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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Consolidated list of Babesia Symptoms - compare / contrast (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Consolidated list of Babesia Symptoms - compare / contrast
bcb1200
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Updated 2/26/2016. Added Dr. A's symptom list

I thought I would post the various different Babesia symptoms on one thread. There is a lot of overlap, but also some differences. When I read some of these, it makes me think Babs is my problem more than Bart.

Dr. B's Guidelines:

BABESIA SPECIES-
� Rapid onset of initial illness, often with sudden onset of high fever, severe headaches, sweats and fatigue, thus it is easy to know when infection began.
� Obvious sweats, usually at night, but can be day sweats as well.
� Air hunger, need to sigh and take a deep breath; dry cough without apparent reason.
� Headaches can be severe - dull, global (involves the whole head, described like the head is in a vise).
� Fatigue is prominent, does not clear with rest, and is made worse with exercise.
� Mental dullness and slowing of reactions and responses.
� Dizziness- more like a tippy feeling, and not vertigo or purely orthostasis.
� Symptoms cycle rapidly, with flares every four to six days. � Hypercoaguable states are often associated with Babesia infections.
� Rarely, splenomegaly
� Very severe Lyme Disease can be a clue to Babesia infection, as it will make Lyme symptoms worse and Lyme treatments less effective.

Dr. S's Bab's Symptoms:
Babesiosis

As with other co-infections, there is a lot of overlap of symptoms between Lyme disease and Babesiosis. An accumulation of the following signs and symptoms probably warrant testing and/or treatment of Babesiosis:

___Chills

___Fatigue and often excessive sleepiness

___High fever at onset of illness

___Night sweats that are often drenching and profuse

___Severe muscle pains, especially the large muscles of the legs (quads, buttocks, etc.)

___Neurological symptoms often described as "dizzy, tipsy, and spaciness," similar to a sensation of "floating" or "walking off the top of a mountain onto a cloud"

___Depression

___Episodes of breathlessness, "air hunger", and/or cough

___Decreased appetite and/or nausea

___Spleen and/or liver enlargement

___Abnormal labs (low white blood count, low platelet counts, mild elevation of liver enzymes, and elevated sed rate)

___Headaches (migraine-like, persistent, and especially involving the back of the head and upper neck areas)

___Joint pain (more common with Lyme and Bartonella)

___anxiety/panic (more common with Bartonella)

___Lymph gland swelling (more common with Bartonella and Lyme)


From www.truthaboutlymedisease.com
Babesia
Bradycardia (Slowed heart beat)
Headaches
Night sweats
Fever
Dry cough
Air hunger
Easy bruising
Tinnitus
Rage
Despair
Chills
Flushing
Vivid or violent dreams
Dysphagia (Difficulty swallowing)
Psychic Phenomena
Severe Neurological illness
Thirst/Polydipsia (excessive thirst)
Fatigue
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Severe nausea
Malaise (A vague feeling of bodily discomfort)
Anemia
Thrombocytosis (Increased numbers of platelets in the blood)
Thrombocytopenia (A decrease in the number of platelets in the blood, resulting in the potential for increased bleeding and decreased ability for clotting)

In the book "Diagnoses and Treatment of Babesia" by Dr. S he lists the following as Babesia symptoms:
� High fevers
� Dullness
� Listless
� Chills
� Sweats
� Headaches
� Fatigue
� Sleep more than 8 1/2 hours per day

From Dr. K's older treatment protocol:
Babesia:
intra-cellular Malaria like protozoal organism. Infects red-cells. 2/3rds of Lyme clients also have Babesia, which is hard to diagnose: over 17 antigen- different subspecies. Most common: B.microti, WA-1 strain in Western States and B. divergens and others in Europe

Diagnosis: best is long term observation of blood under darkfield microscope. Babesia tends to leave dying cells while under darkfield observation.

􏰀 Vertigo
􏰀 headache fatigue
􏰀 dental problems: accelerated tooth decay and cavitation formation
􏰀 TMJ problems
􏰀 eye problems (floaters and blurry vision)
􏰀 weight loss and abdominal problems (GERD)
􏰀 fibromyalgia,
􏰀 shortness of breath
􏰀 malaise
􏰀 drenching night sweats and fever/chills during Herxheimer reactions.
Therapy: think Mepron or Noni, Artemisinin and Oxo

** edited to remove LLMD's name **

From Dr. A's list on Gordon Medical Website:

Overview:

When a patient’s symptoms are predominately head and neck you must think of Babesia Like Organisms (BabLo). When the patient has depression, anxiety, panic disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), attention deficit disorder (ADD), with sweats that are worse at night, think BabLo. If the patient has severe memory and cognitive dysfunction with the same sweats as above, BabLo must be considered. For the patient (with any of the above) that also has temperature intolerance, layering clothing at night due to chill then throws off the bed covers due to overheating, BabLo cannot be ignored. If this same patient has racing or irregular heart rate and it is worse at night you are getting even closer to confirming BabLo. Air hunger can come with it. If the patient (with any of the above) describes their headache as weird, pressure, moving sensations, hot or cold, worse behind eyes, crown or in the occipital area consider BabLo. Babesia causes severe insomnia that is resistant to treatment

General BabLO Considerations:
◾Moves very slowly in its chronic form. Can take years to develop a clear chronic symptom pattern.
◾Affects the brain and head; any atypical or exaggerated symptom related to the head must be considered.
◾Can cause headache, occipital and/or frontal (especially behind the eyes), or the sensation of pressure without pain.
◾Most predominate symptoms are related to cognitive and memory processing.
◾Can cause severe mental health symptoms, could manifest as any diagnosis in the Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders – Volume Four (DSM -IV).
◾Sweating can remain a symptom in the chronic form, can be drenching, especially at night.
◾Little body pain except the wrist/hands and/or ankles/feet
◾Can have severe temperature instability, hot to cold, with the predominance to chill.
◾Patient can have heart racing (autonomically mediated) usually short runs of tachycardia or premature ventricular contractions (PVCs), often at night, with a normal cardiac evaluation.
◾Can have other autonomic nervous system disruptions causing shortness of breath (SoB), orthostatic hypotension.
◾Symptoms can be aggravated when present with other co-morbidities, metal illness, etc.
◾Symptoms can be aggravated by other functional metabolic disorders, premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and especially menopause and andropause.

BabLO Symptoms :

Chief Complaint: Usually mental and/or emotional
◾Disabling problem with short-term memory, concentration.
◾Progressively disabling memory.
◾Difficulty with direction.
◾Gets lost in familiar place.
◾Difficulty with simple linear thinking.
◾Severe depression (can have suicidal ideation).
◾Fear! Fear!, Fear!, OCD, anxiety to panic.
◾Any symptom from the DmS-IV.
◾Pressure sensation (more than headache), occipital, crown and behind eyes.
◾Various sensations in the head, hot spots, numbness, crawling, crown tenderness.
◾Hypothalamic Dysregulation.
◾Severe sleep disturbance, delayed sleep onset and frequent waking, with difficulty falling back to sleep.
◾Weird dreams to nightmares.
◾Temperature intolerance, hot and cold with chill dominant.
◾Can have occasional fever, but usually can’t get warm.
◾Sweats, can be drenching, worse at night.
◾Mild fluid imbalance, overloaded or dehydrated.
◾Appetite swings, can’t get enough eat, or no appetite

[ 02-25-2016, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: bcb1200 ]

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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seekhelp
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Very helpful to see them all in one place. Thank you.
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BoxerMom
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Here's what I can add. Of course, some may be seen with other infections, but all of these point to Babesia in me:

- Sleep apnea
- Poor blood sugar regulation
- Poor cortisol regulation (adrenal fatigue)
- Symptoms improve with skipping meals or low carb/low calorie diet
- Mid-afternoon fatigue
- Nighttime energy increase (second wind)
- Insomnia
- Lack of Stage 4 deep sleep
- Unrefreshing sleep
- Hip pain
- Neck pain
- Mid-back pain
- Spine pain
- Numb extremities
- Heart palpitations
- Heart valve changes (reverse with treatment)
- Cherry angiomas on skin
- Brain fog
- Apathy
- Facial tremors/twitching
- Feeling of phlegm in throat
- Ear fullness

All of these symptoms resolved after one year of Babesia treatment, but they are back with my relapse. Still treating Babesia...


[Frown]

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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Geneal
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Great lists.

I also had jaw and tooth pain with babesia.

Hugs,

Geneal

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t9im
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we associated our daughters food craving and weight gain with babs, not Lyme.

--------------------
Tim

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BoxerMom
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I also had intercostal neuralgia - shooting pains between the ribs.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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nefferdun
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I found a few symptoms I was not aware of.

No wonder I had 5 cavities last time I went to the dentist.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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BoxerMom
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Up.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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canefan17
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I wish we could really isolate certain symptoms to their infections.

So many of those symptoms overlap with Bart.

Blurred vision, insomnia, heart palps, shortness breath, sweats, headache, TMJ, rage, tinnitus, poor sleep

Grrrrrr

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Laura_W
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Very useful.

I'm going to print and take to my LLMD (I'm not certain how literate he is) Although he is willing to treat the lyme... I know that my symptoms fit Bart... and now look like Babs as well

--------------------
10/10 EIA 1.4+, 41 (IGG), 23 (IGM)
Bitten over 20 years ago.
Currently not treating, looking for a Dr who will work with my insurance lol.

More muscular, cognitive, nerve issues than joints. Facial droop and blurred vision.

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BoxerMom
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Up

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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nefferdun
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Is bone pain one?

Some of the symptoms I did not connect with babs were dry cough and losing my voice (sounding "froggy"). I believe my loss of motivation and ability to feel genuine happiness was a big part of it.

I am so much better. Not well, but capable of enjoying myself, making goals and doing things. Spring!

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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pamoisondelune
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What about red-orange or dark tea-colored urine? I've been thinking that was Babesia. How come it's not listed here?

----Polly Polygonum

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philly78
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quote:
Originally posted by BoxerMom:
I also had intercostal neuralgia - shooting pains between the ribs.

Hmmm...I get that.

--------------------
When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal.

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Starfall
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Despite repeated negative babs tests, I have many symptoms on all the lists. The ones that I don't have, that really throws the LLMD, are the drenching sweats and the fevers--never had any of that.
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Jamers
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Ditto to Starfall. No night sweats or fevers. I think I have every symptom listed though. I think this is my WORST offender.

One more to add is ALLERGIES! I seem to be allergic to things or maybe the die-off because I am miserable and popping Benedryl daily.

Also, the dark urine mentioned by Polly. I wonder if this is eliminating the red blood cells that die through the kidneys.

--------------------
Diagnosed Pos. Lyme Nov. 17, 2010, Igx.
Pos. Babesia Duncani March 2011, Igx.
Clinical diagnosis for Bartonella

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mr al
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My doctor says if you don't have night sweats you don't have Babesia. Which I'm curious to hear opinions on.

I had every sympton on that list including severe severe night sweats, but they're the only thing that has gone away from the list.

Babesia happens to be the only thing I haven't been treated for as well. And I'm not better.

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Jamers
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MR. AL-Like I said above, I NEVER had night sweats! But if you have the other symptoms I would try the treatment and see how you do.

I am herxing for sure and tested positive for B. Duncani with no night sweats. Not everyone gets them

--------------------
Diagnosed Pos. Lyme Nov. 17, 2010, Igx.
Pos. Babesia Duncani March 2011, Igx.
Clinical diagnosis for Bartonella

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FYRECRACKER
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dito. no nite sweats for me. fevers, yes. air hunger, yes. sx made worse by exercise, yes. insomnia etc

--------------------
www.mylymechronicle.wordpress.com

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deerose
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yes my LLND seems a bit too vested in seeing the big sweats.

Which I have had at onset and once only thereafter in a big way.

I have minor ones occasionally but the EDS shows babs.

this time she wants to know what the EDS finds so
maybe babs specific tx will ensue.

I will get it another way sooner or later.
Overall I am so much better that it may be getting cross hit with some of the abx and herbal tincture combos.

--------------------
Not everything in life that can be counted counts and not every thing that counts can be counted...Albert Einstein

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FYRECRACKER
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DEEROSE. Babs shows up on your EDS screen?

That's hard to catch (in the test i mean)

I had Borrelia Burgdorferi show up ONE time only.

--------------------
www.mylymechronicle.wordpress.com

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mr al
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What is EDS?

And is there any harm in taking babs meds if you may not have it?

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map1131
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I've always read the dark dark urine is babs. Of course one must make sure they are not taking any vitamins or supps with dyes that change color of urine.

When my husband had his first lyme disease experience one of the things that first alarmed him was his urine. It scared the you know what out of him. Night sweats and urine color.

He went downhill fast daily. 10-14 days later his lyme literate sick wife picked his rear up and shoved him in the car to our PCP.

Woman on a mission. Don't anybody tell me no and don't question my knowledge. My PCP knew he had to follow my orders. ABX NOW, Heavy doses!!!

[rant] [rant] [rant] [rant]

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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Jamers
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Mr al-My doctor had me take Artemisinin before my test results came back to see if I had any reaction. Prior to this I didn't have a lot of shortness of breath. Once I took the Art. I sure did!!

Also be sure that you are being tested for Babesia Duncani (WA-1) and Babesia Microti.

My first LLMD skipped the B. Duncani and I have it!

--------------------
Diagnosed Pos. Lyme Nov. 17, 2010, Igx.
Pos. Babesia Duncani March 2011, Igx.
Clinical diagnosis for Bartonella

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mr al
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thanks jadams. I'm going to look into your advice.
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map1131
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thanks jadams. I'm going to do this. I've denied babesia in myself for years. There used to be poster on this site California Lyme. I just found the thread. I miss her.


I was posting about some sx I was struggling with and she posted it was positively a babesia sx. I've never forgotten her message to me. I sure do miss her too. She was traditional medicine and I had switched to alternative medicine..so we differed on.

Now bcb and Boxermom have got my attention and this babesia sx list had got me concerned that I've missed babs all these years?

I tested negative for babs Igenex in '02, but I know better than that being gospel.

Thanks all.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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Jamers
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Yes, I was on the fence for awhile about having Babesia (mainly b/c I didn't want to have it!) but now I realize (at least in my case) that even the smallest of symptoms are a good indication of these infections.

The only symptom of Baronella I have is really BAD anxiety and therefore I know I have it. Now that Im treating Babs I notice some more symptoms like pain in the soles.

Another symptom I think goes along with Babs is thyroid dysfunction. Mine would always get enlarged and make me feel like I was choking several times a year. I also had "allergies" that were a heightened immune response which comes from the thyroid/thymus? Now, that Im treating this all came back full force.

--------------------
Diagnosed Pos. Lyme Nov. 17, 2010, Igx.
Pos. Babesia Duncani March 2011, Igx.
Clinical diagnosis for Bartonella

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Jamers
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I was on the fence for awhile about having Babesia (mainly b/c I didn't want to have it!) but now I realize (at least in my case) that even the smallest of symptoms are a good indication of these infections.

The only symptom of Baronella I have is really BAD anxiety and therefore I know I have it. Now that Im treating Babs I notice some more symptoms like pain in the soles.

Another symptom I think goes along with Babs is thyroid dysfunction. Mine would always get enlarged and make me feel like I was choking several times a year. I also had "allergies" that were a heightened immune response which comes from the thyroid/thymus? Now that Im treating, this all came back full force.

--------------------
Diagnosed Pos. Lyme Nov. 17, 2010, Igx.
Pos. Babesia Duncani March 2011, Igx.
Clinical diagnosis for Bartonella

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BoxerMom
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Up again!

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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BoxerMom
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Up. Still a great thread.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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bcb1200
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up again

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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manybites
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bcb1200 and jamers :I have almost all the symtoms above.In the past treatment with artemisin helped but they came back with full vengence and almost killed me 3 times.I know that when tried Malarone and Mepron helped but none of the doctors gave me the correct dose.Was too small and it comes back.

Also after I had the car aksident it came back fully force and in hospital they told me I was negative for it but while in vancomycin and other drugs I was sweating and changing the clothes in the morning and gasping for air while WBC and RBC went down hill and ended up with Blood transfusion and they kicked me out of the hospital PRAYING for me as they could not figure it out what it was.All the labs were negative ( somthing I knew as i never got pozitive on anything but IGENEX and muscle testing and QXCI showed malaria besides lyme and I test highly pozitive in muscle testing for ARTEMISIN ).

Back to Malarone and Artemisin it calmed it down but the first days the vomiting and the pressure in the head caused surreal pain in the head and gut /liver.

Wish I had done igenex babesia fish but my husband tested negative while he is shaking same as me but no head presure yet while my son got pozitive on MICROTI and was treated but still has some twitches on and off.

The twitches were for me from head to toe and never left still are a few here and there .Have treated bart for 2 1/2 years and am disable now .

I know I had bart before but the symtoms above all of them it belong to BABS ( I was choking , gasping for air since 9 years ago )before it I had just anxiety ( bartonella ) and my cd57 has been 115 high in the begining and 2 years after.

It is babs ( I gained weight and than 2 years ago and 1 year ago while after the car accident was activated in 48 hrs , run high fever for 1 month ended up switching 2 hospitals , could not walk and have a shower but almost in wheel chair , tremor and sweats and vomiting non stop preassure in the head , heart issues , blood clott in the left hand and they stoped me taking artemisin that IS when rbc went down the hill in two weeks and thank good from the blood transfusion the numbers went up and I was left to get out of the hospital.

Could not move for 3 months from the bed and was taking low dosages of artemisin and finally could get to a LLMD that saw the eusinophils HIGH ( LLMD TOP ) and gave me MEPRON.

Could not continue treatment Due to funds and vomiting.Quit fighting but survived and gained 60 pounds while left mepron after 3 months of taking it .The Top LLMD ( was far and exspensive) while my body was quiting and I quit too.
Now SOMEHOW my body survived and I am still in artemisin finally raised it to 6 pills a day and feel a little HUMAN .Could not Write in the forum.

I have had it for many years ( had deleted my previous identity due to suspicious from my insurance) and fighting with the ducs in the hopsitals that IS BABESIOSIS and they told me that they treat it with BLOOD transfusion ( well for the moment kept me alive) .

Can not say my previous name as I have been here before for 4 years .

i WAS DIAGNOSED clinicly with eusinophilis HIGH since 14 years AGO in EUROPE end that is where I started being fatigue and headache while the docs called it MIGRANE startedon the left side and spread everywhere in the head and torso .HAve down everything under the son all HULDA CLARCKS steps years ago , cofe enema , Bionic ( by the way exsploded the BABESIA /protozoa due to ozone that I have had treated previously but killed lyme as I was the only petient that killed BORRELIA GARINI and cried in pain for 5 hrs due to the treatment that killed the lyme in my head ) .Have used saunas etc.

Anyway all I am explaining is ( Bionic works for LYME ) carefull with OZONE as it boost babesia even though was a great killer of a virus for the moment that could have been as well as meningitis , or do the treatment for lyme in GERMANY and start right away ARTEMISIN and mepron MALARORE.

I was in Artemisin for 2 1/2 years.The first improvement from BABESIA was the HIGHEST dosages that HULDA CLARCK offers in step 2 and tre for the parasites , But carefull I would not recomend it as I DID NOT KNEW I HAD BABESIA and I created Blood clots and was horrible but it saved my life until 1 year after I found out I had lyme FULLY BLOWN LYME .IGENEX POZITIVE HIGHLY NEURO all bands.

The neuropsykiotrist in hospital TOLD ME I AM AN EXSPENSE TO MY FAMILY!Can you beilive it , while I was insisting that I have babesia and a RASH showed in my right leg a rash that I have had clearly 6 years ago but was clueless of LYME.

So due to being tired /exzosted and EXSPENSES I never got all the treatment of BABESIA and I HAVE BEEN diagnosed from the TOP LLMD for it.

DO not ignore any of this symtoms above they scream BABESIA and check eusinophils or RBC if they are low as mine were after the car accident(BABESIA exsploded thanks good I have had treated lyme in germany with bionic before the car accident).

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lymeboy
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quote:


Boxermom wrote:

"- Poor cortisol regulation (adrenal fatigue)
- Mid-afternoon fatigue
- Nighttime energy increase (second wind)
- Insomnia
- Lack of Stage 4 deep sleep
- Unrefreshing sleep
- Hip pain
- Neck pain
- Mid-back pain
- Spine pain
- Numb extremities
- Heart palpitations
- Brain fog
- Apathy
- Facial tremors/twitching
- Feeling of phlegm in throat
- Ear fullness"

I have all of these symptoms, in addition to dizziness (floaty, tippy feeling), occasional fever ( without running a high temp) - I had one isolated instance where I was running a super high tempurature and called an ambulance because I was extremely short of breath. That was almost a year ago, and it hasn't happened since.

None of my Babesia symptoms are super heavy from day to day. But I have tested positive. And I do flare both weekly and biweekly. But it is sporadic.

I was under the impression that the symptoms above were Bart symptoms.

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lymeboy
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It was a Babesia fish test. My Doc has only said "yes, you're positive" Upon being asked, he just says that I am positive. He's pretty shot out.
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bcb1200
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I just had my LLMD give me the Labcorp test for Duncani. It is their test # 807177 and they call it "WA1 IgG Antibody IFA"

I have heard good things about this test.

I was a weak positive (just over the cutoff) on Igenex's IgM for Duncani.

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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Lymetoo
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Lyme and coinfections lists are also found here:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/81386?

Found in "Quick Links to Popular Topics"

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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MannaMe
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What are Cherry angiomas?
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bcb1200
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up

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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BoxerMom
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Bump

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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Mo
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i know i have babesia when i wake up looking like don king.

mo

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BoxerMom
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I wake up looking like a Zombie. We should hang out.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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James1979
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I always look like a zombie, but I've never had babesia.
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Mo
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lol, boxermom! [spinning smile]

except for the color, this here is my morning sweat head, to a T:

 -

(the face i'm hoping will return to normal with appropriate treatment.)

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lymeboy
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wow I would love to have a hairdo like that!

Every symptom on Boxermom's list, excluding skin angiomas and sleep apnea.

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BoxerMom
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"I'm Mr. Heat Miser - whatever I touch, starts to melt in my clutch - I'm too much!"

DaDumDumDum...*spin around*...DaDumDumDum

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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BoxerMom
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 -

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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Mo
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bwaahaha! [lol]

that's actually more like it! got the color too!

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bcb1200
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up again

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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nefferdun
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Reading through this again and notice that no one stated (that I saw) that Babesia Duncani does NOT cause profuse sweating. I am not sure if any one mentioned cramping in the large muscles of the thighs, buttocks and back.

Mentally I was a mess with confusion, inability to follow a train of thought and memory loss. It was a feeling of being robed of my soul; numb to the world.

Then there is overlap with FL1953 which can also cause many symptoms listed like hoarse voice, overall muscle pain, joint pain, depression/anxiety and extreme fatigue.

Insomnia is related to FL1953 but babesia causes you to over sleep. When I was treating babesia I could fall asleep during the middle of the day with the TV blaring.

It has been hard trying to distinguish one infection from another because they overlap. I find when I get the infection right, the correct medication will help. When it is another infection coming out and taking over, treatment begins to fail. It always takes me several months to figure this out.

I wonder what causes a chronic low grade fever? Babesia maybe?

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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LymeCFIDSMCS
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I have had drenching night sweats with babesia duncani, and I only have duncani, not microti per testing, though I suppose I could have both and just had a false neg.

The floaty brain feeling is what I would describe as completely vacuous, as if everything in my head has turned to vapor. Super confused, can barely understand the simplest things, and really can't do anything because I'm too cognitively impaired.

Shaking chills that have my teeth chattering, that turned to a near-delirium at the worst of babs.

The exhaustion with babs is the most epic of all, and I have had ME/CFS for 20 years -- babesia takes the cake with just feeling too unbelievably wiped out to function at all. It takes literally almost all my daily energy to brush my teeth, so I wonder if that's why babs causes dental problems sometimes?

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BoxerMom
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I have a B.duncani Lyme friend who sweats a lake every day and night. She is absolutely drenched.

She has been exposed multiple times on the West coast, and only tests positive for B.duncani (not microti).

I have B.microti and sweat very little.

My worst insomnia was due to Babesia. It was when I started treating Babs that I could sleep again.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't know if it makes sense to say any infection can't cause a particular symptom, though I know doctors like to do this.

It's misleading for patients when they either have or do not have what is considered a hallmark symptom of a particular infection.

That's why I like this thread. It's comprehensive. You don't have to have every symptom, and symptoms can change during treatment, as mine have.

LymeCFIDSMCS - I hear you on the floaty brain and epic exhaustion. I still get those when I herx for Babs. I can't do anything but lie on the couch and stare. It's unreal.

[ 04-26-2012, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: BoxerMom ]

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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BoxerMom
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Up for new members.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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nonna05
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OK ! Does Ozone really feed/flare Babs???
What is the abx for babs,,,,,

All of the above sx and then some,,,,,,

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nonna05
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Well try again,,I am not doing well at all...This new heavy duty tingle/jitter/numbness is doing a number on me...

What will calm this down?/

I know I've seen post recently on this ..

I try search and it just sits there /gives back no info

What else treats babs ,mepron, a-bab,,omni??

I have had several drops in the past ,but told to take, not which ones hit Babs..

I'm jumping out of my skin.

So tired of sporadic sleep, sleep aids aren't helping /kinda reverse. Then I end up in a fetal position during day trying to sleep or just knocked out.

I seem to have an issue with L-tryptophan in 5-HTP, or Kavanace pm or soothe and relax//
and now I guess trazadone.....

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nonna05
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probably should have started different thread .It's just that so much of what i'm going through is on this .

I had some small or lasser version of this ..after a few months ,lot's of sx went away or down,,
something just kicked this into high gear.

Lord I just want to sleep at night for several hours and get up able to brush teeth clean-up /bath and start a day it's just been forever..
and now feel like my insides want to crawl out side.. [Frown]

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wanthealthback
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has anyone tried A-Bab for babe? (I'm one year into treatment and have been struggling tough. lyme, bart, babe. ?) (possibly for 31 yrs...tried to read face of llmd....not sure what i saw and try not to think about it)

llmd put me on a few drops of A-Bab for babe two weeks ago. Caused a head/neck ache, that took my attention away from everything else in my body and the world. Haven't been well since.

He stopped meds and has me going slowly. Taking one doxy a day. moderate herx happening. Really scared. Read earlier post....of doxy attacking spiro of lyme....

Does doxy address babe and lyme or just the spirochette of the lyme? Today feels like the flu...classic lyme....not babe, correct?

And, I need a lyme literate counselor...Find that my "inner witness" is aware during the emotional havoc, but it has no influence on my words/actions. Then when the rukus calms, I'm appalled at myself. It's not helping my recovery.

If I should have posted new thread, I apologize. I read more than I post. Thanks very much, this is a very lonely and scary disease for me

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nonna05
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helpers//// please
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BoxerMom
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Up

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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17hens
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I would recommend educating yourself on ozone. It helped me tremendously and did NOT feed my babesia.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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Marnie
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There are ozone saunas (head sticks out so you don't breathe the ozone).

I seem to remember years ago, Tincup mentioning that the RDW...red (blood cell) distribution width (how far apart they are) on a normal blood test

can be an indication of a babesia co-infection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_blood_cell_distribution_width

Anyone else remember that?

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delljen
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First, great thread.

I need advice. I have many of the Babesia symptoms listed above. Except no-night sweats.

I have tested HIGH positive 1:1024 for Babesia Duncani through Labcorp. My LLMD says he still doesn't believe it is really a positive for Babesia but it is instead probably a just cross reactivity to the Fry Bug and that I only have the Fry Bug and not Babesia. I guess that could be true.

I have been treating Lyme and Bart for 2 1/2 years. I am worried because my stiff neck and assorted (maybe)Babs symptoms come and go and I have never treated. I am also worried to push for treatment in case I wake a sleeping giant (the BABS Giant) and I will go down hill again.

Could it really be just a cross reaction? Should I just ignore the test result and not treat? Will I ever get fully better if I don't treat?

This stuff is all so confusing and scary.

I also kinda wonder why did he have me even take the test in the first place if he wasn't going to believe the results? Weird

--------------------
Lyme, Bart, Babs D, FL1953
I am just sharing my thoughts and experiences - I'm not a medical professional.

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Marnie
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The various pathogens can have identical proteins/parts of a protein which we react to.

Your doc might be correct.

Re: the "Fry bug"

Look at what one poster (trfogey) said here:

http://www.alsforums.com/forum/als-research-news/16782-fry-lab-identifies-new-als-bug.html

Don't shoot the messenger.

One of the greatest challenges to vaccine development comes from pathogens that mutate their surface antigens (proteins) very rapidly. In many cases, the areas that mutate are those on exposed loops of external proteins.

And Bb is a quick change artist for sure!

Our response, our antibody to Bb's OspB (outer surface protein, B) is not "healthy". Years ago, it was found that Mg restored the health of that antibody to Bb's OspB.

If our body only recognizes OspA (and Bb "hides" OspB), we maybe in trouble.

We made the mistake of basing the lyme vaccine on OspA only.

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delljen
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Actually, I think if your opinion and that of my doctor are correct and it is the Fry Bug cross reacting and not Babesia then Yippee. So thanks for the info.

--------------------
Lyme, Bart, Babs D, FL1953
I am just sharing my thoughts and experiences - I'm not a medical professional.

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BoxerMom
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Bump

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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sleeping dog
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my night (and day) sweats are usually accompanied by sudden fluctuations in temperature. one minute my temperature is 100.7, a minute later 98.2, then a few minutes later 99.9. all the while, i feel as though i have a very high fever (although it is never truly high); tremendous sweating (esp. facial) and sudden body aches and extreme exhaustion. i also often have sever sweating while eating or just after eating. does anyone else experience this? babesia? your thoughts are appreciated...
thank you,

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BoxerMom
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Up for more input.

I am STILL treating Babesia! Apparently my certainties in life are death, taxes, and Babesia. Grrrrr....

And my symptoms now seem to morph. Constantly, frequently, and to my great annoyance. [Mad]

Current sx: (all of which come and go, often quite rapidly)

Drenching night sweats
Chills
Low grade fevers that feel like they should be higher
Hot flashes
Extreme cold extremities, like my feet are in a bucket of ice
Running vibrations, esp down thighs
Profound exhaustion
Depression
Utter hopelessness
Apathy
Brief tachycardias
Brief arrhythmias
Brain fog
Morning stiffness
Foot pain, esp heels and soles
Random stabbing pains
Global brain swelling
Stabbing ice pick headaches
Bone pain in legs
Muscle weakness
Pain in large muscles, esp quads
Hip pain
Frontal headaches, esp between eyes
Tinnitus
Teeth and jaw pain
Sound and light sensitivity
Air hunger
Afternoon crash with onset of most symptoms
Second wind at night with resolution of most symptoms (I would be an awesome vampire)
Difficulty falling asleep
Difficulty waking up
Cortisol dysregulation
Low blood pressure
Blurry vision
Eyes don't converge on horizon, weak eye muscles?
Tea colored morning urine (red blood cell casts)
Insulin dysregulation
Poor blood sugar management
Feel significantly better on very low carb, no sugar, no grain diet
Feel significantly better when eating very little
Nausea
Dizzy spells
Brain feels spacey, kinda high

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Oh, wait. Forgetfulness. [Razz]

My Babs' symptoms were vague at best before my Lyme diagnosis. I definitely did not have the "classic symptoms" of fever, chills, sweats, air hunger.

I got all of these and then some when I started Babesia treatment. They were constant companions for a full year. The worst symptoms are gone now. I haven't had an episode of derealization, depersonalization, or suicidal ideation in years.

I don't spend half the day crying. No weird rages at nothing in particular. The deep and profound despair is gone.

During my first year of Babs' treatment, I swore I had brain damage and would be that way forever. Now I can see that my brain symptoms come and go with inflammation. I have periods of lucidity that awe me.

The meningeal swelling causing neck and mid-back pain that made me want to cry is gone. (My ability to write a coherent sentence, apparently also gone.)

No more allergies. Still can't eat eggs, but the rest of the environment is not so hostile toward me.

In fact, most symptoms are only present during my afternoon flare and when herxing.

But now I have completely new symptoms. Nausea, tinnitus, sweats (never had those before), vibrations.

Oh! Facial tremors are gone. None for maybe 6 months now.

Of course I wonder if Protomyxzoa Rheumatica is an issue now. I take many anti-malarials and anti-parasitics, so treatment is covered.

I can't believe how tenacious and mercurial this bug is.
But as frustrating as this has been, four years ago I would have killed to be at this point in treatment.

I have parts of days that are symptom-free. I occasionally wake symptom-free. I hate my continued reliance on meds and supps, and my compliance has been for crap lately, but I can't deny that I am still slowly and steadily improving.

I don't know if there is an end to this. I hope so. My life is so altered, there is really no life to go back to. But I would still like to think that someday I will attain reliable health and a reliable brain. And do something other than treat infections.

I'm just rambling now...

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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RC1
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Gosh Boxermom I feel like I could have written that myself. I have treated all of the infections aggressively too.

I am having days that are completely symptom free, for me it seems I go 2 good days, 1 with symptoms. I recently had to go back to treating Lyme so I don't know if the symptoms are coming from cleaning that up again.

I am also doing Coartem, every other week, some times I do two weeks in a row, I am also on double intracellulars which will hit Bart if that's an issue.

I am starting parasite treatment soon with pharmaceuticals. I really don't know what is going on with me. I wonder if it's FL1956 too. I am doing so much better, but still have these symptoms. The every 3 day thing makes me lean toward Babs, but who knows.

I also feel like my life has gotten so small due to these infections. When I am feeling good I realize that I'm going to have to rebuild it. I also have had 2 shoulder surgeries during this time, which make my life even smaller. I am 3 weeks into my second one.

I am so happy that I am at the level of health I'm at (compared to where I was) but I am not where I want to be. I want a remission. I feel that I might still have something active so I am afraid to go off abx and have a big setback.

I also wonder if it's Thyroid related or some other hormone. Well, I guess I will just stay after it for now and see if I continue to see improvement.

Thanks for sharing.

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Lymetoo
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Have you tried artemisinin and zith?

Sounds like way too much suffering to me. I'm very sorry!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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CD57
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Wow, this symptom list looks like me too although I would have attributed some of those symptoms to bart (we've talked about this). The DP and mood stuff that you mention is something that has never gone away for me. I

I would add:

deep vascular bruising mostly on shins sometimes arms
tendonitis like feelings in forearms
jaw pain
burning red/purpley hands
swollen lymph nodes under jaw and sore throat
mouth sores

Still babs?

I started malarone and half dose Alinia 2 days ago. Notice nothing yet. I'm wondering if some people don't herx until the levels get really high? I just, oddly, feel better, which I attribute to suppression of the bugs but not death. Could be wrong?

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CD57
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Boxermom, I was thinking about you...I wonder if the appearance of some new symptoms means you have knocked down your babs and something else is flaring, per the carousel/onion theory?
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BoxerMom
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RC1 - I will PM you.

CD57 - I know. Right? Fry Bug is the obvious choice for "what's on top" now, so I'm taking tons of anti-protozoan meds and herbs. I only got worse on Rifampin combos, so likely not Bart. I've treated the crap out of Erhlichia, but who knows?

I think my sketchy compliance has made a mess of treatment. When I get off schedule with meds I can't always tell flare from herx.

And I'm sure my Babs is developing Atovaquone resistance.

I always feel better with more meds on board, so I'm getting back on track with dosing. Continuing CSM. Saunas. Gym.

It may take a couple months to sort out the latest variables. But I will keep you posted.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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CD57
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I think the treatment for Ehrlichia and Bart is the same .... Rifampin and doxy right?

what happened to you on Rifampin? could the fact that you got worse on it mean that you were killing bart?

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BoxerMom
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I should be more specific. By "getting worse" I mean just that, symptoms increasing with no herxing and no improvement.

When I'm herxing, I may be feeling worse, but I'm actually getting better. There is noticeable improvement.

I usually just use "herx" and "flare." I should stick with that.

Rifampin was a great Bart med for me during the 18 months that I treated Bart. Ever since, it has not led to improvement.

I've taken buckets of Doxy. And I've consistently felt better on Mino.

I really think this is still Babs. And maybe Fry Bug. I herx and then improve on antimalarials. That has always been my pattern.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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Tincup
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So sorry you are feeling so bad. Just a quick thought....

Some of this sounds like herxing. Are you able to detox properly?

Feel better soon!

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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BoxerMom
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Thanks TC.

It is ALL herxing. I'm an OK detoxer. And I always feel better with more detox.

I'm just tired of the slog. Like so many, I've lost decades of real living to this disease. Still want to actually participate in life, in some capacity other than treating Lyme.

Yes, I am being treated for depression.

No advice, please. Just acknowledging the frustration and boredom.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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