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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » gwb Hansa Center *****Newest Update ****** (Page 1)

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Author Topic: gwb Hansa Center *****Newest Update ******
gwb
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Well, as I mentioned a few days ago I would be going to a clinic in KS for lyme treatment. I also mentioned that I would be starting a thread sharing some of my experiences at the clinic while I'm here this week. Lyme member, ott70, suggested I do this. So here I begin...

I'm pretty tired tonight so I will just give you a brief summary of my first two days here and then tomorrow try to add a few more details. My wife, daisyrlb (she's also an occasional poster here too), is helping me to write some of this and will probably be adding more details about it on her own posts.

I had all intentions of posting from Day 1 of my treatment at the clinic; but, by the end of the first day my mind was like--where do I even begin? How can I even articulate my experience? After "digesting" my experience from Day 1 and now Day 2, I believe I can more adequately express what has gone on so far.

First of all, you need to know that this clinic is not a Lyme Disease clinic only. Even though Dr. J has written a book on Lyme disease, and has a protocol for Lyme Disease, he treats people for a myriad of diseases, Lyme Disease just happens to be one.

Dr. J is not the only doctor in the clinic that treats patients. There are two other doctors in his clinic. I am being treated by both Dr. J and the other male doctor. Of course, they also have a staff of four or more people who assist in the various treatments that I'm having.

It has been an eye-opening being here because of 1) "philosophy" (for lack of a better word). I am still "digesting" the unique 2) testing procedures, 3) the findings (especially in light of what I already know about my physical issues), as well as the 4) treatments. I will do my best to explain these four areas and my day to day experience.

Day 1 - Upon arriving to the clinic I was given two tests (different than any I have ever had and I've had lots). I was skeptical before I even arrived.

I am a very curious person and asked lots of questions and continue to do so. Everyone is very friendly, eager to answer my questions, eager to help in any way they can--whether it be the receptionist at the front desk, the people doing the testing or the person giving the treatments. Everyone is positive. The atmosphere is peaceful.

The first test they gave me is called Computerized Regulation Thermography (CRT). The other BioResonance Scanning (BRS). You can go online and read about both of them.

After having the CRT (taking body temperature) explained to me and having it done on me and getting the results explained to me it made sense. The BRS does not make sense to me. It's similar to ART, yet different. Yet, surprising, the results of the BRS were "right on" because so much of what the doctor was saying was "wrong" with my body was stuff that he didn't know about but I did.

It amazes me and my mind still does not fully comprehend it. It I guess for now that is all I can say other than--as the time goes by "the proof will be in the pudding" as the saying goes. (In the next few days, I will share examples of the BRS being "right on" but for now I want to move on.)

I came to the Clinic because of good reports I have read from other Lyme patients (some on Lyme boards other via PM and emails). I received both positive and negative feedback, but mostly positive. One person told me she purchased Dr. J's book, followed the protocol and was symptom free in 8 months. This person did not even go to the Center.

Some of you have read my posts since I've been posting (since 2005). I have steadily gone down hill, and in the last six months, down hill drastically as some of you know. It's the lowest I've ever been with this disease, not only physically, but mentally and emotionally as well.

A year ago I probably would not have gone to a clinic like this, but after getting feedback from several people and doing an internet search, I decided, as sick as I am, what do I have to lose? It's a gamble being here, it's very expensive and there's no guarantee that Dr. J's protocol will get me well.

But nothing I've done up to this point has gotten me well. I cannot tolerate abx anymore, and the fact that this clinic uses a holistic approach to treatment is what appealed to me. I was actually looking into three herbal protocols, and in fact, I started a thread here asking people to give me their feedback on Zhang, Buhner and Cowden.

Someone on another forum asked me if I had considered Dr. J's protocol. I hadn't even heard of it in all the five years I've been on lymenet. That's how I became interested in it and what prompted me to investigate it.

Anyway, The first half of the day was spent doing the CRT and BRS testing. The CRT was done by a clinician. The first day I was seen Dr. J's "team" doctor. He did the BRS testing. He then shared the results of both the CRT and the BRS. In the mean time, he continued with the BRS testing narrowing down the top 5 areas of greatest concern for my body. Then he mixed several homeopathic tinctures plus gave me two dietary supplements. I started them, right then and there in his office.

The doctor used the BRS testing on all of my supplements, vitamins, etc. that I've been taking, and said the results showed only one of those things was even helping me, and to continue with that one. I had two full bags of stuff--hundreds of dollars of vitamins and supplements! (Again, this part of the BRS testing--on my stuff--I'll comment on after I "digest" it more.)

I'm very tired and my mind is going out on me, but let me just say this, the past couple of days I have been feeling a little bit better and have had a little bit more energy than usual. However, I have days like this on occasion, so whether or not I've just had a couple of good days or the treatment is helping me, I cannot honestly say. Time will tell.

I look forward to sharing with you tomorrow about the different treatments I had. One was ion-cleanse foot detoxing--amazing the gunk that came out of me! The other treatment was lymph drainage therapy mixed with rife and a couple of other things that I can't remember right now.

The other was called Lux electronic gem treatment. They put an infrared mat on it for me to lay on. Tomorrow will be some additional treatments and the doctor will focus on my scars from surgery I had in 1994. He believes that some of my abdominal pain is coming from that, so that will be interesting to see how the treatment helps--or not???

Sorry this is so long and maybe not as clear or detailed as you would have liked. My mind is fried right now and I need to get some rest. Will post some more tomorrow and will be glad to answer any questions you have about my treatment tomorrow as well.

For now I say goodnight and look forward to sharing more with you tomorrow.

Gary

P.S. For those of you who believe in prayer--please keep me in your prayers. Thanks!

[ 03-07-2010, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: gwb ]

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daisyrlb
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Gary: I am so glad to be here with you and see first hand what all is happening in this "adventure".

You did a great job on your post above, sharing your experience so far. True--time will tell.

You got my prayers, and I know so many other people are praying, too.

ILY,
daisyrlb/Rhonda

PS: Friends, thank you for posting and helping my husband through the years on this Lyme journey. And thank you for your prayers then and now.

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CD57
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wow keep us posted. I have heard of Dr J but dont know anyone who did his stuff. Why dont we hear more about it?
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Topaz
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Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.

It sounds like you are in good hands, Gary. Hopefully this will put you on the road to recovery.

Good thoughts being sent your way.

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gwb
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I wanted to add another important point about Dr. J and his associate doctors. None of them are MD's. They are all DC's but have specialized training similar (but differently) to those who treat as Dr. K does using ART, muscle testing, etc.

Here's a little bio on Dr. J. from his website:

"Dr. J BS, DC, is a published author and is nationally recognized as a leader in Biological Medicine and the treatment of chronic illness. Graduating with a Bachelor's degree in Nutrition with honors, he received his doctorate at Cleveland Chiropractic College-KC.

Post Graduate studies have taken him far and wide, studying natural and anthroposophical medicine in Germany and Biological Medicine with the world-renowned Paracelsus Klinic of Switzerland, with later studies providing certification in Botanical Medicine through the University of Colorado, School of Pharmacy.

Dr. J is also the developer of the diagnostic and treatment technique Bio-Resonance Scanning and a whole new concept in medicine called Circuit Healing.

Dr. J has personally developed over 30 novel natural medicines to date. As past president of the American Medical Academy of Thermodiagnostics, he is one of the most experienced doctors in the U.S.A. in one of the latest FDA approved adjunctive diagnostic tests, Computerized Regulation Thermodiagnostics.

Dr. J is presently writing more books and developing a Bio-Resonance Scanning training program for doctors."

I wanted to bring this up so that no one was under the impression that this is a medical clinic--it is not. They are specialists in their chosen field, but I didn't want to leave anyone with the impression that this is a medical facility and felt it was important to clarify this.

If you haven't figured out who this doctor is or where his clinic is (I know most of you have) from doing a google search, feel free to pm me and i will send you a link.

Today begins day three of treatment. I'm hopeful, apprehensive, curious, and still a bit skeptical. But the people in the office are all very pleasant and have helped to make my experience there a positive one so far.

Topaz--thanks for sending me good thoughts. I receive them! : )

Gary

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steelbone
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Good stuff gary

Sure hope all goes well

I will be interested to see how you like the ST-8 and the vibe.

Would love to see the new building- Last april when i went they where still in the old building

Good luck..Wish you all the best

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
[email protected]

The harder you work the luckier you get!

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massman
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Sounds pretty radical, DCs instead of
[bow] MDs.
But wait...DCs go to Chiro college longer than MDs go to med school [Cool]

Looking forward to reading upcoming posts.

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ott70
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Good post, Gary. Thanks for taking my suggestion and finding the time to post about your experiences, positive or negative -- although, I pray they are all positive for you.

Your experiences so far sound like mine the first time I was out there. And I believe I was still feeling skeptic about some stuff on day 3. Even now, I have trouble wrapping my mind around the Lux machine.

I think most importantly is you are in a place where people are positive and want to help you. It is expensive, but I really believe they are not trying to bilk you out of money. And while they are DC's by profession, I still found Dr. J to be one of the most knowledgeable doctors about the human body that I have met.

It can be argued how much medical training a DC gets compared to an MD, but a DC still have to go through some fairly extensive training to become one. The other good thing with Dr. J is he has pursued other training in the natural field, while it seems a lot of MD's are content with their degree once they get it. Thus, the narrow-mindedness of the MD community on the subject of chronic Lyme.

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ott70
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quote:
Originally posted by CD57:
wow keep us posted. I have heard of Dr J but dont know anyone who did his stuff. Why dont we hear more about it?

I think because they publicize mainly by word of mouth. They have only recently started promoting the clinic in the Wichita area after being in business for 10 years.

As Gary notes, the clinic is not a "medical clinic" filled with blood testing and MRI's and CAT scans and MD's. It is a naturopathic clinic with three DC's and staff and some unconventional testing methods, at least by US standards.

From what I have seen on the web, it appears that Dr. J's clinic took some bashing in the beginning from some people, probably because of the unusual testing methods. Maybe it took them a little while to get past the early bad publicity.

Everyone that goes there is not going to like the experience. Not any different than going to a doctor's office. Some people will like the doctor and some won't. I can guarantee that people who do go to the Hansa Clinic and don't enjoy their visit, it is not going to be from the doctors and staff being rude and abrupt with the patient.

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feelfit
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Best Gary! Wishing you success on your 'journey' you'll be in my thougths....

Feelfit

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Lymetoo
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Keep on keepin' on!! [hi]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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ott70
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I'll also throw in that while the Hansa Clinic may seem a little unique, I believe there is a joint out in Arizona that does similar treatments. I think it's called the Pine Tree or Pine Creek Clinic. I've heard good stuff about that clinic also, although we all need to consider there is no "magic bullet" cure out there for us.

And if you look at Dr. J's credentials, going out and studying at the Paracelsus Klinik in Switzerland is not too shabby. I believe that is one of the highly regarded naturopathic clinics in the world. I think it's where Cher went to get treated for her chronic EBV a few years back.

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seekhelp
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is there an approximate cost per day for treatment there? Just curious. I'm guessing it varies by person.
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steelbone
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700-900 per day
I went last april and it seemed much closer to 700 if not a bit lower

http://hansacenter.blogspot.com/2008/12/frequently-asked-quesitons-about-our.html

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
[email protected]

The harder you work the luckier you get!

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MazzyStar
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seekhelp - every day the price is different...the first day usually the most expensive with the testing.

Gary, I hope you got my message...I called the center to leave you a message of encouragement. I know it can be very scary putting your trust and last hope into someone or something.
Just let go and see where it takes you. Sending you lots of prayers.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Ehrlichia


www.mommalyme.com

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txgirl09
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Gary,

Of course you are still in my prayers. I love hearing your feedback so keep us posted!

txgirl

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ott70
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Pricing does vary per day depending on supplements and treatments. The first day is the most expensive generally and usually ends up being around $1000. After that, I was averaging maybe around $500 a day for my protocol.

When all said and done for me -- emphasis on "for me" -- the two week cost was around $5000. I would have to go back and look at my bills to be more exact.

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DaveNJ
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Gary,

thank you for the post. iam really curious how this progresses. Sending prayers.

Keep the Faith,

Dave

--------------------
On my journey to wellness - One day at a time.

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gwb
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We're on a short lunch break right now. My wife and I are enjoying the feedback we're getting here from all of you.

I'm looking forward to answering all of your questions when we get back to our hotel tonight. So much to share with you. My mind is still spinning from all of this. It's just so hard for me to comprehend it all. This will be brief so bear with me until tonight.

This is my third day of feeling "good". I usually only feel good one day a week, and if I'm fortunate maybe two days a week, and that only lasts a few hours. But so far I've had three fairly good days. I'm liking that. : )

I would say I'm *feeling* (not necessarily recovering) maybe forty to fifty percent better now prior to treatment, but to me it *feels* like almost 100% even though it isn't. The main improvements so far is more energy and less abdominal pain. Also, I've got some appetite now and far less nausea.

My mind is a bit more clear too but not a whole lot. It takes time and I don't expect to get 100% well in the two weeks I'm here. I've had this disease for 15 years so it will take some time.
Will it last, will I continue to improve, that's the big question that will be answered in time.

Brandimc, yes, I did get your very encouraging message from the clinic. Thank you so much. We haven't had a chance to return your call yet. I know you said it wasn't necessary but we want to call you and talk with you a bit. You've been so encouraging, thank you.

Ott, thanks for all of your encouragement too and helping me to understand what to expect when I came here. It really helped knowing that. Will be in touch with you more later.

To EVERYONE of you, thanks a million for your encouragement and support. It really blesses Rhonda and me. I will respond to each one of you tonight when we sit down to unwind at the hotel.

Gotta get back to the clinic now!

Gary

[ 01-13-2010, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: gwb ]

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ott70
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Just don't use up that new found energy by replying to all of us!! [Smile]

Glad to hear that things are at least keeping you interested and hopeful. Keep after it!

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daisyrlb
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Good Evening Friends:

Just watching all the treatments Gary had today wore me out! Smile. His last treatment was the Infrared Sauna--and the temperature and the length of time he was in it--was equal to running ten miles. So tonight he is pretty tired.

He told me that he may post later tonight, however he said he just might wait until tomorrow.

His spirits are good and he is looking forward to going to the clinic tomorrow. He is a very curious kind-of-a-guy (as you've probably noticed) and he asks the doctors lots of questions.

Both of his doctors WELCOME questions! That in itself is pretty amazing. (From past experience his doctors have not always, make that not usually, welcomed his questions.) The doctors at the clinic are very patient, listen to everything he says, and answer all of his questions. That's wonderful.

I'll try to remember all of his treatments today, but I'll probably forget something. He had a lot of detoxing going on today.

His day started with an IonCleanse Foot Bath drawing out "gunk". You can actually see "gunk" floating in the water. The first two days there was lots and lots of stuff. Today there was still a lot of stuff but less than the Monday and Tuesday. It's neat that everyone gets so excited in the office to see this stuff coming out. Yesterday there was something that looked like a parasite and everyone in the office gathered round and it was like "yahoo"!

After that he sat in a chair with the ST-8 Lymphatic Drainage Machine focused on his neck and sinus lymph system. (You can read specifically about what this machine does online.) It does four specific things in cleaning out the Lymphs, one of those four things is that Rife frequencies kill pathological microbes and restore health and energy to the tissues.

He then met with his doctor, had his questions answered, then the doctor did some more of the BRS testing. After that the doctor continued with treatments as well as added more homeopathic and herbal formulas. Some of those treatments included a laser treatment to the lower intestines, I think another called myofascial release therapy, in addition he used essential oils on various parts of Gary's body. (As time goes on Gary will share more about the treatments, what they are and the results.)

After the time with the doctor we went to lunch.

We came back after lunch and Gary laid on the Infrared Mat while he was having Lux Electronic Gem Treatment that focused on his heart, liver and spleen (you can probably read about that online too).

After that he went in the Infrared Sauna. That ended the day.

We came back to the hotel and both of us rested for an hour. Then it was off to Starbucks. He had a green tea and I had a latte. It was nice just to chat and take it easy.

We are back in the hotel room after picking up dinner to-go and stopping by Target for some items we needed.

I am pleasantly surprised how well he is doing. I am cautiously optimistic.

Thank you all for your interest, support, positive vibes and prayers.

May you be filled with hope more and more, just like we are! It's great to have hope again!

Rhonda/daisyrlb

PS: I'm sure I've not included all of the treatments, more on that later.

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seekhelp
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Thanks for the updates. Very interesting. I hope he sees continued improvements!!
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ott70
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Having been there twice, I can picture fairly well what he is going through for treatments and the positive atmosphere around the clinic. Makes me happy inside just thinking about it. I'm glad that you both feel that there is some hope to come of this.

Prayers and well wishes!

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steelbone
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This is all great stuff.

Is he using the Vibe?

Praying for you [Smile]

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
[email protected]

The harder you work the luckier you get!

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Topaz
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Wow, the foot bath sounds amazing. I've often seen those foot detox pads and wondered if I should try some. I realize it's not the same, but similar idea.

Look forward to hearing more about your progress, Gary!

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gwb
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This morning before I go to the clinic I wanted to give you a little update.

Yesterday the last thing they had me do was sit in the infrared sauna for 30 minutes. I haven't sweated like that in years! The temp was about 125 degrees which was hot but no intolerable.

After I got out of the sauna I felt exhausted. They explained that the effects of sitting in the sauna that long will make you feel as if you've just finished a ten mile jog. Whew, felt more like twenty. But it was great getting all that poison out of my body.

I also had the ST-8 Lymphatic drainage therapy for about a half hour. They focused on my sinuses because right now I have a sinus infection so they wanted to work on that.

They started me off in the morning with the IonCleanse Foot bath for thirty minutes. Still more gunk came pouring out of me. It's an amazing sight to behold to see so much toxins and poisons coming out of your feet of all places.

The staff is so funny because when they come in to look at the gunk before they pour it in the drain they get all giddy about it and say, "wow, this is awesome", "look at this..." etc. They're like kids opening gifts on Christmas. It's funny to see how excited they get about seeing people's disgusting looking gunk in the foot buckets. YUK!

The Lux Gemstone treatment is nice. You actually sit on heated gem stones for 30-40 minutes and listen to peaceful music during that time. Very relaxing.

The doctor gave me some some more BRS testing and added some more homeopathy. You can read daisyrlb's post above for more details on this.

Yesterday I was feeling pretty good during lunch time and I actually had a pretty good appetite. We went to Chipotle for lunch, unfortunately I ate too much.

I forgot how much my stomach had shrunk in the past few months since losing 75 pounds. I was miserable and paid the price for that. Lesson learned!

Yesterday was a good day overall, however, last night I was not feeling too great. Maybe the stirring up of the toxins from the infrared sauna caused me to have a herx or maybe it was something else, don't know.

They try to do everything to keep the herx level down as it is their belief that you don't need to have hard herxes to get well with the appropriate treatment. They told me I should not herx from the sauna but I believe I did herx, plus having all those toxins stirred up I'm sure had an effect on me.

Some of the homeopathic tinctures and herbal formulas I'm taking cause me to have loud head noises. I don't know what's causing it but the doctor is keeping notes on it and may make adjustments on what I'm taking later on.

The hardest part for me to accept is what's called the Bio-Resonance Scanning procedure. The doctor has some NASA invented round shape glass gizmo that is attached to his belt. He rubs this thing while doing some weird hand signals over my body. This is how my body "speaks to him".

I'm not saying I don't believe it, but this is the part of the whole treatment plan that I'm most skeptical of. The thing is, you really got to put your confidence in what he's doing because this is how he determines which herbal formulas and homeopathic tinctures he's going to treat me with.

I really have to trust that he's "hearing" correctly from my body or else he's going to give me stuff that's of no value to me. I admit this is the most difficult part of the whole process, but it's probably the most important part too.

I'm taking two tinctures and one herbal formula (taste pretty bad) and two supplements. Some of this is for my stomach, adrenal gland, liver and spleen support. I forget what all everything does but when I have more time I will go in more details about that.

For now I need to eat breakfast and get ready to go the clinic in 45 minutes. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I will try to respond more to everyone's posts and questions later on.

I will answer the question about cost. It will run you at minimum of $500 a day. Realistically, it looks like it's going to average out to be about $700.00 a day or a little bit less. Not cheap, but if it helps me to get my health back, it's priceless.

More to come later. Thanks again for all your well wishes and prayers.

Gary

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seibertneurolyme
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Oh no Gary -- Sorry I didn't answer your email sooner. I hope your experience is better than hubby's was. To be honest going to see Dr J was probably one of the costliest treatment mistakes we have made.

Hubby had had no antibiotics prior to the treatment at the J clinic. We stuck it out for about 6 weeks or so back in 2002 when the temps were in the 90's and over 100 many days that year. Hubby ended up being admitted to the ER 4 or 5 times I think, in the hospital 2 times in Wichita and the psych ward one time. We called the doc and he did see hubby several times on weekends on an emergency basis.

We finally left to go to see an ID doc at KU in Kansas City. Hubby ended up being admitted to the hospital there where he was unconscious for 15 hours one day with encephalopathy. What had previously been fainting spells progressed to what I thought were actual seizures during the time we were in Kansas.

I do think the Borrelogen worked somewhat, maybe even too well. Hubby did get a positive PCR test for Lyme during this time from IGeneX. The doc had very little experience treating neurological Lyme at that time.

Haven't read everything you posted yet, but from what I have read the doc has not changed his treatments much over the years. Hubby did the ionic footbaths, the thermography scans, chiropractic adjustments, the chi machine etc etc.

Hubby had previously done all of the same detox things with other docs. The difference with this doc was he wanted hubby to stop all supplements and to take his Lyme formulas -- the Borrelogen and others plus various homeopathic things. The homepathic things such as cannabis all backfired and made a bad situation worse.

I sincerely hope you get some benefit from your clinic experiences. I know everyone is different and the fact that you have had some previous treatment may decrease the odds of a severe negative reaction.

Have been offline for a couple of weeks and just now catching up on my emails and reading. Will be in touch.

Bea Seibert

Editing to add -- Hubby has had other docs tell him he was allergic to his supplements. All I know is that every time we have stopped supplements for either a test or because he was in the hospital he got much sicker. He has had many nutritional tests which prove he needs extra antioxidants and supplements to improve his methylation cycle.

One doc hubby saw a long time ago told him to be skeptical of docs who used the terms always and never. And so I have learned to question everything a doc says and then use my own judgement on whether to follow their advice.

But back then we did stop the supplements as suggested.

[ 01-14-2010, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: seibertneurolyme ]

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seibertneurolyme
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Gary,

One other thing -- the third factor which finally put hubby over the edge was the addition of Wobenzyme to his treatments. Doc J had him take 11 pills 2 times per day -- that only lasted for about a day and a half before the final hospitalization in Kansas City.

With no prior antibiotics the addition of this enzyme for hypercoagulation at such high initial doses was just too much for hubby.

Whatever supplements and herbals the doc has you take, I would be very cautious as to starting doses and not add too many things at once. We have had this lesson reinforced several times over the years whenever we get in a hurry to just get over this illness already.

Bea Seibert

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seekhelp
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22 pills a day of that? OMG!!
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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by steelbone:
Good stuff gary

Sure hope all goes well

I will be interested to see how you like the ST-8 and the vibe.

Would love to see the new building- Last april when i went they where still in the old building

Good luck..Wish you all the best

steelebone, I like the ST-8 very much. Yesterday they focused on my sinuses because I have a sinus infection. It's much better today.

They have used the vibe on me two times so far. Interesting, not sure what to make of it yet. As I get more treatments with it I'll let you know more what I think about it.

The building is wonderful. They have an upstairs will complete for more treatments too when the time comes. I know they plan to get into colonic irrigation and other treatments as they continue to grow.

The building is so peaceful and very a very relaxin environment. The staff is superb, very helpful, friendly and do everything they can to make your treatments stress free.

steelbone, since you were treated there, how did it go for you? Are you better now? Are you still being treated by Dr. J or you on some other protocol?

Gary

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steelbone
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I had no improvement Gary- But Dr J determined that my two root canals where harbouring the bacteria so when i got home i had them pulled.

The dentist said he was right about that. Lot of bacteria in my root canals. So i;m not sure he could have got me well with my mouth a mess.

also had 7 filling replaced...

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
[email protected]

The harder you work the luckier you get!

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by feelfit:
Best Gary! Wishing you success on your 'journey' you'll be in my thougths....

Feelfit

Feelfit, thanks for you keeping me in your thoughts and wishing me well. I appreciate it!

Gary

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Keep on keepin' on!! [hi]

Yep, that's all we can do--keep on keeping on! [Smile]
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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by steelbone:
I had no improvement Gary- But Dr J determined that my two root canals where harbouring the bacteria so when i got home i had them pulled.

The dentist said he was right about that. Lot of bacteria in my root canals. So i;m not sure he could have got me well with my mouth a mess.

also had 7 filling replaced...

Yes, now I remember you mentioned that before. My lyme brain had forgotten about this.

Are you doing better with lyme now? Are you still getting treatment, if so, what?

Gary

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by txgirl09:
Gary,

Of course you are still in my prayers. I love hearing your feedback so keep us posted!

txgirl

txgirl, thanks for your prayers. Means a lot to me and encourages me to know that so many people are praying. Will continue to keep everyone posted as I am able.

Gary

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by Topaz:
Wow, the foot bath sounds amazing. I've often seen those foot detox pads and wondered if I should try some. I realize it's not the same, but similar idea.

Look forward to hearing more about your progress, Gary!

I don't think the food pads are very effective at all. If you do a google search you'll find lots of negative information on them. Maybe it's gets some toxins out but not enough to make a difference.

I can't say that foot detox is a scientific proven method of removing toxins. There's obviously some controversy about this.

This is all new to me, so I'm still trying to comprehend it all. All I know is, when I get these foot cleanses the gunk that comes out of me is amazing (and disgusting to say the least).

Here's some links that might interest you about this and help you (and me) to understand how and why it supposedly works.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Try-an-Ionic-Foot-Bath-to-Detox-and-Cleanse-the-Body&id=113603

http://www.squidoo.com/ionic-foot-bath-benefits

You can also find information that say they are worthless. Best to research it online and come to your own conclusions.

Will try to post more tomorrow. It's late and I'm very tired and ready for bed.

Good night!

Gary

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ott70
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It's unfortunate to read about Bea's experience with Dr. J. Maybe one positive way to look at it is if all of his patients had similar miserable experiences, then he would no longer be in business.

I hope it keeps going well for you, Gary, and keeping you in my thoughts.

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ott70
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quote:
Originally posted by gwb:
This is all new to me, so I'm still trying to comprehend it all. All I know is, when I get these foot cleanses the gunk that comes out of me is amazing (and disgusting to say the least).

Here's some links that might interest you about this and help you (and me) to understand how and why it supposedly works.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Try-an-Ionic-Foot-Bath-to-Detox-and-Cleanse-the-Body&id=113603

http://www.squidoo.com/ionic-foot-bath-benefits

You can also find information that say they are worthless. Best to research it online and come to your own conclusions.

There are YouTube videos regarding the footbaths also. A lot of the videos are meant to debunk it.

My experience after using the footbath at his clinic for two weeks was I had a lot more gunk in the water in the beginning than at the end. The same tap water out of the same faucet was being used, so I was adding something extra to the water.

I also used the IonCleanse on my arms and I felt like crud that evening. My thought was toxins really stirred up from doing it on my arms versus the feet.

This is the company that Dr. J uses for the foot bath and it's supposedly the best company for it.
http://www.amajordifference.com/

One thing that Dr. J does go out of his way to do is use high-end equipment for his detox processes. For what research I did do on the Internet, while I was still skeptical during my treatment, it seems that the devices that the Hansa Center uses is top of the line stuff.

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Topaz
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Thanks for the input on the foot baths.

Have a great day, Gary! Still sending those healing thoughts your way...

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by seibertneurolyme:
Gary,

One other thing -- the third factor which finally put hubby over the edge was the addition of Wobenzyme to his treatments. Doc J had him take 11 pills 2 times per day -- that only lasted for about a day and a half before the final hospitalization in Kansas City.

With no prior antibiotics the addition of this enzyme for hypercoagulation at such high initial doses was just too much for hubby.

Whatever supplements and herbals the doc has you take, I would be very cautious as to starting doses and not add too many things at once. We have had this lesson reinforced several times over the years whenever we get in a hurry to just get over this illness already.

Bea Seibert

Bea, your husband has gone through so much. You are one amazing woman and I'm always inspired and amazed at how you continue to take such good care of your husband and constantly keep doing research to find ways to get your husband well. Your husband is blessed to have you as his wife.

You mentioned in a pm awhile back to me that your husband didn't do well on Dr J's protocol. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for him. I appreciate you cautioning me about taking too many things at once.

Dr. J has only given my two supplements and three homeopathy and herbal remedies at this point. I have asked him to give me a couple of the popular ones that I've read about that some of his Lyme patients talked so positive about. He said my body isn't ready for those yet and we will have to wait and see if and when my body is ready for it.

He did take me off of all of the supplements I was on which I admit was not easy for me to do. The only one he said my body was responding to was my multivitamin which is "Nature's Way Alive!" He didn't attempt to sell me his brand as he said my body was reacting positive to this one.

I really challenged him on taking me off my my supplements and explained how this disease needs all of these supplements to help build my immune system and fight this disease. He asked me if I was getting better or worse in the past six months? I told him I've never felt worse.

He went on to explain more why he was taking me off the vitamins and supplements but also explained that as time goes on with the treatment we will see which of the vitamins and supplements my body responds to and put me back on them.

He explained that my body simply isn't absorbing the majority of the supplements I was taking and it was forcing my body to work hard to try to digest them and not allowing my body to fight this disease naturally.

His goal with his homeopathic tinctures and herbals is to get the body's immune system to work on it's own and fight the disease as it is naturally meant to fight it. Yes, vitamins and supplements are all good, but they have to be given when the body can absorb them and utilize them effectively otherwise they they do you very little good.

I have a hard time with this concept, I admit it. I have to trust that when he does BRS on me that he is getting the right communications from my body and that it's telling him what I need (or don't need). It's not an easy approach for me to adjust to because of the mind set that I have.

Six months ago I would have never gone to a clinic like this. But when you feel like death is knocking on your door and the abx don't work and the doctors can't get you well, I felt I had nothing to lose.

In some ways it's like AI or Dr K's protocols ( not exactly the same methods but some similarities) and it requires an open mind and a lot of faith to accept these type of protocols. As I said before, it seems less scientific and more "hocus pocus" at times, but the end results is what counts.

It's too soon for me to say what the end results are. I can say that I'm seeing some improvement in the way I've been feeling. My abdominal pain improved the first two days but yesterday and today not so good. My mind and emotional state is improved about 25% or more. My energy level has improve about the same amount.

I am hoping to get the funds to stay one more week as is recommended but at this point Im not sure if we can do that or not. I will know by the end of the day if financially we will be able to stay one more week. I hope I can because I do feel it's benefiting me so far.

Oh, another thing. The doctor asked me to try to stop taking digestive enzymes and see if anything changes. I did stop but noticed that my foods weren't getting digested as well. He looked at what I was taking and tested it on me and said it was a very good digestive enzyme and said I could stay on them but increased my dosage from one to three with meals.

I've often wondered if I should be taking more as I felt I should but am always taking things cautiously and prefer to take too little than too much. I take the Digest Gold for those who are interested in knowing.

I have gone into this with my eyes wide open. I warned the doctor before we started that I would be questioning everything he does and want to know why he's doing it and what the exact ingredients are to each product he gives me. He's been perfectly fine with this and even enjoys answering my questions.

You can see from his enthusiasm and how he works and explains everything that he loves what he's doing. He's a positive person and I believe that plays a big role in his treatments. He sees people who are physically sick but he treats the whole person, body, mind and spirit because they're all intertwined into one.

This approach isn't for everyone, and like I said, six months ago I would have never considered coming to a clinic like this. Dr J does not promise to heal everyone who goes to his clinic and even says that not everyone leaves his clinic healed.

Some leave getting better and continue to get better over time, some never get better at all. Dr J is a Christian and he is humble enough to admit that even if you get well and totally healed it isn't because of him. He credits God for all good things that take place in the healing of one's body.

Some people might not like it that he's a man of faith. But he doesn't preach at you or make you feel uncomfortable in any way because of his faith. He's more open to me about his faith because I'm a Christian and involved in the ministry so he and I talk a lot about God, but I don't think he does that with everyone (but I can't say for certain one way or the other).

Anyway, that's kind of off point but did want to bring this up because I know people there are reading my posts and wondering if maybe this is something they should do. I want to be completely open and honest about my whole experience here so that anyone who's giving thought to going to this clinic will have all the facts, "the good, the bad and the ugly" (so to speak).

Right now, all I can say is I'm doing better than I was before I got here. I'm still skeptical of some of the BRS stuff, but I am trying to keep an open mind and be positive about it because I don't want my negativism to hinder any progress that I might have.

Oh boy, it's getting late! I need to shower and eat and get on over to the clinic. Will share more of my experience yesterday with the rest of you.

Let me just say this, I had a full body massage yesterday that was the most intense massage I ever had in my life! The massage technician massaged EVERY part of my body (well every part except "down there"). : ) But I mean every muscle in my body was massaged in a way that I had never experienced before.

When I continue my postings later on I will tell you how it made me feel afterwards. That was an interesting experience.

More to come soon...

Gary

[ 01-15-2010, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: gwb ]

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springshowers
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Gary.. I meant to respond sooner but I was not so able as I ended up ill and in the hospital for the week.

But.. I am so glad your seeing progress and thank you for sharing all the details of your experience there.

I would like to say one thing ... and take it for what it is worth .... sometimes there are things that do not make sense in our minds and there fore we become "skeptical" such as the machine that your doctor is using and the method he is using to see what your diagnosis is and best meds are etc.

This is something I feel you should try to let go off during your stay. Let yourself trust it. Since your there and that is the main way your doctor is guiding your treatment I think it is important to give yourself to it. Being one with your choices and your treatment.

My doctor at the clinic I went to used it as well. Not ongoing but did use it at certain check points. I have also seen another homeopathic doctor who used it and I have learned that is is quite and not only quite but extremely accurate and wonderful tool.

As a matter of fact that is how I want to follow up and fine tune my follow up protocols as I get better for the exact reasons your doctor states. Many of the supplements we take or use may not be being used by our bodies or may not be the the right ones or we may not even need them. Some just need dosage adjustments.

There is no other technique that can tell you all this and after experience and hearing others I feel that it is a valid and efffective tool.

I hope that you can ease your scepticism as time goes on and learn to trust it. It might make you feel better just by being able to take that step.

Sometimes just the faith we have in what we are doing or what we choose can determine how well we respond to it.

Your doing an amazing job over there... and I hope you do not take my comments in any negative fashion. It was intended as positive support and just comments that I think will help cross that line that you are openly admitting is a tough on for you.

Blessings and Keep on that path to improvement and trust in yourself and the choices your making. Something is guiding you to this route and through this process and towards your healing.
Your faith in that and in God and in that a higher power that is there for you is amazingly powerful.

I believe in the power of prayer and therefore sending lots of prayers and good thoughts and healing thoughts to you during this important time.

Blessings..

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by springshowers:
Gary.. I meant to respond sooner but I was not so able as I ended up ill and in the hospital for the week.

But.. I am so glad your seeing progress and thank you for sharing all the details of your experience there.

I would like to say one thing ... and take it for what it is worth .... sometimes there are things that do not make sense in our minds and there fore we become "skeptical" such as the machine that your doctor is using and the method he is using to see what your diagnosis is and best meds are etc.

This is something I feel you should try to let go off during your stay. Let yourself trust it. Since your there and that is the main way your doctor is guiding your treatment I think it is important to give yourself to it. Being one with your choices and your treatment.

My doctor at the clinic I went to used it as well. Not ongoing but did use it at certain check points. I have also seen another homeopathic doctor who used it and I have learned that is is quite and not only quite but extremely accurate and wonderful tool.

As a matter of fact that is how I want to follow up and fine tune my follow up protocols as I get better for the exact reasons your doctor states. Many of the supplements we take or use may not be being used by our bodies or may not be the the right ones or we may not even need them. Some just need dosage adjustments.

There is no other technique that can tell you all this and after experience and hearing others I feel that it is a valid and efffective tool.

I hope that you can ease your scepticism as time goes on and learn to trust it. It might make you feel better just by being able to take that step.

Sometimes just the faith we have in what we are doing or what we choose can determine how well we respond to it.

Your doing an amazing job over there... and I hope you do not take my comments in any negative fashion. It was intended as positive support and just comments that I think will help cross that line that you are openly admitting is a tough on for you.

Blessings and Keep on that path to improvement and trust in yourself and the choices your making. Something is guiding you to this route and through this process and towards your healing.
Your faith in that and in God and in that a higher power that is there for you is amazingly powerful.

I believe in the power of prayer and therefore sending lots of prayers and good thoughts and healing thoughts to you during this important time.

Blessings..

springshowers, so glad you are doing better now. I read your post about the picc line infection. Glad to know you are getting better.

Thanks for your words of encouragement. I agree with you that I need to trust the doctor and his protocol and be less skeptical. I have confidence in both of the doctors who are treating me. Both of them are wonderful doctors and I feel very comfortable with them.

More and more I am trusting that God is in this and trying to release my fears and skepticism to God and let the doctors do what they think is best for me. Or course, I do question everything they do and ask them to explain why they're doing this, or that, etc. I can tell they really care and have my best interests at heart.

I was planning to share a few more details of the past two days at the clinic but I'm too tired to go into it right now. I did get another massage today and it was even better than yesterday. My body had adjusted to it and was more relaxed and ready for the second massage today.

The massages feel so wonderful and it's something like I've never experienced before. Yesterday I became pretty tired after the massage and somewhat shaky which I guess could have been a herx reaction from the toxins moving around. Today it happened again but was not as bad as yesterday. I'm feeling pretty calm and relaxed tonight.

While some of the testing procedures are hard for me to comprehend, I will say that both doctors have been right on with their diagnosis. It's not just about treating lyme, it's about getting the body regulated and helping it to work against the disease on it's own.

It's hard for me to communicate all of this at this point, but my wife and I are learning a lot each day we go to the clinic. We're also reading his book and little by little it's beginning to make more sense to us. I'm hoping to be able to explain more about this protocol as I understand it better so that I can communicate it more effectively here on the forum.

Anyway, I want you to know that I do receive what you said in a positive way. I don't feel like you were being negative at all. I believe that what you said is true and I appreciate your encouragement to "let go, and let God" do His thing through these wonderful people at the clinic. I know my skepticism will hinder my progress and I definitely don't want that.

I am feeling better, not as good as I want to feel of course, but I've had more consistent good days than I've had in a long time. I do believe we're on the right tract and am looking forward to spending one more week at the clinic. I think it will make a big difference being here one more week getting the full two treatments.

We still don't have the money to pay for next week's treatment yet, but we are praying and trusting God that He will provide the funds we need at the right time. He provided us with the funds for the first week and we believe that somehow He'll provide the funds for the final week.

Again, thanks so much for your positive encouragement and prayers. It means a lot to my wife and I to know that so many of our friends here at lymenet are praying for us.

Tonight, I can honestly say that I feel calm, relaxed and cautiously optimistic about the future. That's a dramatic change to how I felt prior to coming here over one week ago.

Tomorrow I'm hoping to share more information (with my wife's help) about the past two days of treatment I've received at the clinic.

You remain in our prayers and we are trusting God to continue to do a good work in your body. I'm sorry you've been through so much pain and suffering with this disease.

To all who have been reading this thread, feel free to ask questions about anything I've shared regarding my treatments, the clinic, doctors, etc. I'm willing to answer any questions you may have.

Time for me to hit the sack. Good night everyone and thanks for all your support, good wishes and prayers.

Gary

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daisyrlb
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I thought you'd find this interesting regarding Gary's BRS (Bio Resonance Scanning) results.

Dr. J uses the BRS test in his exam and treatment (Dr. K uses ART in his exam and treatment).

After the BRS testing the doctor shared the BRS test results and order of priority of the top five areas of concern in Gary's body.

Following is priority number one:

#1 was Reproductive Organs. The doctor went on to share that the BRS results showed that Gary's body was deficient in testosterone, plus he shared that Gary's body would not be able to utilize testosterone that was given to him, so the doctor made Gary a homeopathic remedy that supports the reproductive organs.

In the medical history that Gary wrote, plus medical reports from Oklahoma, he shared nothing about having a testosterone deficiency (he is off the charts low). His urologist, plus a GP had him try testosterone creams, but they didn't work. Another doctor, endocrinologist, had him try shots, yes injections and still they didn't work. The doctors just told Gary that since it's not working, that's ok and dropped the matter.

However it bothered Gary a lot. He did research on the internet and learned the dangers of having low testosterone, specifically related to the heart. For the past 3-4 months he has been telling me that he was VERY concerned about having such low testosterone because of the relationship between testosterone and the bad effects on the heart (see PS below).

The BRS testing picked that up and was exactly information that Gary and I knew but that the doctor didn't know.

That's amazing!

The doctor is also giving him other homeopathic and herbal remedies to help with the other issues he's having.

We're seeing progress and are hope-filled once again.

Rhonda

PS: Gary has been treated for Lyme for five years (although he's had it since 1994). Those of you who have been reading gwb's posts know that nothing has helped and he has been steadily going down hill. About six months ago he took a drastic turn for the worse and has lost over 75 pounds. He's been in and out of ERs (DUE TO HEART ISSUES--HEART RACING, IRREGULAR HEART BEAT AND HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE.

[ 01-16-2010, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: daisyrlb ]

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eds
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Is there a website or a way to find other doctors in the US who are useing BRS? The BRS testing looks very promising. If you could find someone close to home, then you could go regularly and stay current accordingly.
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steelbone
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contact the hansa center at hansacenter.com

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
[email protected]

The harder you work the luckier you get!

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by seibertneurolyme:

One doc hubby saw a long time ago told him to be skeptical of docs who used the terms always and never. And so I have learned to question everything a doc says and then use my own judgement on whether to follow their advice.

Bea, this post isn't entirely directed to you, it's for everyone who's been following this thread. I got to thinking about this comment you made above. I just wanted to say that I completely agree with you that anytime a doctor uses comments like always and never--watch out!

I do want to say for the record, Dr. J has not once used phrases like that to us. He has been very upfront to say that not everyone that walks out of his clinic will get better. Of course, many of them do, but he is the first to admit that not everyone will get better and he offers no guarantees to anyone he treats.

So far, I believe what he's done (along with his associate doctor who works with me) has been helping me. Today I'm feeling better than I have in a long time. I am feeling good and feeling good more consistently than I have in over two years.

No, I'm not at the level I want to be at yet, but I admit, even if this is as good as it gets (I believe it will get better) I could live with this. Prior to coming to the clinic I really believed that I was having my last Christmas with my family. I didn't tell them that but I'm sure they could sense that from me even though I tried to put on a "happy face" during our time together at Christmas.

What you've posted about your husband's experience at Dr. J's clinic is unfortunate. But I do feel in fairness to him, he has not in any way misled me or promised me the moon. He is a very positive person and he believes in treating the whole person, similar to Dr. K's philosophy.

I am not easily fooled. The doctors here know I came into this somewhat skeptical. I was very upfront with them and told them this type of protocol is not something I would normally chose to do. But when you feel that death is knocking on your door, you will find yourself doing things that you might not have done otherwise.

Just look at how many of us (including you and your husband) have spent thousands of dollars trying all of the various medicines, supplements, herbs, IV's, rife, and on and on, and still haven't gotten better. Not that any of these things don't work, many of them do work and work very well for some people.

But the point is, we don't ever seem to know what will or will not work. We all seem to be guinea pigs going from one treatment protocol to another, and still, many of us never get well. I think it's an individual thing and cannot necessarily be blamed on a doctor, his clinic or a specific protocol.

People on Dr. B's protocol have died (not necessarily from the protocol itself) and others have had success. People have died on herbal protocols, but some have succeeded. Some seem to get well with Rife, some don't. Some do well with herbs, some don't. Some do well on Dr. K's protocol, some don't. How can we know who will or will not get better using one protocol or another, or one herb or another, etc?

I say all of this to try to bring some balance into this conversation. I don't want people to be led to believe that, because of your husband's experience, that Dr. J should be avoided. I don't think you said that or were implying that, you even admitted in your post above that "everyone is different". That's the whole point.

And that's what I think is important for all of us to remember. What works for one person may not work for another, not because the herb is no good, or the protocol is no good, it's just an individual thing as we've all come to learn through our own experiences.

I was taking about 20 supplements a day, and yet even with all of those "good things" going down my body, I felt I was dying and not long for this world. When Dr. J suggested I get off of all of my supplements, I thought he was crazy. But I went ahead and did what he suggested and started taking some herbal mixtures along with his homeopathic remedies.

Today, one week after being treated at the clinic, I feel better physically, mentally, and emotionally. I feel like I just might live to spend another Christmas with my three beautiful grandkids again. Of course, I know I might not, but the point is, I am feeling better.

So far, the protocol I'm on here at the clinic has been positive for me. Will it continue next week? Who knows, but I know that I have to give it a chance and let the doctors here do what they feel will be best for me. I'm putting my trust in them, yes, I'm still somewhat skeptical of some of the techniques.

But as springshowers encouraged me to do, I need to surrender to this protocol and trust the doctors, the treatments and the herbal and homeopathic remedies they're giving me while I'm here. That doesn't mean I won't continue to question them and ask why, this, why that, what's in this remedy, etc?

No way they're going to put something in my mouth without me being able to investigate it. I'm in this with my eyes wide open, but I am going to let go of my fears and make an effort to be less skeptical during my final five days here next week. I'm going to try to cast out all fear and simply trust that God has me here for a reason, and whatever the outcome is, I will have to accept it.

It's been so long since I felt hopeful, it's been so long since I felt good to any degree, especially on a consistent basis. As I said, if this is as good as it gets, fine with me. I could live like this and be a happy camper. I want to get better and I'm going to do everything I can to do my part to get better.

If I only get two weeks of feeling good and go back home to die, well, thank God I had two good weeks here in KS. That's how I feel about this because if I go back home feeling like I was, I know I will not be here posting to you good people on lymenet much longer.

I feel I've been given a lifeline here. I'm going to do all I can to make the best of it. But ultimately, it isn't about this clinic, it isn't about Dr. J, it's about God's plan for my life. I believe He isn't finished with me yet. I believe He has things for me to do with whatever amount of time I have left on earth. As the scriptures say, "Life is like a vapor, here today, gone tomorrow".

I'm taking it a day at a time, but I can finally say something that I haven't been able to say in a long time. I'm feeling good, better than before I came here. That gives me hope that I just might get better and survive this stinking no good disease.

I know I've rambled on a bit much here but I just wanted to share this with you all and let you know how I'm feeling at this point in my treatments. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I'm so glad today it's a good day for me--so far. : )

Will be sharing more later on about the treatments, etc. Be watching for my wife's posts too as she adds her own perspective of things, sharing from her point of view. Her user name is daisyrlb.

Thanks to all of you for your encouragement, support, prayers and well wishes. I really appreciate it and need them even more during my last week here.

Again, feel free to ask questions about anything regarding my treatment at the clinic, the doctor, or anything else for that matter. If you prefer to pm me that is fine too.

Gonna go off to the mall, store and out to lunch and enjoy our day. You are all in my thoughts and prayers too!

Gary

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ott70
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Gary,

God Bless your continued treatment out there in Wichita. I'm happy to see after one week that you are not upset about their practices and packing your bags. I'll keep praying for your improving health and for a source of finances to help support your trip.

I know that I feel I could tons better if I was able to afford routine visits out to Wichita. If I lived in that area, I'm sure I would have multiple visits to the Hansa Center.

God's Peace.

Derek

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by ott70:
Gary,

God Bless your continued treatment out there in Wichita. I'm happy to see after one week that you are not upset about their practices and packing your bags. I'll keep praying for your improving health and for a source of finances to help support your trip.

I know that I feel I could tons better if I was able to afford routine visits out to Wichita. If I lived in that area, I'm sure I would have multiple visits to the Hansa Center.

God's Peace.

Derek

Derek,you have been so encouraging to me. I really appreciate your comments and encouragement.

I told Dr J about you and mentioned your first name and he said he remembered you well. He asked if you were living in Colorado and I told him I thought so. He said to say "hi" to you.

Thanks so much for your prayers. I really encourages my wife and me!

Have a great weekend.

Gary

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seibertneurolyme
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Gary,

I am very happy that you are feeling better and of course I hope that you continue improving.

One point that I do want to make though. Many of the treatments you have had -- lymph drainage, massage, sauna, ionic foot bath etc are primarily detox treatments. Those are great and needed. And the more they are needed the better they will make you feel. But longterm if the infections are not treated then symptoms will return and the illness will progress.

I just don't want newbies to think that stopping treatment or simply doing detox will cure them. If someone truly has Lyme and other tickborne diseases it is a battle on so many levels. Unfortunately few of us have unlimited resources and as you said there are so many choices to be made.

Hubby has taken many breaks from treatment due to finances or other reasons. And sometimes it is very difficult to know if the meds are helping or hurting.

For patients with the financial resources there are many other docs who offer lymphatic drainage etc. But it is sometimes difficult to find ones who offer multiple treatments under the same roof. The doctors most likely to offer these adjunctive treatments are usually ACAM docs or chiropractors.

http://www.acam.org

As I said in a previous post, hubby had already had prior experience with all of the various detox things -- the main problems he encountered were a direct result of trying to treat the infections with Borrelogen and Wobenzyme. I guess it was a herx or a cytokine storm -- he did have elevated protein when they did the spinal tap in Kansas City.

There is no way to know if he had continued his nutritional supplements if that would have mitigated his herx or not. But the detox measures for him were not enough to mitigate the severe reactions he had.

I guess it is similar to the way some people react to samento or cat's claw and others don't. But for hubby who took the doses of Borrelogen and Wobenzyme based on BRS it was a disaster.

Probably a year later after he had done IV Rocphin hubby did use up the final bottle of Borrelogen -- at that time it just put him to sleep and did not do much of anything. And he has taken Wobenzyme and still takes Vitalzym but in much smaller doses.

Bea Seibert

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daisyrlb
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Lyme is such a complicated disease. And more doctors (ie: Dr. K and Dr. J, to name just two) realize that getting the best results for Lyme patients requires focusing on the whole person and not only the physical body.

The whole body is explained in numerous ways, for example: body, soul/emotions, mind, spirit OR physical body, energy body, mental, intuition, spirit.

More on that later, as well as, Dr. B's, Dr. K's and Dr. J's protocols--as Gary and I are leaving the hotel soon.

However, I did want to share this link regarding research I read. It is amazing the effects our words have on ourselves and others.

That childhood saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" NOT TRUE!

It is so fascinating and powerful (I shared this on another post).

Have any of you read this link?

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm

It's VERY interesting. It's regarding an experiment with water and the effect that words, spoken or written due to their frequencies, have on the water.

The research--is what it is--and the researcher comes to his own conclusions.

I see a simple, yet profound, universal principle in this research: Our words are of utmost importance, especially when you consider our bodies are 70% water.

Who'd have ever guessed our words really do have frequencies/energy?

Imagine the effect our words, prayers and meditation have on ourselves and others dealing with Lyme. Plus here is another link. This one regarding research on prayer and meditation.

http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm

Please keep those good thoughts and prayers coming Gary's way. They are making a difference! THANK YOU.

[ 01-17-2010, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: daisyrlb ]

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springshowers
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Hello Gary

Keep on doing what your doing...

Please do not feel like you have to explain or apologize or defend anything, no matter what else others post here or anywhere else.

I had to learn how to do that and when I did I felt so much better by far.

Everyone is Different is so 100 percent right.

Sending more good thoughts and prayers to you.

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txgirl09
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Yes, please keep us updated Gary! You are still in my prayers and I'm so glad some prayers are being answered.
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daisyrlb
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Dr. K and Dr. J talk about the importance of treating the whole person (such as: body, mind and spirit). These links are thought provoking.

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm

http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm

[ 01-19-2010, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: daisyrlb ]

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street129
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hoping hes getting better

--------------------
IgM: Neg Neg 34IND 39IND
41+ 83-93IND

IgG: Neg Neg 41+

cfs, hhv6, mycobacterium, hsv1, cmv, pirovirus, and Epstein Barr virus.... digestive system

GOD GIVE IT, AND GOD CAN TAKE IT AWAY

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daisyrlb
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street129, Gary is doing better and today is his best day yet. We are looking forward to seeing how tomorrow goes.
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MazzyStar
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Gary, if you are feeling good, then great! I know one of Dr. J's herbal concoction has cats claw in it. It made me herx so bad I thought I was literally dying. And he didn't warn me about it either. So, just be careful about the doses on the herbs. He had me start with 3 droppers a day, which is about 30 drops each time. He also gave me curcumin which I believe is for pain.
Im not a believer in the ionic foot baths...what Im curious about is if you take your feet out, does the water still turn colors? Seems like the yucky stuff is from the battery (or whatever that thing in the water is). But I did believe in the ST-8 and the vibe machine.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Ehrlichia


www.mommalyme.com

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lymebytes
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Hi Gary,
I remember hearing of Dr. J right away when I started coming to the Lyme forums in '06. I did a few of his detoxing products, that seemed to work well.

It is funny he sort of fell to the back of my mind as time went on. I read his book in '06.

I knew a woman who Dr. J helped get well and she could NOT say enough great things about him. She told me many stories of him bringing back people from the brink of death.

He is a God-send for many. Please keep us posted on your progress. Your wife and I have "talked" through pm so please tell her to keep me posted, this sounds very promising.

And Yes, I believe in prayer, in fact it is the only thing I KNOW works for certain :-) -I will be praying for you.

Dana

--------------------
www.truthaboutlymedisease.com

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MazzyStar
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Gary, if you are feeling good, then great! I know one of Dr. J's herbal concoction has cats claw in it. It made me herx so bad I thought I was literally dying. And he didn't warn me about it either. So, just be careful about the doses on the herbs. He had me start with 3 droppers a day, which is about 30 drops each time. He also gave me curcumin which I believe is for pain.
Im not a believer in the ionic foot baths...what Im curious about is if you take your feet out, does the water still turn colors? Seems like the yucky stuff is from the battery (or whatever that thing in the water is). But I did believe in the ST-8 and the vibe machine.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Ehrlichia


www.mommalyme.com

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ott70
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Brandi,

I thought Dr. J had stopped using cat's claw in his remedies, but maybe not. I mentiones cat's claw to him when I was at the Hansa Center in early 2009 and I thought he had done away with that herbal.

I'm not sure what I believe about the foot bath. The scientific evidence against it has much more firm ground to stand on. However, the people that make ionics foot baths don't skirt around the fact that the water itself is going to turn colors. For myself, I witnessed the colors in the water turn different each day with the same water and same charger. My first few days definitely generated more gunk than the days that followed.

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ott70
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For the ionic foot bath that the Hansa Center uses, manufactured by A Major Difference, here is the instruction manual for their machine.

http://www.amajordifference.com/customer/index.asp - click on IonCleanse Premier instruction guide

Starting on page 10, it goes into detail about the colors in the water and they don't hide the fact that the water itself is going to create a lot of the colors.

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MazzyStar
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ott - he did have cats claw (was labeled in ingredients) in mine...said he stopped using samento. That was July or august in 09.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Ehrlichia


www.mommalyme.com

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by Brandimc:
Gary, if you are feeling good, then great! I know one of Dr. J's herbal concoction has cats claw in it. It made me herx so bad I thought I was literally dying. And he didn't warn me about it either. So, just be careful about the doses on the herbs. He had me start with 3 droppers a day, which is about 30 drops each time. He also gave me curcumin which I believe is for pain.
Im not a believer in the ionic foot baths...what Im curious about is if you take your feet out, does the water still turn colors? Seems like the yucky stuff is from the battery (or whatever that thing in the water is). But I did believe in the ST-8 and the vibe machine.

Brandi, he hasn't mentioned cat's claw to me as of yet. Nothings been said about curcumin either, so far anyway. As Ott said, maybe he's no longer using this. I'll ask him about it tomorrow.

I just started reading about the ionic foot bath controversy yesterday. Interesting. I'm going to do some more research on this tonight. Yeah, after having your feet in the tub for 30 minutes it changes colors.

But what fascinates me is, not so much the color changes, it's the gunk and substances that comes show up in the water. Anyway, I will do some homework on this tonight and ask Dr. J about this tomorrow.

Dr J no longer does the Vibe. He said that the Vibe belonged to another doctor in his office who is no longer with him. Not sure if he's going to get another one or not. Will ask.

Brandi, if I'm feeling up to it tonight, can I call you and talk with you?

Gary

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gwb
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Brandimc and ott70, here's a company that claims there ionic foot bath cleanser is the "real deal" http://www.aquachionline.com/ . Take a look at it and tell me what you think about it.

By the way, let's move this conversation about foot baths over on this recent thread that was started on this topic. I don't want to see this thread become about foot baths. : )

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/90120

I look forward to discussing it with you further over on the ionic foot bath cleanse.

Gary

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daisyrlb
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Hello everyone,

SUNDAY, 1/17: Gary's best day since we've been here, and his best day in a long, long time. His energy was good and we were out and about ALL day.

The homeopathic remedy he's been taking right before he eats meals has worked. He is no longer nauseated plus he has an appetite! That is saying a lot, since he's been so sick and nauseated the past six months that he's lost about 75 pounds. (His GI told us if he kept losing weight that he'd put Gary in the hospital and put in a feeding tube. That was just one more thing that motivated us to look for an alternative way for Gary to be treated.)

Twenty minutes before he eats meals, he takes his homeopathic remedies (by dropper). These remedies provide support to Gary's vital organs. Gary also takes Microbojen which provides the body with the specific informational frequencies needed to overcome and control microbes. (Gary's BRS testing showed, at this time, his body would benefit more from this formula than Borrelogen or Lymogen.) All of these remedies and formulas that Gary is taking, work together to support the body so that it can begin doing what God designed the body to do--naturally heal itself.

In addition, each day the doctor performs BRS testing, and after getting the results he does various treatments (from laser, to magnet, to essential oils, etc.--more on that another time).

Gary continues to have these treatments (I'll get more specific on what these do next time I post) :
ST-8 Lymphatic Drainage Therapy,
Ion-Cleanse Detoxifying Footbaths (also once on his hands),
Mustard foot bath (once so far),
Infrared Sauna (once so far),
Lux Electronic Gem Treatment (which in the past has focused on his vital organs and today focused on his stomach and brain),
Infrared mat therapy,
Massage with essential oils.

To say that Dr. J focuses on the WHOLE PERSON is definitely accurate--he focuses on the body, mind, and spirit (spirit--he leaves that up to the individual to decide). He does believe for optimum health that treating the whole person is ideal (much like Dr. K and others have come to realize) in order to see recovery.

Originally Gary and I assumed this meant a holistic approach but that's not the case. Also it's not New Age. Dr. J is a Christian, but like Gary shared, "Dr. J doesn't 'preach it'". Since Dr. J has had Lyme and thought he was going to die--he knows exactly what Lyme patients are going through. At 6'7" he is the picture of health, and a walking "billboard" that a person really can recover!

MONDAY, 1/18: Gary had another good day. Almost as good as Sunday. After his treatments we went to Starbucks, then to the health food store to pick up our dinner. We were in the hotel room the rest of the night, both busy on our laptops until after 11 PM.

It amazes me that, except for one day, Gary's not even been taking naps. The past year or two he has been taking naps everyday; and in the past month or so, many days he was taking a morning and afternoon nap. It's wonderful to see his energy level improving.

Gary and I are "grasping" more and more the concept that everything has frequencies as we consider everything is made of atoms. Atoms are energy. It even makes me wonder if "this energy thing" is somehow related to that sense we get about PEOPLE at times when we sense a person is negative, or positive, or evil, or sad, etc. or when we sense a person "zaps our energy"?

Also it makes me wonder about PLACES. I remember visiting the Alamo in Texas about ten years ago. I couldn't quite remember my history (later looked it up) but there was such a sad, sorrowful atmosphere, and I knew something really bad happened there. It was heavy in the air to me. It is the same atmosphere I sense when we go to the the Oklahoma City bombing site. You know what I mean?

Also Dr. J believes in a "sense of knowing" (what Dr. K calls "intuition") as being important. In hindsight, Gary and I both wish we had paid more attention to that "gut feeling"; if so, there are numerous treatments (ie: steroid shots in the spine and even surgeries) that Gary would have never had. Can you relate?

Being here in such a positive and caring environment really does make a difference. Hearing words of affirmation and "love" makes me realize all the more how much our words and thoughts really do have an impact on ourselves and others. Who would have guessed?!

Words really do make a difference, a huge difference (as I've talked about previously). Even what we think about--if our mind is focused on death that too has an impact. Recognizing "miracles along the healing path" and being thankful and verbalizing that is so important, too.

As I look back Gary was doing really bad and I thought things couldn't get worse, but after that GI doctor's comment--things did get worse and Gary went downhill even more rapidly. Above he shares that he thought it would be his last Christmas with the family. (The Bible says, "Life and death are in the power of the tongue" meaning our words and science has, once again, proven the word of God true.)

TODAY, 1/19, 8:00 AM: Gary is on his laptop answering emails and watching the news. I just asked Gary if he wanted to share something with you all. He said, "Yes. The past couple of days I've had more energy. I've been feeling more emotionally stable and mentally my mind has been stable and more clear. While the abdominal pain has improved it is not yet where I want it to be (this is different from the stomach/nauseousness). I am hoping for more progress today and throughout the week as I continue treatments. Plus I look forward to continuing on Dr. J's protocol from home."

BRANDI: Sorry we didn't call you last night, the time just got away from us. We were both busy on our laptops and when we decided to call, can't believe it was almost 11 PM, obviously too late. Just wanted to let you know that it wasn't because Gary wasn't feeling well that he didn't call.

LYMEBYTES quoting you above, "And Yes, I believe in prayer, in fact it is the only thing I KNOW works for certain :-) -I will be praying for you." LOL--that is for sure. Thanks for including your link with your posts. I did go to your website and my heart goes out to you, your husband and son. Lyme Disease is hideous. My prayers are with you and your family for God's leading and healing touch.

Everyone who is praying, thank you so much. God still answers prayer! And thank you all for your positive words, well wishes and continued prayers. They are making the difference in Gary's treatment.

May you have a hope-filled day!
Rhonda

[ 01-19-2010, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: daisyrlb ]

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calmom
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Gary,

I am new to lymenet - came on here to research and consider all the treatments - hoping to learn from so many who have been through so much...

I had just talked to the Hansa Clinic last week. Kind, respectful, hopeful and professional people are all I encountered. They follow up not by telling me what I have to do, but hoping that they helped me know better what will work for me.

Thank you, and your wife, for taking the time to share your honest thoughts, hopes, questions and experience - it is a gift to many of us. After talking to Hansa I thought...all my life I believed these ideas in concept, perhaps now I will have to see if I really trust my life to them. Then I remember that courage is not steppping out without fear, but in spite of fear - once we have done the best we can to prepare - seems somewhat tied to faith there.

I will be praying that you will recieve even more than you are giving, and that you return home on a clear path to the wellness which we are designed for.

May peace be within you..
Maryam

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n.northernlights
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OT about Cher, when I google she went to the Leonardis Klinik in Germany.

About homeopathic and alternative medicine; are you advised to avoid cell phones and wireless and frequencies like that? That was a big issue in Germany with the bionic treatment.

It was said that often treatment failed because patients had stayed at the hotel with all that wireless and using cell phones.

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ott70
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quote:
Originally posted by gwb:
Dr J no longer does the Vibe. He said that the Vibe belonged to another doctor in his office who is no longer with him. Not sure if he's going to get another one or not. Will ask.

Gary

That's a bummer about the vibe machine. It must have been Dr. Samantha's. I can't verify if the vibe machine made a positive impact on my detox protocol, but I can tell you that machine gave me the most sensation out of the other treatments. I did a two minute vibe one day and felt like I had a caffiene buzz the rest of the evening. They toned down me treatments on that machine after that, although I handled it better the second time out there.

Just for sake of information, please let us know if Dr. J is going to get another one if you get a chance to ask.

Keep up the good work and positive thinking!!

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ott70
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quote:
Originally posted by n.northernlights:
OT about Cher, when I google she went to the Leonardis Klinik in Germany.

About homeopathic and alternative medicine; are you advised to avoid cell phones and wireless and frequencies like that? That was a big issue in Germany with the bionic treatment.

It was said that often treatment failed because patients had stayed at the hotel with all that wireless and using cell phones.

Yes, the Hansa Center does recommend keeping EMF exposure to a minimum. They recommend also buying some EMF inhibitors such as a small chip you attach to your cell phone or laptop or a pendant you can wear as a necklace.

I believe the company I purchased from is called BioPro.

http://www.bioprotechnology.com/

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Topaz
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I'm so happy to hear of your progress!

I have a question. Actually, maybe more than one.

Most people stay at the clinic for a couple/few weeks, right?

What do they do when they return home?

Would you still be under the clinics care in treating your lyme? Or do you go back to your llmd?

Gary, after your stay, will you continue with the supplements, etc. recommended at the clinic?

Will you go back to the clinic at all for detox or treatments?

Sorry for so many questions!

Keep feeling better, Gary!

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massman
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"It even makes me wonder if "this energy thing" is somehow related to that sense we get about PEOPLE at times when we sense a person is negative, or positive, or evil, or sad, etc. or when we sense a person "zaps our energy"?"

exactly exactly EXACTLY !

It is great that you can sense this !
IME most "logical thinkers" cannot feel this and are essentially clueless about this.

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txgirl09
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Gary, you have been in my prayers and I'm so glad to hear some of our prayers have been answered. Please continue to keep us updated. I always look for your post.
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Truthfinder
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Gary and Rhonda,

This thread is truly a wonderful gift to all of us here. [Smile]

Thank you so much for your generosity and willingness to share your experiences.

[kiss]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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daisyrlb
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Good Morning:

Start of the day and Gary is feeling good. Whooo hooo.

Ott77 and Brandimc commented regarding Dr. J's use of Cat's Claw. Gary asked him yesterday and Dr. J, as always, was more than willing to answer.

Following is not an exact quote verbatim (I didn't have a tape recorder going--Smile):

Out of all the bottles of homeopathics, herbs, and supplements in Dr. J's office only one has Cat's Claw in it (and it's not even the first ingredient). When he uses this herb, he prefers the whole cat's claw herb (as opposed to TOA free). He then went on to share that recovery from Lyme Disease is not "just about one ingredient". For a person to recover it requires following the doctor's COMPLETE protocol that each individual has been led to follow.

So there it is from the doctor's mouth.

His answer really does make sense. If a protocol requires an individual to do A, B, and C plus X, Y and Z; yet the individual only does B, will that person recover?

I am reading Dr. J's most recent book on Lyme, "Beating Lyme Disease" subtitled, "Living The Good Life in Spite of Lyme" (second edition and I notice the copyright is 2008). The book is helping me to get a better "grasp" of his protocol and those treatments Gary is having (which I keep saying I'm going to explain how they're helping). This is all so new to us, mind boggling really (in a good way), and I need to think about even how to clearly communicate this part of the protocol. Hopefully tonight I'll be ready to give it a go.

More later as it's time to get ready.

Blessings to all,
Rhonda

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daisyrlb
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Tracy says, .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time - just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are....

You are a person "after my own heart". Prayer really does make a difference, maybe THE difference.

I have to learn how to add those different "smiley faces". I like that one "kissy faces".

Prayers to all,
Rhonda

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Limeaid
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Gary, first I want to say WOW. I'm so happy that

you are feeling better. HOPE is a wonderful

thing, isn't it?!?! I know that you have had a

really rough go of this disease, but your faith

and determination have led you to this doctor

and hopefully your recovery. You are an

inspiration, and so is your wife. What a

wonderful woman! I have been ill since June of

last year. It has been very difficult to say

the least. But I have learned so much from

lymenet, I can't begin to tell you. You have no

obligation to tell any of us about your

treatment, or your physician, and the ups and

downs that you experience. But you do. And I

am very thankful to you for that. Thank you for

giving me HOPE. I am praying for you and your

continued recovery.

Best wishes to you and Rhonda.

Take care,
Limeaid

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