posted
Could someone please explain the difference to me? I am tested positive for Lyme's disease and we had my husband tested. He has two bands positive but only on the IgG, not the IgM.
I have no idea what the differences mean.
Thank you!
Posts: 74 | From over here | Registered: Mar 2017
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Lyme does not follow the rules that apply to other diseases. With other diseases, one means early infection and the other means later infection.
But, with lyme, there is basically no difference between IgG and IgM. If you have any positives on lyme specific bands on either one, it indicates lyme.
Usually, the test marks the lyme-specific bands with an asterisk or some other way.
Or, you can check Burrascano and other lyme sites for the lyme-specific bands.
"The 18KD, 23-25KD (Osp C), 31KD (Osp A), 34KD (Osp B), 37KD, 39KD, 83KD and the 93KD bands are the species-specific ones, but appear later or may not appear at all. You should see at least the 41KD and one of the specific bands. 55KD, 60KD, 66KD, and 73KD are nonspecific and nondiagnostic." (p. 7)
Notice that Burrascano doesn't even mention if it should be IgG or IgM bands. That's because it doesn't matter. All that matters is that the positive is on a band that means lyme disease.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
While what TF says is true, it doesn't mean you have Lyme disease necessarily. That needs to be done by a skilled clinician literate in Lyme disease.
Posts: 360 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2012
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"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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The interesting thing is he is reactive in 41KD (which we both are and I know that is a huge indicator), and he is reactive in 30KD. I haven't seen 30KD on any of the papers I have.
He has literally zero symptoms. We only had him tested because of me being positive. We went through different symptoms and he doesn't have any on the list. It is just very odd! Posts: 74 | From over here | Registered: Mar 2017
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posted
Thanks Sixgoofykids. Our thoughts were whether or not to worry about treating. I would guess he was in some sort of remission (as 'cured' may be too strong of a word). So I am interested in seeing whether our doctor will want treatment?
Posts: 74 | From over here | Registered: Mar 2017
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Since I was undiagnosed for at least 10 years while married, I had my lyme doc test my husband through Igenex. He was only positive on band 41. The doc said he was fine. (Hubby has had gum infection in the past and evidently this can account for band 41. 41 is not specific to lyme)
My husband also had no symptoms. To this day he still does not have any lyme symptoms. So, even 13 years after being tested by Igenex, he is fine.
I personally would not treat a person who has no symptoms. I heard Dr. J (world famous pediatric lyme doc) say that he would not treat any child who does not have symptoms regardless of how positive their lyme test is. He says, "Leave well enough alone."
Another top notch lyme doc also won't treat children with no symptoms regardless of their lyme test results. She said she likes to wait and see if the child's immune system can successfully fight off the infection on its own. So, they monitor the child only.
So, that is how I feel about treatment also.
Regarding band 30, I found this discussion by Dr. C:
"In my clinical experience, if a patient has symptoms suspicious for borreliosis, and has one or more of the following bands, there is a very high probability the patient has borreliosis.
These bands are 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39, 41, 83, and 93.
[---- from DR C's update from 2005 --- ----The significant antibodies, in my opinion, are the 18, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 39, 58, 66 and 93.----]
This is true regardless of whether it is IgG or IgM.. But again, there is no universal agreement on the significance of these bands. Betina Wilska, M.D. from Germany is one of the world's experts on outer surface protein A (31 kDa).
At the international borreliosis conference in Vancouver, British Columbia, I asked her personally about the 30 kDa band. She told me it was the same as the 31 kDa band (osp A).
When you have the opportunity to talk to borreliosis experts, this helps in assigning significance to findings, on an imperfect test. As a medical doctor, I am stating all of this with no axe to grind, no professorship to protect, and no preset opinions. Patients, personal research, and conferences have helped me interpret the borreliosis medical literature in regard to testing.
Nobody would like to have available a bullet-proof, 100% reliable Lyme borreliosis test more than I would. But we must use what is currently available. I always welcome second opinions."
This quote comes from a post kept at the top of Medical Questions. The link is:
You can find it by clicking on "Important info on lyme and cos" and then on "Dr. C's explanation of the Western Blot."
As Dr. C says, IF THE PATIENT HAS SYMPTOMS OF LYME and also has the following test results..... So, he also requires symptoms before he will diagnose a person with lyme.
As six said, it could be that your hubby has successfully fought off the disease. A positive just means that you were exposed to lyme in the past, so you have antibodies to lyme circulating in your blood currently.
My lyme test is still positive to this day and I haven't had lyme for 12 years (except for a new bite 9 years ago treated for 30 days). I have not had any lyme symptoms for over 12 years.
So, the antibodies will continue to give a person positive bands for many years and sometimes for the rest of their lives. The test results do NOT mean that the person has any symptoms of lyme. I certainly don't.
You will have to decide what to do if your doctor recommends treatment for your husband.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
TF I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed message for me in regards to my comment.
That is where we were heading, for no treatment since there were no symptoms. But we were not sure of protocol since this is all very new for me. I was only diagnosed a month ago.
Thanks for the information on band 30...there is so much stuff out there I don't know where to look or even what is correct or what information just follows the CDC, which we don't want. Posts: 74 | From over here | Registered: Mar 2017
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