http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4494347.stm

happy mama's day y'all!!!!

this is just horrible--I thought it was a joke--I thought this baby had been photoshopped.

Makes me think of the old addage about feeling sorry for yourself because you had no shoes until you saw the man who had no feet...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linda LD:

Makes me think of the old addage about feeling sorry for yourself because you had no shoes until you saw the man who had no feet...

L

---

No, Linda, there are plenty of Lymies with "no feet" too, to follow your metaphor.

What's your point, zip-zip? Here is a picture of an extremely ill child with a horrific birth defect as a result of Agent Orange. Therefore we should all feel how lucky we are? BS. NOBODY KNOWS how many babies are out there with horrific birth defects or disabling chronic illness because of Lyme.

NOBODY KNOWS just how many babies were stillborn from Lyme. NOBODY knows how many miscarriages took place because of Lyme. And NOBODY knows how many of all these things could have been prevented if the mother had been told what is already proven and known, and was even referred to by Allen Steere himself:

"Lyme can be passed to the unborn baby."**

Look zipzip, you were online just the other day posting how much you believed the US was justified in nuking Hiroshima. Clearly you're not someone who balks at mass atrocities against babies, or causing futre generations of babies with horrific birth defects, are you? So what's up?

Is it just your usual theme of supporting the Steere camp line whenever and wherever you can?

Lyme babies get hydrocephalus. Hydrocephalus is a comon condition and very often the cause is not known. In areas officially (and fraudulently) pronounced non-endemic, Lyme will not even be suspected when it is the cause. it is a dangerous condition and some babies die of it.

Would you like me to upload a few photos of hydrocephalus? it doesn't look any prettier.

What about video footage of Lyme children who have regressed seven or eight years, formerly bright and athletic kids who now walk like decapitated chickens and talk like the mentally retarded?

I ma sorry to put things in such stark and terrible terms. But that is what Lyme can do to children.

What are you trying to say, zippy?

There is an epidemic of a **serious and disabling illness** that hits children even more than adults. It's called Lyme disease. Do you understand this, zip? Because you constantly post as if you don't, and constantly ally yourself on other boards with those who deny that reality.

If there's a moral for Lymies from that photo of the baby poisoned by Agent Orange, it's this - the senior officers of the US Army do not give a sh*t what their weapons do to babies and children, nor on what scale, as long as military goals are met. Moreover they will cover up the mess afterwards. (Remember the US government is not just denying help to Vietnamese victims but also to their own soldiers contaminated by this chemical.)

Now couple that with the knowledge that a massively disproportionate number of Steere camp scientists and doctors come from a military/biowarfare background (Steere, Klempner, Barbour etc).

Now add on the fact that JJ Dunn uses Bb as the "sentinel" organism for detecting bioweapons, and that Porton Down (UK's Fort Detrick) discusses how they are keeping watch on Lyme and other TBD's, at a congress discussing defence against bioweapons.

Does that tell you something?

The real moral of that photo you posted, zip, is not "let's appreciate what we've got cos it could be worse", but "the Army cares as much about the effects on babies and children of the Agent Orange they sprayed, as they do about the current Lyme epidemic - zilch, zero, "zip".

Lisa

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymerayja:
Look zipzip, you were online just the other day posting how much you believed the US was justified in nuking Hiroshima.

---

bs.

a) that was entirely different conversation

b) i was not justifying anything, i was speaking in terms of the military strategy that was taken by others. fact.

either way (the nuclear bombing or the alternative carpet bombing and combat warfare) it would have been a brutal massacre.

see the 'fog of war' documentary. it gives good detail on the subject.

in addition i was correcting someone else's misinformation on the issue.

"history." as Huxley said "is bunk"....

c) i thought you were going to leave me alone. why do you want to pick fights and traduce me?

there is nothing to gain except self fufilling megalomania. i know, i know. you're a missionary. congratulations and best of luck.

quote:

---

What are you trying to say, zippy?

---

i was putting things in perspective, to cheer people up a bit on the personal level. things could be worse.

suffering is subjective, but compassion is objective and universal.

i have been to vietnam. don't lecture me on the war legacy. infact don't lecture me at all please.

and yes i know a woman personally with lyme with an 'autistic' child.

she doesn't rant and rave on message boards, she takes care of herself and her child to the best of her abilities. she helps the lyme cause in her own way.

quote:

---

the senior officers of the US Army do not give a sh*t what their weapons do to babies and children, nor on what scale, as long as military goals are met.

---

did you just wake up to reality? duh....

you should be more concerned with moska (a hindu term you can look up) than terrestial regularities that repeat themselves through history.

quote:

---

Moreover they will cover up the mess afterwards.

---

that's what you do when you crap on your neighbor's lawn and still wanted to be invited to the summer bar-b-que.

quote:

---

(Remember the US government is not just denying help to Vietnamese victims but also to their own soldiers contaminated by this chemical.)

---

the US supreme court deferred the blame to the companies that were contracted to make agent orange and they made a settlement with US veterans.

however they never made any settlement with the Vietnamese or their offspring.

that's the legal interpertation of the case that is being purported by those who are putting forward the interests of the Vietnamese.

the case is very interesting. i've followed this loosely for a while......

lisa, you need to do your history first, then promulgate your convictions.

convictions which i have no problem with, when adequately proven beyond a reasonable doubt, a point that i have mantained.

to call me a 'steere camp provacateur' is nonsense. i boast no philosophic or dogmatic line concerning lyme disease.

at the most i have said that the ideas put forward by Lab 257 have not been corroborated, that's about it. and i never fully disclaimed it.

if it comes to be the 'truth' i can accept that. which i have made clear times over.

*listen.... i'm a pragmatist, i look at the facts, digest and if i asked i will voice my opinion. as Helen Silving put it -

"Whoever knows or claims to know absolute truth or absolute justice cannot be a democrat, because he cannot and is not expected to admit the possibility of a view different from his own"

Lyme (and sometimes life in general) - it's an unfortunate series of events, and in time i hope it can be corrected and less people will suffer from it. including myself and yourself.

take care.... get your head some rest. pick some flowers, listen to some miles davis and take a nice, soothing bath.

here is something apropos i read today :

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;

- Rudyard Kipling

It's pretty awful stuff indeed but it takes photoshop to make a conehead.

Unless the bbc is starting to photoshop its images that picture is for real!

Zipzip, my Dad use to literally bounce me on his knee and tell me the story of the gerneral coming into Truman and asking him if he wanted to drop the bomb. The story is long and interesting as to casualties if we don't drop the bomb and casualties if we do--the telling as only southerners can make a story.

The final line is Truman asking, "Who started this war anyway?"

"They did sir."

"Drop the bomb."

Dad also had a copy of "If" on his bedroom wall tht he later gave to my brother.

If you ever saw Doc Hollywood with the old man getting drunk and reciting Poe--that's my Dad.

Lisa, both my babies got ld from me. As you say I just feel blessed I was able to have them, blessed they are as healthy as they are, and blessed there is medical treatmetn available to make them whole.

My Mother's day was made perfect when my 7 year old read me a poem he had written in my honor as we walked around the yard. The first line was, "Mother you are as pretty as a rose." Maybe 10 years ago but not now...but I am to him!

Linda

Yes, you did justify the nuking of Hiroshima, and the fact that it was in a seprate discussion is totally irrelevant. Basically what I'm saying is that the chances of you being someone who feels any kind of empathy for that child whose photo you posted, IMO, is pretty remote.

Now you tell us you posted it here to "cheer us up"????!!!!! Are you out of your flaming head?

And you say you were "just putting things in perspective" . Elephant-sh*t.

You're putting nothing in perspective. What you are trying to do is what you are constantly trying to do - minimise what's going on. No one is doing any serious epidemiology on the number of birth defects due to Lyme, stillbirths etc. The problem is likely to be **huge**, given what we know about the number of people infected, the persistence of infection, and the FACT that it can be passed trans-placentally (despite constant attempts by the Steere camp to play this down).

So you know a Lyme mom with an autistic child? Right. So do you "cheer her up" by sending her photos like this?

Ranting and raving? I guess to you, any person who wants to expose the scientific fraud is ranting and raving, right? Really, we should all just shut up and be grateful if we are lucky enough to have babies born with a round head, even if that head is three times too big due to a life-threatening hydrocephalus, or if that head can't learn the things a normal baby grows to learn, etc etc , because of Lyme. We should all shut up and smile serenely and quote stupid passages from nineteenth century books like you, right? And kiss *** to the Steere camp, right? Like you do on other groups.
Don't give me your phony sympathy:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zipzip:

take care.... get your head some rest. pick some flowers, listen to some miles davis and take a nice, soothing bath.

QUOTE]

Rest? Ha! I won't rest till there's justice.

And there will never be justice till we bring the Steere camp down.

Flowers? You go pick flowers, zip. I want to fight. We aint gonna win this fight with flowers.

As for Miles Davis, no thanks, I'm not in the mood for him. Why don't you go and listen to some Black-eyed Peas? Here, I changed the lyrics, just slightly, just for you zippy )

"Where is the love?
(the Lymerayja remix)

What's wrong with the world, mama
Klempner behaves like he ain't got no mama
I think the Steere camp's addicted to the drama
Only attracted to things that'll bring us trauma

Overseas, yeah, we try to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin'
In the USA, the big CDC
The liars at Yale and the NYMC.

chorus:
People paralysed and dyin'
Children hurt and you hear them cryin'
Docs can't practice honestly
Cos they get framed at the OPMC.

Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'
Where is the love (Love)

Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love
The love, the love

It just ain't the same, your whole body's changed
New symptoms are strange, is the world insane
If 3 weeks doxy is so strong
Why are there pieces of you that don't belong?

Nations droppin' bombs
New strains of borrelia were made to gas the lungs of little ones
With ongoin' sufferin' as the youth die young
So ask yourself is the lovin' really gone
So I could ask myself really what is goin' wrong
In this world that we livin' in people keep on givin'
in
Makin' wrong decisions, only visions of them dividends

Not respectin' each other, deny thy brother
A war is goin' on but the reason's undercover
The truth is kept secret, it's swept under the rug
If you never know truth then you never know love
Where's the love, y'all, come on (I don't know)
Where's the truth, y'all, come on (I don't know)
Where's the love, y'all

chorus..

I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder
As I'm gettin' older, y'all, people gets colder
Most of them only care about money makin'
Their selfishness got us followin' the wrong direction

Wrong information always shown by the media
Doctors trash your life, on CDC criteria
Denying the young minds blasted by bacteria
Steere prancing round, think he's a star in the cinema
Yo', whatever happened to the values of humanity
.......... Where is the love?''

There. Is that philosophical enough for you zip?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymerayja:

Yes, you did justify the nuking of Hiroshima, a

---

i went back and read what i wrote in that OT conversation. i never in an fathomable way used any language to justify using nuclear weapons whatsoever.

if you think otherwise i have to aver that you're interpretation is an erroneous revisionism of the core of semantics.

i extended a hand of courtesty to you, to bury an unneccessary animosity, a hatchet if you would, but you are completely antipathetic to anything i would say.

so should i bother? i'm not fighting with anyone on the internet anymore, what a big waste of energy.

if i have fouled in you in any personal form please accept my apology.

furthermore....

instead of wasting your time and energy posting about the atrocities of Lyme on newsgroups (with people who, with obvious contingency, already know about Lyme) why don't you channel your energy, understanding and knowledge of the subject into a public campaign.

i think it would be both cathartic and prudent.

you could write a cross of something like 'bullseye' (edlow) with kathleen's help and experience, and 'coping with lyme disease' (lang).

it would be a novel approach to interweave the science and history of Lyme with personal anecdote and testimonial(s).

you could use many personal stories of people who would want to contribute (not limited to patients but including doctors and scientists) and if you wanted i would contribute as well.

though my employment of language seems to be too erudite for your taste, (and besides the fact that you seem to detest me).

this approach in book form has not been done yet. it markets both fact with empathy and brings in a broader audience.

if you have no writing experience just read the books you want to imitate (and improve upon) a few times, until the style becomes close enough to rote in your mind.

i wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors...

zip

ps - you never did look up moska did you? there is a wonderful though lenghty book called 'philosophies of india' by henrich zimmer, a mid 20th century academic.