me
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posted
Does anyone use Venex cream? Does it help and what does it help with?
Anyone do bee venom injections? Has it helped?
As far as bee venom injections, what are reputable places from the US that sell them? Making the tinctures recommended by Dr. K would be too involved for me right now.
-------------------- Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice. Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015
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bluelyme
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Venex cream has been great for swollen lymph..it make skin red increasing circulation ..on neck actually make blood flow better to head ...
i got releif from drilling bone pain with venex cream ,so much i started with live stings .
micheal simics talked to me when i was trying to order it . I had to have doc send script .he abliged and sent when he does harvest ... i still have itbin the fridge ...the doc gave me procaine to mix with it and small insulin syringe (hard to find )
He said itbis stronger than regular stings ..it helps with inflammation but moreover it stuns kills ketes and apicomplexans ..see bvt thread
The cream has 1/3 of a sting per 1/2in of cream ..the venex 20 has like 280 stings per vial like a buck a sting .. and the ms folks say that when you adulturate the venom it loses some potentcy..(last year pricing)
saving mine for a rainy day (maybe monday) i have been doing live bees in the summer the venom is hottttt! Simics states that his venex is same potency all year long .do it me ...tell bf to grow a pair jk
venex is the world standard popularized by dr k ... i have seen pills and some others ..dancing acres has eyedrops i wanna try
so live bees may be cheaper may have varroa mite and the bee dies in giving life to you. .venex uses electroplate for venom harvest ...might be hard to sting back though..
.unless you have help...start with 3 then 5 7 and then 10 sting dose i have measurements somewhere pm or call if you get there me
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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me
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posted
Blue, Sorry, I'm confused.
1.What kind of injection do you recommend? 2. Can you point me to the site? 3.Is it easy to mix, just add one thing to the other?
I've been the customer of the year at my pharmacy and have a good relationship with my pharmacist, so I think my pharmacist would hook me up with insulin needles if I had a script. He would prolly order them for me. In fact, my pharmacist introduced me to a new pharm tech saying, this is ______, and you will know her very well quickly. Haha.
-------------------- Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice. Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015
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Brussels
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posted
You made me laugh!(customer of the year).
I pictured the situation, I guess in the end, we all end up with a favorite pharmacy... I'm sure they think we are mad, and profitable!
I get almost any product I want from my pharmacist too.
Should we laugh or cry??!
I used bee venom ointment i bought from dr K's shop long ago, when lyme was still active. It was not bad, but I did use many other essential oils too, rubbed, with good results.
I never bought it again (venex) though. I liked it, but the same way I liked essential oils.
Another thing I used even more, was Apisinum homeopathic (meaning, bee venom in homeopathy, to be taken under the tongue). I think it was an X5 dilution. It did work for different infections, like a boost.
I never did bee stings: I was happy with my Apisinum 'candies' and venex rubbed.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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bluelyme
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His product is venex 20 or venex forte ...its from apitronic services ..he wants take sure you have epipen and care of a doc ...the amount is so tiny it has to be mixed with procaine solution or saline ...and drawn with lil needle a put in bigger needle ...you can do it
the creme can be ordered without script from dancingbee acres ...it is a good test
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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susank
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Member # 22150
posted
I have researched this - dunno what to think.
Note that the BVT gurus/stingers - and others say the cream and injections help with symptoms only. Who knows. A few have written about success with the injections.
I think K's protocol written years ago. I've read where he eventually switched to using live bees. Also I think he is incorrect stating the numbing agent helps against A. shock. This protocol otherwise looks doable. Little needles - injecting painful areas etc.
As compared to (at least for me) - the real thing:
(Link won't work? Google youtube bee sting therapy for Lyme Tim Hayes - or Nancy).
The FB groups that follow the real sting protocol - Yikes - using acupuncture points along the spine. It looks cheaper to do but - again - Yikes. The swelling and the holes left behind? I'd have to be guaranteed a cure to do this to my spine. (but never say never).
"Me" I'd research this thoroughly. You really think you could do stinging this way?
Blue: you have used the injections? What body part/s? Have you done live stings? On the spine?
For arthritis etc I see where folks do injections/stings on the joints.
I might be brave enough to try the BV cream - maybe the injections - but live stings......doubtful.
I've taken a break from mHBOT - it's been physically difficult for me to do - but am resuming it.
I bought some Venex cream - want to put a dab on a test site - just to afraid to do it. I don't have an in-date EpiPen.
Plus - not sure interference BV cream and mHBot.
There will be times I cannot use my chamber - thinking to use the cream/injections at those times?
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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me
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Member # 45475
posted
Does the Venex cream work locally on areas, or does it contribute to overall improvement?
Brussels, glad I made you laugh. I went to the pharmacy the other day and said, hi, I'm ----, I should have a stack of prescriptions. Apparently I had met this pharm tech before but forgot. Anyways, when I said my name and I should have a stack of prescriptions she cracked up. Not giggled. Cracked up.
Bluelyme, thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
SusanK, I agree. I need to do more research. So much info out there but hard to get answers on how effective injections are. I don't mind stinging myself, but my BF is insanely terrified of stinging insects, so that isn't an option out of respect for him.
Any input as far as experiences with Venex cream and injections are appreciated.
Bluelyme, did you use the injections from simics?? Did it help?
-------------------- Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice. Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015
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susank
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"me" - do a search here about Venex - threads/posts by member Bejoy.
The LN link I provided above doesn't seem to work - but Bejoy's first thread about this is from 3/13/08.
I think there is localized as well as systemic effect/help with the cream.
Perhaps with the injections as well.
The BVT gurus/stingers are pretty adamant about using live bees - saying it's the only BVT effective against Lyme - as in treatment.
I've read where once the venom hits O2 it dries up. Anyway - the injection kits come with the BV powder and saline to reconstitute. (I think I would want to use Lidocaine as per Dr. K).
Look at the BV Solution kit. That's not a tincture.
Anyway the "stinging gurus" say some of the properties of the venom is lost when it's dried/put in powder for injections.
But......I think I read that one of them said the best medical grade BV powder is the stuff from Sweden - ie the above link.
I read where some folks have had success with the injections. I would much rather use tiny needles and inject places other than my spine.
I would appreciate relief from symptoms. Apparently this stuff is great for pain/inflammation - perhaps healing to damaged structures. Perhaps even very effective against Lyme.
I need some pain relief to be able to use my mHBOT chamber!! Oh - the irony. I know I have some structural damage that needs to be addressed. I'm afraid of doing more damage to myself getting in/out of my chamber and zipping.
Anyway.........I confess that today I caused the demise of a bee.
The gurus say that the venom dries when exposed to air. I was remembering - I have a little device to catch and release insects. I find an insect in my house - I catch it - take it outside for release. I have done this for bees.
So.....today I caught a bee with it. Wanted to see if I could get the bee to release venom w/o losing its stinger while in the "holder".
I was thinking......hmm - if some liquid could be expelled and immediately drawn up into a syringe.......the possibilities........
Yes I have a creative mind - what's left of it.
In the past some insects I have caught - and I thought including bees - left behind some liquid.
Worth a try. I could not tell with today's bee if it left me a gift - but I think ultimately it must have stung the holding device and lost its stinger. I released it - it flew away - but I later found it struggling on the ground. I feel so bad about that.
I still wonder - though - if there's any way to use a live bee - it's venom - to give as an injection. Without the bee losing it's stinger and dying.
To make the powder - it appears the manufacturers have the bees crawl on a glass plate - that does something to cause the bees to expel venom w/o harming the bees.
Possible to duplicate that at home - for injections? Doubt it..........
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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me
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Thank you so much for the detailed info, Susan K. Do you know anyone who has tried the Swiss version and do you know the reliability of it? As in are the ingredients for real and pure, etc?
-------------------- Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice. Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015
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susank
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I don't know anyone personally - but have read accounts on the FB BVT pages.
I can't find the one thread - where someone "in the know" had the BV tested - I think at U.Penn - and it tested very well.
Idea: Don't allergists use medical grade BV to test for allergies? Wonder what they use - where they buy it from????
Thought: the gurus/stingers say the live stings more potent/whatever/more of the good stuff - and the powdered/reconstituted injections less so. Wondering.....dumb thought probably - if the powder has half the Mellitin of a live sting - why not use twice the amount?
(Pardon - I think I took too much Mag. last night and feel a bit strange today - sleepy - goofy).
I apparently do have some brain cells working - because - I found the word - "milking". Can one "milk" venom from a bee?
Apparently - yes.
Google "milking bees for venom" uploaded by Kat Shiffler. Youtube. Says for topical use.......but.....if milked into something close to sterile with Lido or saline added - could make an injection??? Done immediately - before the venom dries in air? Safe? Stable? Could be done in your case away from your house/BF?
I am so intrigued by this. Gotta be a way - of course if were possible surely someone else would have thought of this/be doing it.
I believe in BVT like I believe in mHBOT. Making "holes" on my back/other body parts - from the stinger - couldn't do it.
Oh - the Swedish company apparently has testing results. I'll try to find that info. Would be nice to compare it to the BV company in Canada.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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susank
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I stumbled upon this rather interesting article.
Not that I would do this - at least not anytime soon......I find it fascinating that this could be possible.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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bluelyme
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Hi im back was tending to father and my hive ... susan you are right and creative ..however m.simics has a venom "milking "machine with glass plates ...it uses electricity to provoke the stinger to drop venom and then he scrapes and mixes with homeopathics ...
i have been doing live stings ..and it goes away in a few days but if you hit a vessel it will leave a little mark (not a hole ) my acupuncture points on my back are tattooed from 10 months but i am noticing i dont feel as bad ...i sting joints and muscle wasting sites ...
the doc said to do liver gb meridians on leg with needle but i have it in the fridge with the doxy i never took.. he said it is stronger than live stings . The cream is pretty safe but get a bottle of benadry*kids and tell your doc that neighbor got bees and you need a epi pen.
my als friend said live bees ..and ms people say alcohol nullifies the effect ..and not sure if procaine has that in mix The creme worked so good for joint pain .i knew i needed to step it up...
tatoo me up if it cures me ..or even helps ..and it has ..it kept my temp up has helped joint pain a lot ..depression gone on sting days .
so my gf who is also scared of bees helped me with the math...if by planting flowers and having a hive its like 30000 bees that exist because of my efforts ...
and 30-40 bees a week for 2-3yrs is like 5000 bees that gave there life for me to live ...and is electrocuting them worse ?
Morals aside eva sapi was working with elle lobel to study bee venom and lyme and it works ...i joke with my buddy about mixing it with rattler venom ..and scorpion...i am working on getting some of each of that ..little harder than bees
There is evidence that scopion venom is effective in treating brain cancer ..and as we know from alan macdonald glial carcinomas can be linked to spirocheteal infections
so 3 yrs of pain or more and more of abx .i think herbs and whatever modalities are needed ..i am so curious about mhbot ..dont really have the room and not sure my ears could hang with pressure ...so for now i sting !
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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Jordana
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I picked live bees because the above conversation seems so complicated to me. In order to get the stuff you need help, like with whoever it is that knows how to put the mixture together and then inject yourself with needles; not to mention I have heard that live bee venom is what works to kill Lyme ( not necessarily for arthritis pain relief.)
I've had some fascinating experiences on this protocol and I herx like hell. But it takes a lot of faith. If you're going to do bee venom therapy right you can't do abx, which means that you're betting on some crazy bee people instead of "science" which has yet to cure anyone. Tough call.
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