-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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hiker53
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Interesting.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8880 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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aklnwlf
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Wow, that's a link I didn't see coming! My functional medicine chiro had me taking an expensive liquid zinc supplement along with many others that I can no longer afford. He did muscle testing and when I first started the zinc I could really taste the metal. Maybe I should start taking it again.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6138 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Brussels
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From the link above, this is the conclusion / summary:
"So the cycle goes something like this:
1-Genetic mutations begin way back in the family tree as a result of nutrient imbalances.
2- MT dysfunction begins to express itself.
Metallothionein (MT) is a family of cysteine-rich proteins and a wonderful antioxidant in its own righ in the GI tract (where most MT exists).
If a (healthy) person has an excess of copper in the GI tract, more MT is automatically expressed, which then binds to copper and prevents the amount of copper that can make it into the liver and bloodstream.
Brussels: if one has weak metabolism / epigenetic weaknesses , that does not happen, then copper levels rise because of lack of MT 'expression' in the gut.
3- First grandma is affected, then mom, then you.
4- Copper dysregulation occurs (along with an increase in other heavy metals) with each successive generation, which pushes ZINC and other protective nutrients to an all time low.
5- Results in greater occurrence of oxidative stress disorders such as:
- mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS),
-autism (a distinctive feature of autism is undermethylation and very high oxidative stress, many at 50% free copper),
-Alzheimer’s disease,
-methylation imbalances,
-autoimmune diseases (it’s no coincidence that the majority of these disorders occur in women),
- and increased mental health disorders such as depression, bipolar and panic disorders,...
- schizophrenia, Parkinson’s disease, eating disorders, and AD(H)D."
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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posted
How to find out whether you got the oxidative stress problem, which causes that lack of expression of MT proteins in the gut:
From the website above:
"We currently have two different indicators to check for oxidative stress:
1- Inordinate amount of copper in the bloodstream that’s not bound to ceruloplasmin. (Br.: too much 'free copper' in the bloodstream)
2- The copper/zinc relationship itself. Elevated copper is always associated with low zinc, and low zinc is a well known factor in oxidative stress.
In fact, every mast cell client I work with is low in zinc."
--------------------- The HPU /KPU disorder is another evidence of oxidative stress:
"Pyrrole disorder (double deficiency of zinc and vitamin B6) is another marker for high oxidative stress and should also be considered.
Copper/zinc imbalances are associated with both mast cell disorders and methylation imbalances.
Copper/zinc imbalance does not cause MT dysfunction, it’s the other way around, which is directly connected to genetic mutations (epigenetics)."
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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Brussels: if I understood it right, the supplementation of zinc, B6, all the HPU/KPU supplements will not solve the methylation problem ....
....as the problem is CAUSED by epigenetic 'mutations' or gene expressions that come from generations ago, from bad eating habits or something like that.
Supplementation is still a must, but it must be taken for life, if the epigenetic problem is not solved (just a conclusion from reading this article).
This is a book from dr Walsh, from where the author of the website learned the main concepts for this article.
Brussels
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posted
Dr. K says so, that the HPU /KPU problem was just sometimes solved by addition of zinc and other vitamins / minerals, but that usually, the problem remains for life (meaning, the person needs supplementation for life).
If the cause is epigenetic, well, that explains why.
The only possible treatment I see to get our gene expression back to 'normal' is Psycho-therapy, meditation, MFT /EFT, hypnotism or whatever techniques that may affect the psyche deeply.
In our case (daughter and I), our bodies reacted VIOLENTLY with any type of zinc supplementation in the past, for years and years.
Even though our bodies needed zinc badly, the moment we took supplements, we reacted violently against zinc: I felt my brain shut down, I had to lie for days feeling simply ill, poisoned.
My daughter developed fever, joint aches, headaches, like with lyme disease.
And this happened only with 1/6 of a capsule of zinc, taken 2-3 times a week (meaning, practically NOTHING).
The experience repeated so many times, spaced within all these years, with so many different zinc formulas, that the only thing I was sure was that zinc felt like death to both of us (mother and child).
It took us about 10 years to be able to take zinc supplements.
Now I can take 1 capsule of zinc, and my daughter too. The SAME supplements that made us so ill in the past.
The zinc fear is still with us.
But now, what happens is that zinc does help my body to detox. Like other 'normal' people would react.
I will react with a herx-like feeling next day, for about 2, 3 days, from one single zinc pill. I take binders, and everything goes back to normal.
I'm taking Heildeberger zinc formula, specific to the KPU problem (with B6, manganese)
I guess - just a guess - that when the methylation problem is rooted through epigenetics, deeply rooted, the body will react badly to the 'good' supplements that help methylation, not after hours, but practically immediately - a violent rejection, like poisoning.
We solved that initial step of rejection, and now we'll try to build the amount of zinc to minimal levels, allow our bodies to go through detox, and then try to solve the epigenetic problem (if this is possible....)
Solving this puzzle seems to take my daughter's whole life (she's only 14) and considerable part of my life too....
aklnwlf
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posted
Made an error on my previous post. I didn't taste metal at all when I first started liquid zinc. I tasted nothing. Took quite a few weeks for me to taste it.
Great stuff Brussels!
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6138 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Brussels
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Thanks.
What about other tastes?
People with lyme complain they lose taste.
Did you lose taste and then got some improvement with zinc?
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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aklnwlf
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I've never lost my sense of taste but a couple times things tasted like vinegar when I was really, really sick. I thought maybe it was a mini stroke because I also was very confused and had memory loss.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6138 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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LisaK
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wow this is all very interesting. I am working on this exact thing with a genetic person. this may be helpful, and I have an apt. with him Monday coming up so I'm going to ask tell him al this.
he has told me before not to take any zinc and I wonder if this is why, but if I need it then what?? I don't think I have enough strength to do like you Brussels! and keep trial & erroring forever! I am feeling so poorly that I really feel
like giving up. every time I turn a corner a new problem/sx shows up! and beats me down. the pepole that get sick like this are so lucky if they keep their brains. I have not and it is the worst part of it all by far. I can't even remember to look at my own notes.
so last night I was diong my semi-annual thing of plunking my sx into an online sx checker and on three sites one of the top 3 dx was pernicious anemia. I do this check when my sx seem to take a BIG turn, which they have right now.
Brussels, or anyone.... I have constant nagging what I thinnk is gall bladder or liver pain as I feel it right there under my ribs. - I also have lost my total tolleraance for alcohol . the other night I has 1/2 glass of wine to celebrate something and I immediately because dizzy.
not tipsy or buzzed in any way, but swoony/dizzy. the next morning I woke and had nausea/vomiting and bed spinning dizziness that all lasted most of the day. I could barely walk straight most of the day .
I still feel dizzy 2 days after consuming the wine. and more so on the way I move my head. short term memory loss. Of course I have more sx but that is only what happened right after that wine so IM thinking it was that. ??? I am wondering if the wine was some how connected to gall bladder/liver/heavy metals/ MAST/mehtylation...????
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Brussels
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LisaK, sorry you are on your downturn phase now... I know really, what you mean. These are the hardest times to pass through....
I hope though, you still have energy and motivation to go on.
While I was ill with lyme (and my daughter too), I just kept the whole zinc topic apart. I tried about 3x, it did not work, but I had no time (due to full schedule of treatments), no brain, no energy to concentrate on the KPU problems.
Only after lyme was FULLY dormant, not returning anymore, and after taking a break of 2-3 years (fully fed up with treatments and supplements!!)...
... I decided to look better into the problem. Only recently, it got solved, it seems.
Anemia must come first, as it is life threatening. do you have babesia?
Liver + gall bladder are also important to look at. I usually keep some formulas and herbs / supplements for each organ on the table, so that I can take these in rotation.
Rotation works MUCH better than taking a single thing for each organ.
Many lyme sufferers lose their gall bladder, so I would pay close attention to that too. I like natural supplements + homeopathy, because I can do that rotation without many risks...
the alcohol example is also very common. I also could not take any wine. Not even a SIP of wine, even if of best quality, without feeling very bad.
It's not drunk, it's like being poisoned.
Most lyme sufferers have this problem, and I guess, it's a liver /gall bladder related: too many toxins there.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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I'm on my first week of liposomal Vit C experience, and I think that it is a very inexpensive way to detox WELL.
Had I known about it during lyme, I think that would be a great starting point. The way I feel spots of inflammation after intake of lipo-C is very interesting.
My nostrils dry, I get joint and muscle pains that come and go, teeth root in pain, moving pains, headache that come and go.
I keep drinking the thing during the day, as I feel it moves toxins, and when I start to feel too toxic, I take it again. That is how antioxidants should help, right?
So far, no loose stools.
I also asked energetically if it helps my liver, and the answer is yes.
But the best are joints and bones. I feel this stuff helps me in joints and bones, sinuses, my throat feels dried up which is good.
I'll do next batch combining ascorbic acid and MSM powder.
It' s just a guess, but for those who have detox problems, this is a very inexpensive and STRONG way to detox, I find. I mean, the liposomal thing.
It's quite easy to do, it just requires a bit of patience (to dissolve all the lecithin in water solution).
when I get full of problems, I do ART on myself (or go see someone).
I will also do some EFT /MFT sessions, to cope with the emotional part.
And then do a lot of tapping on my body (there is an excellent book, very easy to use, that has ALL main acupuncture points that are worth tapping or massing).
Acupressure Potent Points.
All the years I accumulated of acupressure experience, trial and error... If I had this book 20 years ago, it would have made my life easier!!
Two more liver treatments (besides homeopathics and herbs) are liver massage (you push the liver down, you need someone to do that), very fast liver relief, sometimes...
.... and tapping under the arm, height of nipples (gall bladder meridian).
Some of liver / gall bladder products that come to my mind: milk thistle, DE, dandelion (fresh, dry, full plant, or any part),
.... Lymphdiaral (this stuff is great!), Hepar compositum (Heel), bitter herbs, MSM powder, lemon with olive oil,
...chlorella, spiru + barley leaf powder, VFT /ETI has this wonderful liver + gall bladder + pancreas formula that I also love,
.. the violet ray (moves the bile), foot reflexzones (can do miracles too, sometimes, but it can be very painful, look for the liver and gall bladder points), easy to do (just step on a round river stone and take water)...
I hope you find something to help, but in between, avoid alcohol.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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LisaK
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wpw thats a lot of info!! thank you , and I hope I can get some of this to sink in.
interesteing you mention underarms and such as I have been having pains in my R arm pit as well.
I am sccheduled to have an ultrasound on my gall bladder/liver, etc next week.. should I postpone that and try other things like you suggest?
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Brussels
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You're welcome, Lisa.
My liver was the worst part of my body during lyme. Then after, I still got candida to deal with, so my liver was still very much in trouble.
I would go for a check, anyway. It's always one more clue about what are the actual problems.
You can just add things on your own anyway. ---------------
Doing one thing at a time, never helped my liver.
I think lyme was a big stress to my liver and it took a toll.
I like the idea of dr K: working on different levels, aiming the same organ / problem, so that the chances of recovery are better.
Example: If the liver is in deep trouble, aiming the 3 bodies / 3 levels will bring faster results:
1- physical body: supplements, food, herbs, massages, flushes, acidity control, temperature (hot or cold), physical exercises, toxins, infections...
He says that aiming at least one treatment in EACH body SIMULTANEOUSLY usually solves the problem faster than aiming just one body type of treatment at a time.
The logic is that if you got an energetic issue (2nd body) blocking your liver (1st body)
... (blocked energies from meridians, or interference fields in the teeth such as cavitations), ...
...no matter how much you treat your physical body with all possible treatments, the liver will not heal completely.
The 2nd body controls the 1st body, but not the opposite.
Same goes for mental blockades (3rd body).
If you have solved the physical nutrition deficiencies, infections, toxins (1st body) + corrected the meridians, etc(2nd body)...
... but you still got deep rage / bitter emotions blocking your liver (3rd body), the liver still cannot heal.
Again, the 3rd body influences the 1st and 2nd body, and not the opposite.
That is why these ART treatments look crazy, too much...
For each organ in trouble, it's always better to include at least one treatment in each 'body'...
Try tapping under the arm 4x day for at least 1 minute, it was (and is) one of my favorite points.
Fortunately the liver is very much versatile, and has great healing capabilities (less for gall bladder though... as many people take it off).
I hope you find something that helps! I forgot to mention zeolites.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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LisaK
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oh well I do have tons to deal with in my 3rd body then!!!
I know I need to work on that and forgot the connection- so thank you fo rthat reminder!
I get so caught up in the reaction to things that I forget how to be calm most of the time. I think this has a lot to do with my adrenal state as I am always in a fight or flight mode.
something interesting I just found out- I had this nagging hip (inside) pain for my entire adult life. with lyme it got much worse. lately it has gotten much much worse and some days unable to walk correctly.
I saw an ortho (who had lyme btw and was a really great dr (why can;t they al be like him!!!???)) and he dx me with psoas tendonitis . looking into that reveals that it can create a constant state of fight or flight becasue it messes up your adrenals!
well, I am amazzed and very hopefull that my therapy for this issue will help some strange things my bady has been doing!!
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Brussels
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Wishing you good luck, Lisa!!!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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map1131
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Brussels, thank you so much for my lesson of the day. I needed this info.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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aklnwlf
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Hey there everyone. I've been going to YouTube and doing some EFT tapping for the liver.
I was going to a functional medicine chiro while I could afford him and he did muscle testing for supplements and what system to work on. He would do something different every time I saw him.
Interesting new stuff for me.
The really interesting thing I took away from the brief time I went to him was he said I had a huge emotional block that was preventing my healing.
And of course he hit the nail right on the head and said I had unresolved anger/hatred towards my father.
He tried to help me release it through tapping and was unable to help me.
The weird thing was I could feel this overwhelming rush of something starting to come out of my soul or somewhere, then bang....crashed into a brick wall and wouldn't release.
It was shocking and frightened me.
He said his wording wasn't right for me and I'd have to work on it myself at home and it might take some time to release.
About a year later I was following along an EFT tapping video on YouTube for childhood trauma and doing the tapping and adding in my own words when I felt that rushing darkness coming out again and was able to release it after many, many verbal expressions and the tapping.
It only took me 57 years to forgive my father.
I still don't quite understand how all this stuff works, but it does.
I see the physical, emotional and spiritual component of healing now and still have a long way to go.
I appreciate the info on this thread!
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6138 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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