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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Any one heard or tried new herbs for Lyme Viranon, Myrrh Forte

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Author Topic: Any one heard or tried new herbs for Lyme Viranon, Myrrh Forte
josh123
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Hi All,

My Integrative medicine doc mentioned that recently new meds (herbal) came in for lyme treatment.

The protocol is to take Artemisin Complex, Myrrh Forte and Viranon together and repeat 2 to 3 cycles. He left the decision to me to go with this protocol or not.

I am thinking of trying Artemisin Complex first add one more. But based on the protocol we need to take together to work effectively.

Did any one heard of this or tried any of these?

I am hesitant to take all together as I already have stomach issues for strong meds.

Could you please let me know your inputs on these herbs.

Thanks and Regards,

--------------------
NA

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Keebler
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Viranon contains Thuja, St John's Wort and Licorice.

Thuja is contraindicated for those with seizures - and many with lyme are at risk for seizures.

I very strongly advise against Thuja. IMO, no person with lyme should ever take this herb, in any form, in any formula. I have personal experience - and later personal study to back up my strong advice to avoid it.
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Keebler
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Integrative doctors often don't have the full herbal medical education that naturopathic doctors receives. Still, some ND might not know that no one with lyme should ever take thuja (and that's how I was given it, by a regular ND, not a LL one)

however a LL ND should know better.


­­When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:

if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )

so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways. Proper ASSESSMENT of not just lyme but coinfectoins is vital. Someone trained by ILADS is best to assess.

Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.

When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.

For those considering complementary support methods / or other avenues entirely:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.

BOOKS - Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.

You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . .
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josh123
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Keebler, Thank you so much for your valuable info on Viranon.

I Could not find much info on common side effects of Myrrh Forte and Viranon.

Do you have any info on Artemisin Complex? Thinking of trying this.

--------------------
NA

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Keebler
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You say that you could not find much regarding " common side effects of Myrrh Forte and Viranon." (end quote).

To be very clear, the seizure threshold lowering of Thuja (one ingredient in Viranon) is not a "side effect" but a property of the herb, it's just what it does - stimulate nerve function / brain . . .

but when any substance with such a property is given to a specific population who should never be given such a stimulant, there is a danger.

I'm not sure I can eloquently state this but I hope you may see the difference between "side effect" and a "property" of a substance.

It's not so much that a certain population may have a so called "side effect" but it's more like those in that certain percentage should NEVER be taking the substance (whether Rx, herb or even food in some cases) in the first place.

It's not right for them, due to their medical presentation.

This is just one of many reasons why any doctor treating someone who deals with lyme / tick borne &/or other chronic stealth infections really must be fully educated in what those kind of infections really do.

Unless they have that education, they can be a danger to patients with such.


Thuja homeopathic should also be avoided by anyone with lyme / TBD / chronic stealth infections. Be very clear about this.


If you do research on Thuja, you will find it in the "sage" family. However, as Thanksgiving approaches, rest assured that garden / culinary sage is okay, not the same. You can enjoy sage in with your gluten-free rice or whatever stuffing alternative.


But if you find "sage" in any herbal formula or any homeopathic, steer clear since it could be Thuja by a different name.
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Keebler
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As for myrrh, it can be helpful as I recall but I was disappointed it did not have more of an effect for me. As a helper, good, though.

And since there is so much rotation with herbs, it's good to have this one on the team to shift back and forth. Ginger is similar, too.

It can help "move" "stuff" yet can cause a little stomach distress so best to first start it with food.

Search for "myrrh" at this site to see what I mean by it helps "move" "stuff"

www.itmonline.org


Artemisinin, I don't have energy to retrace my notes and my file on this is scrambled like a spy code for some reason.

You can search in the archive for past threads on it.

And read all you can about it from both LL authors: Zhang . . . and Stephen Buhner.

The raw herb artemesia is not the same as artemisinin (the stronger "extract" of sorts), to be sure. artemesia is not strong enough and wormwood, especially not the same thing - a distant cousin.

So do be sure to read up on it from lyme literate / babesia literate sources.

Artemesinin MUST always be in combination. Never alone. Babesia requires many elements to whatever therapy method is chosen. And it can take a lot longer than one might think.
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[ 10-20-2017, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Artemisinin

Search Archives, both in Medical & General forum, in the "subject" bar:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/search/search_forum/1

---

Artemisinin has a chapter here and is part of this protocol:

http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine - by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang


http://www.sinomedresearch.org/

Website passwords: clinic; clinic

http://www.sinomedresearch.org/ZCprotocols/index.htm

Zhang Protocol


http://www.hepapro.com/hepapro_product.htm

Hepapro

----

and see all relevant lyme / babesia books -- and his website . . . Stephen H. Buhner
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Keebler
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Please be sure to communicate back with the doctor with whom you work to put on the inside of your chart: AVOID THUJA (as well as others in the sage family) in any form or formula, even at tiny amounts.


[You might explain why: Avoid due to seizure threshold-lowering property and the risk of seizure to all with lyme, even if they do not have a history of seizure activity, lyme puts them at risk for such.]

Never take this just to maybe see how you "might do with it" as once the seizure threshold has been lowered and a seizure can break through, that can change the brain and make it much more susceptible to further seizures with less of a trigger.

Very important to have that in your records. Do not even take a chance on this. I hope you feel comfortable passing this along to your doctor. And I hope your doctor will welcome this information in the spirit intended.
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josh123
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Thank you so much Keebler for the detailed information.

I will definitely mention this to my doc about Thuja.

TF provided info on art and also used search for art.

looks like now people are using sida acuta and cryptoleptis.

Wish to hear the experiences of people used these new ones.

thanks again Keebler.

--------------------
NA

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Keebler
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TF's information is likely more current on the topic (and you can always count on it being good information).

From my file notes:


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/115218

CRYPTOLEPIS sanguinolenta - Links
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Keebler
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www.ilads.org

ILADS - be sure to check on what their November conference lectures will be. Always great detail with that. After the conference, videos are usually for sale and sometimes, there are some articles, etc.

The hope would be that every LLMD and LL ND would be able to attend the annual conference but, if not able, at least in some way (DVDs?) be exposed to the entirely of the presentations - the full range of research and treatment issues discussed by this group of very fine professionals.
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