posted
Hi, i had high freqency hearing loss in november after taking short course of Augmentin. That time i didnt realize that i have neuro lyme yet. 2 months ago i started to take doxycycline 200mg/day and i had second hearing loss. Did anyone have some problems similar to my? Is it oto toxicity or some sort of herx? Other my symptoms are eye problems and brain fog. Thanks everyone for responses.
Posts: 6 | From Poland | Registered: Jul 2018
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Sorry for what you are going through. It sure could be the medications, and also combined with any past loud sound exposures - anytime in your lifetime, actually.
And when taking certain Rx, the ears are more likely to be damaged by even sound that is not all that loud. The second post below will explain more and also what might help regarding liver support.
Liver support is ALSO ear support but there is never a guarantee.
Sometimes, hearing loss might reverse / come back when a certain medication is stopped but it can take a long time and there is never a certain way to know if this might get better. It can get worse, I'm sorry to say. So direct protections are vital.
I would try to find some other way to treat so save what's left of your hearing. Or, at least add in combinations that might have a chance at offsetting damage.
NAC - N-Acetyl Cysteine is one.
Eye problems and brain fog go with lyme but also when there is ANY kind of issue with the inner / middle ear function (the vestibular system).
Our vestibular system has great "control" over our vision, our ability to think, walk, talk, function. So it's not just hearing that needs to be guarded. Ear damage can affect just about every body function that requires some degree of motor skill or brain processing, it's that complex.
You might consider finding an herbalist, naturopathic doctor or perhaps getting a RIFE machine.
Whatever approach you take, be sure that you have the protection of not just LIVER SUPPORT but also decibel rated ear muffs . . . and proper ear plugs to protect when around busy situations.
I'm sure your doctor has informed you that any alcohol is not a good idea with lyme treatment, yet, also it's vital to your hearing at this point to avoid alcohol due to its effect on the liver and, hence, the liver's effect on the ability to keep toxins managed. It's the toxin overload that can target ears.
Also avoid even second hand smoke. Your ears need your body to have the best circulation possible now and any degree of smoking, or even being in polluted air, can impair circulation.
Avoid concerts, sports events and the like as even dB rated muffs and earplugs simply cannot protect your ears enough at large events that are over the top loud. Sound travels through the nose and bones, too.
The Shocking Truth About Prescription Drugs, Medications, Chemicals and Herbals That Can (and Do) Damage Our Ears
By Neil Bauman, Ph.D.
. . . detailed listings of the ear-damaging side effects of 877 drugs, 35 herbals and 148 chemicals (798 pages). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS & HEARING LOSS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Other approaches to treatment that you might consider, or use in combination:
How to find an ILADS educated LL professional in complementary fields (naturopathic, acupuncture, etc.)
Also includes article and book links by all kinds of LL authors - and information about herbal and nutritional supplements.
In Poland, and in the EU, you may have some differences in titles or professional organizations, still some of the detail here might be of help as you seek out other ways to tackle lyme.
It is vital to still treat, though, as lyme and some of the other tick born infections can led to hearing loss independently of Rx.
Good luck. Take care of your ears. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi, thanks for reply. Are You sure that is done by rx? Cant that be a some herx reaction?
Posts: 6 | From Poland | Registered: Jul 2018
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Damage to the ear nerves showed in your audiological testing, I assume. Otherwise you'd not be able to state that it's high frequency hearing loss.
A herxheimer reaction might have been involved - more precise - toxicity level too high in your body and your liver & kidneys could not keep it from your nerves
-- but at the point of nerve damage that registers in a test or even is distinguishable to you, the damage is done.
It might reverse to some degree with certain actions but it's nearly impossible to know.
There are many factors but if this happened at the same time or soon after certain Rx, that ototoxic Rx (or other ototoxic Rx, elements on board at the same time) is/ are likely the trigger and hammer together.
I'm sorry to not be more optimistic about this or say, oh, that's no big deal. Sadly, it is a big deal. There is still a chance that you might be able to slow further damage (that often follows), though. And that matters. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, but augmentin isnt ototoxic. In my country noone would say that. That abx is given to children.
Posts: 6 | From Poland | Registered: Jul 2018
| IP: Logged |
posted
Do You think that is that possible that lyme attacked ears because of Rx and by treating lyme my hearing might get back?
Posts: 6 | From Poland | Registered: Jul 2018
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Again, though, even with ototoxic Rx, it's a combination of things: other Rx, even aspirin, past noise damage that has not shown up. When past noise exposure shows up as damage in later years, it can come as a shock to many.
The protective myelin sheath around the nerves is also compromised with lyme and, with the lyme toxins, that accentuates action of other toxins (say with certain Rx).
The health of the liver and kidneys also a variable here.
Doxycycline is linked with tinnitus. And tinnitus is usually a sign of ototoxicity.
. . . Augmentin is actually a combination of two drugs—Amoxicillin and Clavulanate potassium.
The reason Augmentin is not listed in my drug book (3rd edition) is that it is not known to be ototoxic. ... Amoxicillin has been reported to cause hearing loss in a few people, and tinnitus in a number of people.
However, SCROLL down to see correction to this:
January 29, 2015 UPDATE:
. . . I wrote the above back in December, 2007. Up to that point, I had not found any reference that indicated that Amoxicillin was ototoxic.
**** Since then, I have learned otherwise. Here’s what I now know about Amoxicillin ototoxicity.
The following information will be included in the 4th edition of my drug book whenever in comes out–probably in a couple of years.
Amoxicillin has been reported to cause hearing loss in a few people, and tinnitus in a number of people.
In addition, and more commonly, numbers of people end up with dizziness, vertigo and vestibular disorders from taking Amoxicillin. Here are some anecdotal reports I have received on this drug. . . .
. . . A man explained, “My doctor recently prescribed Augmentin for sinusitis, and I took a complete course.
Result: loss of hearing in both ears, with volume and clarity diminished significantly across all frequency ranges, but especially in the highs. I now have to cup my ears to hear clearly what people are saying.
The loss set in motion is progressive, in other words its getting worse from day to day, even though I ceased the course a week ago.” . . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- In Bauman's 2nd edition of "Ototoxic Drugs"
p. 264: Doxycycline
Ototoxic effects: Cochlear Hearing Loss & Tinnitus
Risk assessment: Class 2.
May have many of the same ototoxic effects as Tetracycline . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Again, so sorry if this adds to the impact of all this. Most of the reports of hearing damage or hyperacusis (also damage) . . . is usually long after a drug is approved for market.
And, so many are actual accounts from patients yet are often dismissed by the medical world and pharmaceutical companies as after market "anecdotal" since the effects were not seen in the initial study phases (which are often far too short and far too lax, in my opinion).
Bauman discusses this problem in his blogs, articles and book. His work in this area is superb. But I doubt more than a handful of doctors on any continent know the importance of his work.
Also keep in mind that lyme, itself, can cause hearing loss. So, somehow, it still has to be addressed it's just that I'm hoping there can be some kind of protections in place BEFORE any ototoxic Rx is taken
or other methods considered for treatment that might still be effective.
And, sadly, again, a person's past exposure to noise damage -- as well as any cause of inflammation has to be considered.
you can also toss in this terms for separate searches when dealing with issues more to do with inner / middle ear balance or coordination:
vestibular -
[ 07-06-2018, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- One more:
Lion's Mane is a medical mushroom that has shown some promise with strengthening the myelin sheath around nerves.
There are some links to that in the Tinnitus thread - or start with a search of that term with "Paul Stamets" -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I know person who totally lost his hearing in ear after Rx and after long course of heavy rx he regaind his hearing about 2 months after that course. Also i know history of man who lost his hearing after astragalus herb. How to explain that? Mayby there is a chance in my story for succesfull ending....
Posts: 6 | From Poland | Registered: Jul 2018
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- As there are always many factors / variables in any case of hearing loss, so too, there are many aspects to consider for what might give you the best chances of a turn-a-round / reversal. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You might scout out a top herbalist or naturopathic doctor with a good record to help those with neurological conditions
and one who can really treat lyme or other tick borne or chronic stealth infection that is on board - as that is still vital.
You may be deficient in key nutrients, especially MAGNESIUM and that can set one up for nerve damage, too. many with lyme are deficient in Mg.
If your eye issues involve nystagmus (see Wikipedia), a magnesium def. is likely part of the puzzle.
And one who is expert in medical mushrooms, too. If they are expert in mushrooms, that would be a mycologist.
Top person to start with is PAUL STAMETS. Easily found on the web and at TED Talks, too. He might suggest someone even in your country.
Lion's Mane is just one of the medical mushrooms with promise for nerve fibers.
Mycology is the branch of biology concerned with the study of fungi, including their genetic and biochemical properties, their taxonomy and their use to humans as a source for tinder, medicine, food, and entheogens, as well as their dangers, such as toxicity or infection. (Thanks, Wiki) -
[ 07-06-2018, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Ototoxicity—The Hidden Menace. Part I: Lives in Upheaval
by Neil Bauman, Ph.D.
Excerpts:
. . . Reduce The Risk-Here’s How
You cannot do anything about certain ototoxic risk factors such as your age or your genetic makeup. However, there are still some things you (and your doctor) can do to lessen your risk of having an ototoxic reaction from taking certain drugs. Here are some things you and your doctor can do. . . . [list of 12 suggestions]
Ototoxicity—The Hidden Menace. Part II: Lives in Upheaval
by Neil Bauman, Ph.D.
Excerpts:
. . . Most people likely have a number of ototoxic chemicals in or around their homes.
Some of these ototoxic chemicals include adhesives, auto emissions, fungicides, glues, grease and spot removers, insecticides, insulation, lacquers, liquid correction fluid, organic solvents, paint, paint thinners, resins, room deodorizers, rug cleaners, spray paint, varnishes and wood preservatives to name a few.13, 14 . . . .
. . . Further, the pollutants in the air can also hurt peoples’ ears. Depending on the type and severity of the air pollution, people can end up with hearing loss, balance problems or other damage to their ears.2 . . .
. . . Most people probably think of air pollution as occurring outside. However, dangerous air pollution also resides within homes, offices and factories.
Many of the indoor pollutants are organic solvents. When people inhale fumes from these solvents, they slowly but surely damage their ears.
One study of workers in a rubber factory revealed 47% had subclinical abnormalities in the auditory pathways and in their brainstems, due to solvents used in manufacturing rubber.16
One patient lost her hearing resulting from several years of using spray varnish in her garage without adequate ventilation. Toluene in the varnish was the culprit. . . .
. . . Drug Interactions and Ears . . .
. . . Be Careful When Concurrently Taking Ototoxic Drugs . . . .
. . . However, with some drug combinations, using the same example above, the result is not 5 “units” of damage as you might expect, but a larger number—say 10 “units” of damage. This represents a synergistic effect.
With synergistic effects, the resulting damage is always greater than the sum of the damage of each individual drug. . . .
[The above articles are very extensive. Be sure to read and save for reference.] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some kind of dB rated set of ear muffs is required even in your home to use with: vacuum; blender; tools, etc.
Hair dryers also are very damaging to hearing. Top rated ear plugs required when around any hair dryer. Seriously, for everyone. Yes, everyone. Best to use only for a minute or two, though. Even at 90 seconds, damage can happen.
I can't vouch for this particular brand but it's just one to start with in your search. Your local hardware store might be best to see similar items in person. Research the authentecity (?) before you buy, though.
Google Scholar bring up many (but be very careful with steroids, they can make lyme so much worse, in so many ways. There are other ways to lessen inflammation, better ways.)
"Reversing Hearing Loss"
A regular Google search brings up many interesting leads with: "Hearing Loss" Nutrition . . . though you will need to sort out some of the gimmicks
New study makes a staggering link between hearing loss and nutrition
A breakthrough study in Nepal demonstrates a definite link between early childhood undernutrition and adult hearing loss — with implications for the rest of the world.
By Patrick D'Arcy
. . . What’s the link between nutrition and hearing loss? . . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
dbpei
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33574
posted
Sorry about your hearing loss, Szczur14 . Ototoxic meds can definitely cause hearing loss, but so can Lyme and other tick borne diseases. This happened to me. Before I took any meds, I had severe hearing loss, followed by tinnitus and sensitivity to sound (hyperacusis). This was before I knew I had lyme disease.
I had some vestibular nerve damage on the same side, but did not realize this at the time. I noticed I felt a little unsteady at times, but I was fortunate that my brain compensated for this loss.
Sadly for me, while taking xithromax for Lyme treatment and also being exposed to loud music at my daughter's wedding (I forgot my ear plugs!) I lost almost all hearing in that ear and it never returned.
My lesson was a hard one. But I am now extremely careful about exposure to noise, especially when taking any antibiotics or other ototoxic meds. Some of my lyme doctors have told me that hearing has improved for some of their patients with treatment. So there is hope, especially if it has only been a little while that you have been being treated.
Good luck to you!
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic