazed that these little herbs work as well as they do. I'm starting to feel close to normal again.
As far as parasites go, once your body recovers, you can the try salt/c protocol. I love it. It's gentle and it works (slowly).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I have read on lymestrategies people referring to a kidney herx.
I know you are not on salt/c, however since salt/c kills parasites and bb, you might be having a herx from parasite dieoff.
Parasites can cause a lot of pain especially when dying and can invade all the organs including the kidneys.
As others suggested, you might want to start at a lower dose, wait until the herx calms down and then ramp up slowly again.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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dbpei
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33574
posted
Catgirl, are you saying that the BW herbs alone have helped you to pass parasites?
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
catgirl- thanks I will look into the Salt/C Protocol and Byron White herbs.
Glm- yes, a kidney herx sounds like a great description.
I know it's a herx or at least a flushing of toxins because of the lymph pain involved.
I've taken this tincture in the past when I had Giardia from bad well water August 2011.
I didn't have a reaction to it then and I took it for much longer than a week.
However, in the end I had to take Flagyl to get any relief.
I definitely think the parasites have hung on.
But I would have never thought of that without reading about parasites on this forum.
I'm feeling better today- still slight pain in lymphs and kidneys- but mostly just exhausted.
Will go slower next time...thanks for all the responses
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I'm so sorry I missed your post Dbpei. No, not BW alone. What works for me is combining things (the A-P along with salt/c). I remember Gael saying she combined a couple of anti parasitic formulas (parastroy, etc.), but once she added in the salt/c, the worms began to exit. The same thing happened with me.
Once I added in the salt/c, then I had some worms activity. I think they hang on for dear life hoping it will stop, but they just can't take the combo with the salt/c added in.
Hang in there daynise. :)
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
How much salt/c was helpful? I've been doing 2-6g. I imagine the highest I would go is 10g in a day, but not for long. I've been on this for a month but don't see any baddies (maybe little ones?).
Posts: 131 | From Neptune, NJ | Registered: Oct 2012
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
The owner of the lymephotos website said it took 2 mos for some of the parasites to let go. Some have immediate expulsion of the "baddies"
I was on very strong antiparasitic herbs for 6 mos and didn't see anything until I added salt/c. If you are not on any antiparasitics, it might be a good idea to add something like Parastroy.
The combo of herbs and salt/c seems to be key. Just keep going because the salt/c also kills bb and other pathogens.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Hello. New to this board.Need some help.Long story short. Did the green black walnut,wormwood complex. Starting feeling better.but now my nervous system feels shot, tingling in extremities, lips, weird headache, quick sharp pains in different odd places and very dizzy to even walk. Anyone can help?
-------------------- Tracy Evans Posts: 1 | From IN - Indiana | Registered: Aug 2016
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
Hi tmcevans, welcome! Wow, this is an old thread (lol)!
Those are parasites giving you those pains in odd places. Weird headache is the toxins they release when they are dying. You need to take binders to get rid of the toxins. Also, coffee enemas work wonderfully. IMO the best. You will feel much better afterwards.
A few suggestions for binders would be bentonite clay, Detox 2, chlorella, takesumi.
PS, You should edit your post (pencil/pad) to remove your name (we don't use real names).
Also, here is a great parasite thread filled with info:
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I know that longer use of wormwood can affect kidneys and liver, i guess...
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