This articles explains how the blood was taken from Lyme patients and the culture of Bb was grown.

This article was published by four doctors: S. E. Phillips, L. H. Mattman, D. Hulinska, H. Moayad.

They found that the oranism is maintained in the blood, even after extensive treatment, and is in an altered state that can be cultured. This being the case after the Bb changes its cell wall. They call it a cell wall-deficient state, i.e. L-forms.

During the culturing the altered Bb was seen to revert back to the parent form. This meaning that it fixes itself given the right conditions.

I would like to know if there is any lab in the US that I can go to to get a culture from my blood.

I find the information published in this article as clear and evident proof that Lyme will be with me forever. Once the Bb goes beyond the first phase of IGM and can be detected by IGG positive, as it is in my case, the Bb alters it's cell wall and can NOT be detected or killed.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/009836.html

APMIS. 2001 May;109(5):383-8.

Conversion of Borrelia garinii cystic forms to motile spirochetes in vivo.

Gruntar I, Malovrh T, Murgia R, Cinco M.

Institute of Microbiology and Parasitology, Veterinary Faculty, Ljubljana, Slovenia. [email protected]

Cystic forms (also called spheroplasts or starvation forms) and their ability to reconvert into normal motile spirochetes have already been demonstrated in the Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato complex. The aim of this study was to determine whether motile B. garinii could develop from cystic forms, not only in vitro but also in vivo, in cyst-inoculated mice. The cysts prepared in distilled water were able to reconvert into normal motile spirochetes at any time during in vitro experiments, lasting one month, even after freeze-thawing of the cysts. Motile spirochetes were successfully isolated from 2 out of 15 mice inoculated intraperitoneally with cystic forms, showing the infectivity of the cysts. The demonstrated capacity of the cysts to reconvert into motile spirochetes in vivo and their surprising resistance to adverse environmental conditions should lead to further studies on the role and function of these forms in Lyme disease.

PMID: 11478686 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

John,
If you want to find more articles similar to these, then here is the link to the query page at PubMed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

What you do is insert the PMID number (last item in the abstract) into the query box and hit "go". Then, when you get the citation, click on "related articles". Voila, instant information overload. Have fun.

Oh, I almost forgot, to get the complete abstract, click on the reference citation itself, which takes you to its abstract. Some abstracts have an icon for the publisher's website, and some (not many) are available for FREE downloading in PDF format via the publisher's website.

I find this very disturbing. I am not sure how long I have had Lyme floating around in my blood in some undetectable L-form. I think it is a good possiblity that I have given it to my wife and possibly my sons.

I may have even donated blood with it in it.

The article is from 1998. That is 6 years ago. This was known six years ago and no one has tried to duplicate this work?

Institute of Microbiology and Parasitology, Veterinary Faculty, Ljubljana, Slovenia. This is not the USA. Why?

quote:

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Originally posted by John292:
What does NIH stand for?

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NIH = "not invented here"

NIH = National Institutes of Health

Take your choice.

quote:

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Originally posted by John292:
The article is from 1998. That is 6 years ago. This was known six years ago and no one has tried to duplicate this work?

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John,
The So-and-So's at NIH spent our tax $$ to try to disprove and discredit this work. Long story.

This earlier (1996) article was listed in the list of reference citations by the authors of the second article (ie, the 1998 article by Mattman, et al).

Infection. 1996 May-Jun;24(3):218-26.

Erratum in:
Infection 1996 Jul-Aug;24(4):335.

Formation and cultivation of Borrelia burgdorferi spheroplast-L-form variants.

Mursic VP, Wanner G, Reinhardt S, Wilske B, Busch U, Marget W.

Max von Pettenkofer-Institut, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitat Munchen, Germany.

As clinical persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi in patients with active Lyme borreliosis occurs despite obviously adequate antibiotic therapy, in vitro investigations of morphological variants and atypical forms of B. burgdorferi were undertaken.

In an attempt to learn more about the variation of B. burgdorferi and the role of atypical forms in Lyme borreliosis, borreliae isolated from antibiotically treated and untreated patients with the clinical diagnosis of definite and probable Lyme borreliosis and from patient specimens contaminated with bacteria were investigated.

Furthermore, the degeneration of the isolates during exposure to penicillin G in vitro was analysed. Morphological analysis by darkfield microscopy and scanning electron microscopy revealed diverse alterations.

Persisters isolated from a great number of patients (60-80%) after treatment with antibiotics had an atypical form. The morphological alterations in culture with penicillin G developed gradually and increased with duration of incubation.

Pleomorphism, the presence of elongated forms and spherical structures, the inability of cells to replicate, the long period of adaptation to growth in MKP-medium and the mycoplasma-like colonies after growth in solid medium (PMR agar) suggest that B. burgdorferi produce spheroplast-L-form variants.

With regard to the polyphasic course of Lyme borreliosis, these forms without cell walls can be a possible reason why Borrelia survive in the organism for a long time (probably with all beta-lactam antibiotics) [corrected] and the cell-wall-dependent antibody titers disappear and emerge after reversion.

PMID: 8811359 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

: J Clin Microbiol. 2000 Nov;38(11):4239-41.

Comment in:
J Clin Microbiol. 2001 Jul;39(7):2747.

Evaluation of a new culture medium for Borrelia burgdorferi.

Marques AR, Stock F, Gill V.

Laboratory of Clinical Investigation, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland, USA.

We evaluated the new MPM medium for the growth of Borrelia burgdorferi. All 18 blood samples from 17 patients with Lyme disease were negative. Growth studies showed that by day 4, most organisms in MPM were not viable. Our results reinforce the use of BSK medium as the primary choice for growing B. burgdorferi.

Publication Types:
Evaluation Studies

PMID: 11060098 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The above article was cited in a follow-up article in a further attempt to discredit the original work of Lida Mattman. (That citation is given, above, where it says "Comment in", followed by the journal citation.)

Then, when Lida Mattman tried to defend her work with further studies, the "PTB" closed down her lab forcefully .... after threats on her life had failed to intimidate her or to subdue her efforts.

There are powerful forces at work "behind the veil". One can only speculate about the motives of these key players, but one thing rings loud and clear. If the PTB didn't fear the Truth so terribly, then why would they resort to such extraordinary measures to suppress this kind of research?

And when the test was done in any other lab than Mattman's it didn't work. I don't know if those other tries included Detroit tap water or not.

Here is a discussion of the paper. http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/ideas/shows/bacteria/bacteria.html

Dr. Mattman has contributed many years of very valuable work, including work on sarcoidosis, and is very well-respected. If you "Google" her you get pages and pages of reference.

The tap water contains trace minerals in it. It was boiled, of course, to get rid of any bacterial contaminants before it was incorporated into the culture medium.

Let me see if I can find a couple of abstracts about the effect of distilled water on Borrelia.

APMIS. 2001 May;109(5):383-8.

Conversion of Borrelia garinii cystic forms to motile spirochetes in vivo.

Gruntar I, Malovrh T, Murgia R, Cinco M.

Institute of Microbiology and Parasitology, Veterinary Faculty, Ljubljana, Slovenia. [email protected]

Cystic forms (also called spheroplasts or starvation forms) and their ability to reconvert into normal motile spirochetes have already been demonstrated in the Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato complex. The aim of this study was to determine whether motile B. garinii could develop from cystic forms, not only in vitro but also in vivo, in cyst-inoculated mice. The cysts prepared in distilled water were able to reconvert into normal motile spirochetes at any time during in vitro experiments, lasting one month, even after freeze-thawing of the cysts. Motile spirochetes were successfully isolated from 2 out of 15 mice inoculated intraperitoneally with cystic forms, showing the infectivity of the cysts. The demonstrated capacity of the cysts to reconvert into motile spirochetes in vivo and their surprising resistance to adverse environmental conditions should lead to further studies on the role and function of these forms in Lyme disease.

PMID: 11478686 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

APMIS. 1998 Dec;106(12):1131-41.

A rapid method for generating cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi, and their reversal to mobile spirochetes.

Brorson O, Brorson SH.

Department of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg, Norway.

Mobile Borrelia burgdorferi were transferred to distilled water (10(6) per ml). The cultures were observed by dark field microscopy (DFM), interference contrast microscopy (ICM) and transmission electron microscopy (TEM). 95% of the spirochetes were converted to cysts after 1 min, and after 4 h no normal mobile borreliae were observed. When transferred to growth medium (BSK-H), the cysts became smaller and more irregular, and were filled with organic substances. After 1 day, 1-5 thin structures sprouted from the cysts. They continued to grow in both length and thickness until they attained a normal spirochetal structure. Finally, these new-born spirochetes detached from the cysts, by which time their mobility had become normal. The present method for producing large amounts of cystic forms of B. burgdorferi is well suited for further studies of this unique microbe.

PMID: 10052721 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Comment:
I still believe in my heart of hearts that the NIH study was never designed to get at the Truth. I believe it was designed to discredit Mattman's work.

Would you please tell these people to write these articles in plain English.

It would be bad enough if I were healthy, but my lyme-infested brain is having a hard time processing some of these words that are used.

I'm not making fun of you. The reason why I post these abstracts verbatim, as I do, is that I don't want to take the chance that my interpretations of them, as a layperson, might be a misinterpretation.

When I first started reading these abstracts and articles, I had great difficulty understanding them, too. However, because I was so passionate about getting to the bottom of this stuff, I just kept plowing through the medi-speak jargon until much of it finally started to make a wee bit of sense.

Don't be intimidated. It's a bit like learning a foreign language. As soon as you get the vocabulary and terminology down, you're half way there when it comes to making sense out of it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lishs mom:
The only reason that I can think of that a government of the people for the people, would want to spend millions of dollars to cover up something like lyme is that they invented strains of lyme that should never have seen the public eye....but it did.

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I used to think that the same thing, but I now believe that the economics of it plays an even larger role here. Here's a link to a topic which gives us a clue about that aspect of the problem.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/009854.html

And then there's also the vested economic interests of the patent holders who have a stake in the diagnostic tests and in the vaccine development.

Consequently, my "conspiracy theories" have mellowed and have evolved into "cover-up theories" instead.

In fact, I'm inclined to believe that Bb is probably the only BW pathogen which we did not invent. My ideas about this have been influenced significantly by the book "Lyme Disease and the S.S. Elbrus" by Rachel Verdon.

However, I do suspect that Mother Nature had extra help from the DoD when it comes to all of the newly emerging, insect-vectored co-infections. I blame these newly recognized diseases more on the lack of adequate security precautions in our research labs than I do on anything else -- with the exception perhaps of a few well-known "outbreaks", which seem to have a rather suspicious origin, such as Lake Tahoe, NV or Lyndonville, NY or Huntsville, TX back in the mid-1980s.

It sounds like you have read yourself into a medical degree.

Have a great weekend!

But I do not know. I do not like making accusations either.

quote:

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Originally posted by dmcbrayer:
TX Lyme Mom,
It sounds like you have read yourself into a medical degree.

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No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.

Some folks do call me a WD (for "witch doctor") though.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Which might be the problem at NIH.