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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Are we attacking Lyme from the wrong angle?

   
Author Topic: Are we attacking Lyme from the wrong angle?
tailz
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I keep reading all these articles about how ticks are a big problem and 'striking' early this year.

- or how the deer population is 'out of control' and we really need to stop feeding them and start hunting them more.

- or how germs are a real 'nightmare' in general, so very 'smart' they are, and we need to get 'tough' on them. I'm not scared of germs anymore. I'm tired of being scared.

- and how we have these stupid wars going on a variety of cancers and HIV and pretty much the entire microscopic world anymore.

But the more I read, the more I think germs are not the real problem - not even the spirochete. I think they serve a purpose, whether 'science' agrees or not, whether 'science' has figured it out or not.

Specifically, I think we messed up when we introduced manmade electromagnetic fields, and around the same time, took it upon ourselves to poison ourselves with chemicals (food, water, air, and so forth).

Do you all realize that in Biblical times they lived to be 800 or 900 years old??? And we live a measley 70? - 40 of which are painful?

In fact, I feel crappy when I use my Rife machine even. I don't think it's from die-off so much as it is from exposing other tissues to the electromagnetic field of it. I don't think it's safe. In fact, I don't doubt it's killing my bugs. My concern is - what is it doing to the rest of me to make my head hurt so darn bad?

Every one of us has cancer cells in our bodies at any given time. Could Rife be killing the spirochete, but causing cancer cells in the vicinity to multiply rapidly in doing so? The author of 'Cross Currents' says it has been proven that cancer cells exposed to manmade electromagnetic fields multiply even faster than normal - and that cells in rapid cell division are the most susceptible to these fields (cancer, embryos, skin cells, hair follicles). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if grey hair isn't actually 'cancer of the hair follicle'.

And today I was fine until I got my head zapped with fluorecent lights at the grocery store, and then chemical vapors in the detergent aisle, and then I finished myself off by detouring my weary body down the freezer aisle with all the mega motors humming at me.

I don't think the answer to curing our Lyme Disease lies with any chemical. Our doctors are going about this all wrong. I think we need to turn off ALL the electromagnetic fields (including the computer I'm typing on right now and ALL electricity on this planet). Is anybody with me on this? I'm serious. I'm not kidding here.

I'm reading 'Cross Currents' now (by Robert Becker). He seems to think there IS evidence out there that even the electricity we have comming into our homes is harmful - in fact, he thinks that ALL manmade electromagnetic fields mess with a variety of biological processes and lead to disease, and I suspect that Lyme would be a bug that we would be able to kick IF we hadn't polluted the world with cell phones, computers, etc...

He points out that all the manmade electromagnetic fields we are exposed to CHRONICALLY today have only been around a short time considering (just over a hundred years), and that the biological effects of such fields are just now coming to fruition.

He also pointed out in 'Cross Currents' how species have become extinct at each and every pole reversal, and we are due one in the year 2012. Interestingly enough, the species to die off at these reversals are always the MOST ADVANCED species at the time of the reversal.

We are all going to die if we don't give up our electricity. I'm ready. Who's with me on this? This is serious - I CAN FEEL ALL MANMADE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS.

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troutscout
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I USED to feel all man made currents...until my Lyme was treated properly..with herbs and abx

Trout [Wink]

--------------------
Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within.
Let the claws be bared,
and Lyme BEWARE!!!
www.iowalymedisease.com
[/URL]  -

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tailz
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You can laugh now, cave guy. You'll see.

I can't 'see' the oxygen seeping into my lungs right now either, but since I'm breathing, I'm going to take an educated guess here that most likely it is indeed there.

Did you read the book or are you just among one of the don't-give-a-crap Americans who would rather choose convenience over saving the planet - and potentially everlasting life?

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tailz
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By the way, EMFs though not visible CAN be measured. And we are overdosing on them right now. Don't think you are affected, cave?

Wait until the two or three little cancer cells in your right testicle begin to grow and multiply while you are chuckling about how EMFs are harmless to humans.

I think the earth is round, too (hee hee hee).

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trueblue
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quote:
Originally posted by tailz:

Do you all realize that in Biblical times they lived to be 800 or 900 years old??? And we live a measley 70? - 40 of which are painful?


I'm not disagreeing electric fields are bad or what we've done to the planet but...
800-900 years old?

Got any carbon dating on that?
[Wink]

--------------------
more light, more love
more truth and more innovation

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summerlove
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Tailz you said,
I CAN FEEL ALL MANMADE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS.
I believe you.

Sounds like you need to detox.

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Michelle M
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quote:
Originally posted by tailz:

Wait until the two or three little cancer cells in your right testicle begin to grow and multiply while you are chuckling about how EMFs are harmless to humans.

I don't believe Cave said that EMF's are harmless to humans.

I further don't believe Cave has any testicles.

Your hostility robs your post of both interest and credibility.

Michelle

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tailz
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My hostility, Michelle? So you don't 'hear' any hostility in cave's post, huh? Okay.

Well, I'd blame my 'misunderstanding' of his post then on the EMFs I'm being exposed to, but since they can't possibly be the cause of anything since science is on top of things (like they are with Lyme, as we all know), I guess I just posted an honest post and somehow turned EVIL in the middle of it (all on my own, of course).

Thank you to those who believe me.

And to the person on here who questions the Biblical ages, why shouldn't I believe the most honorable history book of all time?

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Michelle M
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quote:
Originally posted by tailz:
My hostility, Michelle? So you don't 'hear' any hostility in cave's post, huh? Okay.

When a poster places a little 'smiley' icon in their post, it is safe to assume they are kidding you. It appears you did not notice that.

quote:
Well, I'd blame my 'misunderstanding' of his post then on the EMFs I'm being exposed to,
I was trying to point out - delicately - that Cave is a girl. It appears you did not notice that.

quote:
but since they can't possibly be the cause of anything since science is on top of things (like they are with Lyme, as we all know), I guess I just posted an honest post and somehow turned EVIL in the middle of it (all on my own, of course).
Sorry, but this is WAY too sarcastic to follow.

quote:
And to the person on here who questions the Biblical ages, why shouldn't I believe the most honorable history book of all time?
I haven't seen anyone suggesting anything of the sort. Perhaps because all your posts concern EMFs causing lyme, you haven't had time to notice the many prayer requests that are a regular feature around here?


Michelle

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foggedup
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trueblue...

800-900 years?...how can that be?...it is a question many have asked and have studied.

No one can explain what the numbers do mean, and no one knows what they do not mean. They should not to be taken as literal or historical.

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Gabrielle
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While I completely agree that many electomagnetic fields and maybe electricity in general are not good for our health I'm pretty sure that they are not the (only) reason for Lyme.

My grandmother who had Lyme since her early childhood grew up in a small village that got electricity only at around the same time my mother was born. Same in all the surrounding villages. They were using candles by night.

Only few people had a radio, no mobile phones, no electromagnetic fields - but quite a few people with Lyme.

They grew all their food by themselves, no chemicals, no pestizides, no stress, no nothing....

[confused]

Gabrielle

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Gabrielle
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As to biblical ages:

Even if the ages of the people in the bible were correct:

This would not mean that we don't become so old anymore because of our unhealthy lifestyle. In Genesis chapter 6, verse 3, God decides that the humans should not become so old anymore and limits the life span of humans to 120 years old. Which is about the limit that very old people nowadays can reach.

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Geneal
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Dear Tailz,

You know that families that live around sub-stations for big electrical companies do have an abnormally high ration of brain cancer and such.

I am sure there is a connection.

If it is indeed all around us, then how could you possibly avoid it all?

What about lightening? That is a naturally occurring elctrical field.

The possibilities/probabilities are endless.

And yes, our fore-fathers didn't buy meat pumped full of antibiotics and hormones.

But, they didn't live very long either.

Do you think that Cancer rates are higher due to the increase of artificial electrical fields and various poisons in our environment, or is it that

we have progressed so in the medical field that we understand and can label cancer now, or both?

How many farmers do you think went to the doctor's 100 yrs ago?

They didn't have CT scans/MRI's, etc then. Shoot, people died of measles, polio, etc.

The higher occurrence of Alzheimer's has been linked to many causes such as aluminum and longevity.

More people living longer, thus higher number of diagnosis'.

I think that you have to make choices for yourself that make sense to you and your health.

I believe there is a connection between all entities. A delicate balance that I am sure gets shifted right or left constantly.

Realistic choices for dealing with environmental poisons and such are really limiting.

You can choose to grow your own vegatables, slaughter your own meat, etc., but without a refrigerator to keep it cold, you could easily die from food poisoning.

Delicate balance for sure.

I sure wouldn't want to live next to a sub-station though.

I lived without electricity for 34 days following hurricane Katrina (outside). I think this is when I was infected.

Sure, you get somewhat used to it. However, it is a lot easier said than done to sit in 95 degree heat with 80% humidity and not long for that air-conditioner!!!

And thank goodness for FEMA giving out free bags of ice or we would not have been able to keep anything fresh and would have been reduced to eating only Meals Ready to Eat (MRE's).

Those are probably pumped so full of artificial ingredients. I know each meal was equal to 3000 calories.

Trust me, you have to experience it to appreciate it.

Good luck with your quest for a better, less complicated healthier life.


Geneal

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Kendrick
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Sorry, but the Amish don't live to be 800-900, and people living to 800-900 didn't stop happening 100 years ago when technology started growing.

--------------------
Never walk through a cornfield backwards.

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stymielymie
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your information on biblical age is completely wrong.
they counted age in lunar years not gregarian years, first off.

Abraham was 100 years old and sarah was 90 when they had a child.
do you really think this is biologically possible

no!!!!!!!!

people in biblical times lived to 30-40 and no older.
many diseases, inproper food preparation and others , shortened their life span.

life spans did not increase until the early 1900's

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=005860
docdave

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Kendrick
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He meant chesticles. I'm sorry you feel left out with the whole testicle thing. I have 3... no wait, I'm thinking about nipples.

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Never walk through a cornfield backwards.

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Geneal
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Dear Cave,

Now that (testicles) is thought provoking. My husband always said that I had bigger ones than he does.

Maybe this is caused by standing too close to the microwave while it is running?!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Geneal

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stymielymie
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i always thought caveey had big testicles.
maybe just to much testoterone.

i think she could take me i three rounds.

wanna try????????

daveey

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CaliforniaLyme
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I always wanted a mustache when I was a kid.... I was so disappointed this one day when I was seven or so and it hit me that I would NEVER ever have a big handlebar mustache...


The Bible is a funny book... How many children were torn into pieces by a she-bear for making fun of that old man>? A lot of little kids if I remember right! Yikes, where is my memory!*?? I took a class in college on the Bible and it was interesting-

and I really like the Gnostic Gospels actually-

I used to have a reaction to older microwaves when they were turned on- I got an uncomfortable feeling in my chest- the newer ones (last 10 years) don't do it-

I think EMF study is interesting-

I don't think it has anything to do with LYme myself... but it makes sense to think of it as impairing the immune response and I can see how someone would htink it was connected...

And I agree with you 100% tailz re the Rife machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think they have not been studied enough to have any claims of safety and I worry about people who use them!!

SOME people online do change their gender- and there is more than one regular on here who does that- not Cavey though (that I know of, eh Cavey*?)...

Chesticles*)!! I have those*!!!

Take care all-

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Kendrick:
He meant chesticles.

Uh oh! Now tailz is a man!!! NOT!! [Big Grin] She's a she!

Royal Rife invented Rife to cure cancer. According to him and others, it works.

If you want to avoid electricity, become like the Amish.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Kendrick
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Okay. Am I the only guy on this website? Now I feel weird.

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Never walk through a cornfield backwards.

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trueblue
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Nope, Kendrick, there are other men.

Stymie for one, although, lately, he's been crossdressing a bit. [Wink] There are quite a few others...
On this thread... I think, also, troutscout, correct me if I'm wrong.


I, however, have chesticles as well. [lol]


The site has more woman than men but is more balanced than most other forums I've visited.


Thank you Foggedup, Kendrick, Gabrielle and Stymie for the sensible responses on the biblical age thing. And thanks to Geneal for putting things in realistic perspective. [kiss]

--------------------
more light, more love
more truth and more innovation

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trueblue
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quote:
Originally posted by cave76:

Oh, my---- we have a lot of cross gender tendencies here at Lymenet. It must be the abx!! [Smile]

Or the EMFs! [Big Grin]

--------------------
more light, more love
more truth and more innovation

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tailz
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Michelle - no, I did not know cave was a girl. I think I just wanted to use the word testicles. I also didn't catch the smiley. Sorry. I just don't think EMFs are something we should laugh at. I think this is serious stuff.

The author of 'Cross Currents' isn't some bozo off the street making unfounded claims about the dangers of EMFs. He sites studies - many studies. In all honesty, the risks of EMF exposure (manmade) is being trivialized in much the same way as chronic Lyme is. We only see those studies that claim EMFs are safe. What about all the ones to the contrary? I should try to post some excerpts from the book, but honestly, don't you see that there are financial interests that would suffer if we were to declare all our current EMFs dangerous?.

For one thing, I think God created the world perfectly. We had everything we needed to be healthy and for our immune systems to function properly. Studies are showing that manmade EMFs are messing with the normal immune response - even interfering with biological 'cues' that send our immune system into action.

By the same token, manmade EMFs are creating changes in bacteria, fungi, and viruses as well. So that's a double whammy.

And actually, no - where are the prayer posts on here? I just don't like people questioning the Bible.
I honestly DO believe that in Biblical times they lived to be 800 or 900 years old. Why would we look for a double meaning to a number, no less? If humans thousands of years from now open a cookbook from the year 2007 that says 'use 10 apples', should they question our ability to count or interpret the number 10? They built pyramids somehow. They obviously were highly intelligent. By the way, how many lunar years are in a year? Do you know?

Gabrielle - EMFs have the most profound effect on rapidly dividing cells. In fact, in culture, EMFs can cause normal cells to mutate into abnormal cells - chromosomes break off or stick together all wrong when exposed to much lower levels of EMFs than what we are continuously exposed to. It's possible that the early use of EMFs causes genetic mutations in the fetus and that continued use is causing even more problems.

Geneal - See, one problem scientists are facing is they have no real way of setting up a healthy control group because, theoretically, we ALL are exposed to continuous concentrations of manmade EMFs. So at best we can only compare normal chronic exposure to normal chronic exposure coupled with some sort of excess (like occupational exposure from a computer terminal or radar). Then they hire 'experts' to report on EMFs who have a financial interest in denying it is harmful. How is that for a controlled study?

Lightning is okay - the universe generates that to correct imbalances. In fact, I just read another book in which a man with cancer was struck by lightning and his cancer disappeared - so obviously EMFs are pretty powerful.

quote:
Do you think that Cancer rates are higher due to the increase of artificial electrical fields and various poisons in our environment, or is it that we have progressed so in the medical field that we understand and can label cancer now, or both? [quote/]

The author points out that we aren't really finding 'new diseases' than in the past per say, but rather a drastic increase in a variety of old diseases (including infectious disease) and cancers (especially those that involve cells which by nature replenish themselves frequently, thus being more susceptible to these manmade EMFs). This increase seems to coincide perfectly with the advent of the light bulb and steadily gets worse as we continue to pump more EMFs into the atmosphere..

[quote]More people living longer, thus higher number of diagnosis'.

The problem with this theory is that cancers and so forth are not increasing in line with the increased elderly in the population, but rather AGE per AGE. More young people are coming down with diseases once limited to the elderly.

And Geneal, though I don't doubt living without electricity was hard, what made it especially hard was the fact that we are sooo used to A/C on hot summer days. But what do you think they did before A/C? I guarantee that if it was too unbearably hot, they simply took the day off and sat under a tree or took a swim. In the winter, they built fires or igloos. I'm not saying it was easy, but it was safe.

What if someone told us today that we could regain our health permanently if we would only give up our present-day EMFs? Would you do it? As long as I received instruction on how to bathe, feed myself, stay cool or warm, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

quote:
Abraham was 100 years old and sarah was 90 when they had a child.
do you really think this is biologically possible

Yes. I just read somewhere about a woman in an ancient civilization who gave birth at what we would call an 'old' age.
quote:
people in biblical times lived to 30-40 and no older.
many diseases, inproper food preparation and others , shortened their life span.

life spans did not increase until the early 1900's

That's entirely false. You have no recorded proof of that. The Bible offers many accounts of proof to the contrary, however.

If I should be fearful of using Rife because there haven't been enough studies done, why shouldn't I fear the EMFs I can FEEL every bit as much as the Rife 'fields'? We have no clue what long term chronic exposure to EMFs will ultimately mean to life on this planet.

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Lymetoo
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Abraham was 100 years old and sarah was 90 when they had a child.
do you really think this is biologically possible?

Maybe not, but it's possible with God.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Michelle M
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quote:
Originally posted by tailz:

And actually, no - where are the prayer posts on here? I just don't like people questioning the Bible.

Here's a short list, just from the Support forum... around 60.

Odd how those protesting the loudest are the same ones rarely heard from in these threads. [confused]

Michelle
_________________________________


Topic Date Forum
Countdown and prayers for Bettyg's surgery 28 February, 2007 General Support
Would it be wrong to start a prayer list? 27 February, 2007 General Support
A Prayer : Lyme Justice and Healing for All Here 27 February, 2007 General Support
Keep us in your prayers...travel & SPECT 24 February, 2007 General Support
Asking for prayers as i dont think i will make it 16 February, 2007 General Support
Urgent: NEED PRAYER for daughter of PHA editor! 15 February, 2007 General Support
pls say a prayer for my daughter 08 February, 2007 General Support
Need Prayers for Friday 31 January, 2007 General Support
Thank you for your prayers ... 26 December, 2006 General Support
blackbirdsings' much worse; needs prayers galore! 11 December, 2006 General Support
prayers for hiker and trails 01 December, 2006 General Support
hysterectomy this week--prayers please 26 November, 2006 General Support
An anwer to my prayers 22 November, 2006 General Support
Prayers needed please... 19 November, 2006 General Support
Additional diagnosis-prayer request 03 October, 2006 General Support
Lynn needs prayers right now 21 September, 2006 General Support
prayer thanks: endoscopy and results 13 September, 2006 General Support
endoscopy and colonoscopy/prayers please 11 September, 2006 General Support
need some prayers 07 September, 2006 General Support
9-3-06 update on BLACKBIRDSINGS; she needs prayers! 03 September, 2006 General Support
We could really use a few prayers at the moment... 25 August, 2006 General Support
BLACKBIRDSINGS needs your prayers ! 9-1-06 01 August, 2006 General Support
Blackbirdsings needs encouragement and prayers 11 July, 2006 General Support
Prayer request 22 March, 2006 General Support
Prayers needed... 21 February, 2006 General Support
Joke - male & female prayers 29 January, 2006 General Support
PRAYERS for two Lyme Leaders!! 24 January, 2006 General Support
My Mom is in her last days.....Prayers please. 04 December, 2005 General Support
Need prayers for newborn grandson ..... 01 November, 2005 General Support
Prayers for daughter 26 September, 2005 General Support
Prayers and Blessings 22 September, 2005 General Support
Hi Wife could use your Prayers 21 September, 2005 General Support
Your Thoughts and Prayers Appreciated...... 14 September, 2005 General Support
Hey everybody....Troutscout needs our prayers!! 14 September, 2005 General Support
would appreciate prayer for biopsy tomorrow 13 September, 2005 General Support
prayer list 11 September, 2005 General Support
Thank you so much for your Prayer 24 July, 2005 General Support
Thankyou for your prayers 29 June, 2005 General Support
Prayers for my Dad 23 May, 2005 General Support
Wifes having a hard time prayers needed 10 May, 2005 General Support
Mikayla has to go to Children's Hospital at Dartmouth on the 22nd.. prayers please 15 April, 2005 General Support
Need Prayers For Father 27 March, 2005 General Support
Please keep my daughter Mikayla, in your thoughts and prayers tomorrow. 22 March, 2005 General Support
IF they can do this to Terry Shi-vo are we far behind? Prayers for her needed. 19 March, 2005 General Support
Prayer requests for Jodie's (Crime of lyme)young daughter 18 March, 2005 General Support
Could use some prayers for my mom.......... 14 March, 2005 General Support
beach4so's son needs prayers............ 02 March, 2005 General Support
Prayers needed for my husband, please 08 February, 2005 General Support
My son Derek has to have MRI tomorrow..advice and Prayers.. 17 January, 2005 General Support
Need Prayers

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tailz
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I agree with Lymetoo!

I need to find this one excerpt, but the author states that electromagnetic fields seem to interfere with sodium concentrations in the brain.

Now if this us true, then this is interesting since sodium is a known conductor and all of our body systems (including our immune system) rely on sufficient electrical impulses.

Plus, sodium kills bugs! If the sodium level in our brains is too low, then bugs will happily live there unscathed.

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tailz
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Thanks for the list, Michelle! Consider it done;)
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tailz
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But wait - I still don't know what you clicked on to get that list?
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Michelle M
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Hey Tailz. Our "search" feature is workin' good these days..! I just typed in the word "prayer" and asked it to search ONLY the subject line in this forum. If I'd put the subject AND body, I 'spect it would be a REALLY long list!

Michelle

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tailz
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Hey, Kendrick. I checked out your yahoo page. You're pretty cute. Can I say that on here?
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Ohhh - I was looking for a prayer topic link on here. That'll work;) Thanks!
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Meg
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[dizzy] chesticles and testicles?

You people are sick I say, sick! [Big Grin]

Ok, this is on EXCELLENT authority. Cows who pasture in a field with electrical wires crossing the pasture will give less milk than normally pastured cows.

Have you ever stood next to an electrical tower or pole? Could you hear the buzzing whining sound they give off?

Does this mean it is giving off EMF's? or does it mean the cows are upset from hearing that noise?? The fact is, they give less milk.

Since I know the cows are easily upset by many things, I believe it is the noise....someone else could conclude it's the "EMF's".

Feeling crappy from Rife could mean a herx reaction and not EMF's.

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Success Stories---Treatment Guidelines

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Geneal
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Dear Tailz,

I do think there is a connection between illness and these EMF's. However, I think I lean towards a disease being more difficult to erradicate.

Who knows all the poisons that we have been exposed to and continue to be exposed to in our lifetime.

However, there was disease, plagues and death to hundreds of thousands of people over the ages. Not related to atmospheric pollutants or "chemically enhanced" foods.

I don't believe Lyme is caused by any of these vectors . I believe it is these contributing factors that may make it more difficult to treat.

I know that if I had not known what electricity is that I would not miss it. Boy did I miss it!!!!!

Ever tried cooking pizza for your children on a grill? I became quite good at it.

It may be that disease and infection are statistically disproportionate to the number of people living in this world today. I don't know.

We have created some pretty tough bugs to eradicate through over use of antibiotics and the bugs evolving to survive these meds.

It is impossible to guess how many people have perished prior to electricity due to cancer, chronic illness, flu, etc.

Autopsies were not commonly performed and those who had passed were quickly buried to prevent spread of disease.

I hope you don't think I am arguing your perspective. I do believe there is truth in it.

I is my hope that our belief in healing through God, our LLMD's and our bodies will help to balance the negatives in our world. With or without electricity.

Thank you for proposing such an interesting, thought provoking discussion.

Geneal

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dontlikeliver
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I'm sure electricity is not GOOD for us, and is very bad for some, and maybe affects all of us a little.

HOWEVER, I do not see that the human race is going to give it up anytime soon. And, what is a suggested alternative? Steamships? Candle-light? No almost nothing?

I also do not believe people once lived to 800-900 years old. And, like someone said even if they did, they didn't just stop living that long just when electricity came on the scene.

Lots of things are the problem, not one thing.

By the way, there was 'supposed to be' a pole-shift about 5 years ago too. That prophecy was not fulfilled. Nobody can predict when or if these things are going to happen, they can only guess.

[ 09. March 2007, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: dontlikeliver ]

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hopeful123
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[lol]

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some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield  -

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tailz
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Geneal - I don't doubt that EMFs are not the 'only' cause. I think there are combinations of forces at work such as those you mentioned - pollutants in food and water, chemicals in products, air pollution, overuse of abx, etc...

But the all-time greatest leap in disease stats coincides with EMFs gone haywire, and they have proven various side effects to EMFs in animals, culture dishes, and yes, even in humans already.

They've done studies on children in classrooms - one study was done so that kids had no idea if the EMFs were on or off and they didn't know they were being observed - and even then they noticed behavior and learning problems when the EMFs were in use (reaction time problems and aggression and so forth).

There were disease years ago, too (we all die of something - nobody dies 'healthy') BUT what if they died because they didn't follow 'kosher' rules, for example? Now I'm not Jewish, so I don't know what they consist of, but recently I read something about how everybody died of some plague years ago EXCEPT for Jews who followed kosher laws. So yes, we obviously were doing things wrong back then, too.

I thought it was interesting how I read about that one guy who had gotten struck by lightning, and his cancer miraculously disappeared. I'm wondering if that's what all this 'magnetic pole reversal' talk is about - and the year 2012. I don't think any of us know when this will occur, but I think the ocean sediment proves that these things dooo happen, and most likely, no organism alive saw it coming.

I can't say I've ever cooked pizza on a grill though - unfortunately, all grains and dairy are off limits to me right now because of food reactions, so I'd be in real trouble if I ever survived a hurricane.

BUT I finished the book - the author says that engineering-wise it would be pretty simple to lower the EMFs.

I guess in the past electricity used to be supplied by small companies to much smaller areas. They eventually figured out that they could make lots of money by buying these smaller companies and servicing larger areas with bigger generators and more powerful towers. If we went back to having power supplied by smaller companies, we would simply need to establish a 'safe' limit, and make relatively simply adjustments in engineering.

The author also states that companies keep crying out that they need to build more towers, yet we consistently use less power than what is estimated is needed to meet demand - considerably less. It's all about money, not safety.

He also states that when early computers first came out they were forced to put a limit on EMFs because they were interfering with communications(no lie!) So, that's how they came up with the current cap. But it's not low enough. Keep in mind that they established our current 'safe' level to protect communications, NOT PEOPLE! What if these EMFs are confusing our brain to body system 'communications' - that's my worry. My health really started going downhill once computers became so popular and everybody seemed to have one - so we got one!

dontlikeliver - I find it hard to believe that we lived the same number of years today (or fewer even) than they did back in Biblical times when just environmental toxins are considered alone. I think that would be less logical than assuming the Bible is correct, and they did live to be 800 or 900. The air and food and so forth were clean back then. They got plenty of exercise growing food and building tents (or whatever they lived in) and plenty of sunlight. How could they not have lived longer?

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dontlikeliver
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Tailz,

The air, water, soil was clean and farming organic, etc and they got lots of exercise even say in the early 1800s and they did NOT live to 800 or 900 years old.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about the bible as that is a totally different issue.

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Gabrielle
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quote:
Originally posted by tailz:

dontlikeliver - I find it hard to believe that we lived the same number of years today (or fewer even) than they did back in Biblical times when just environmental toxins are considered alone. I think that would be less logical than assuming the Bible is correct, and they did live to be 800 or 900. The air and food and so forth were clean back then. They got plenty of exercise growing food and building tents (or whatever they lived in) and plenty of sunlight. How could they not have lived longer?

Tailz,

I don't quite understand you or maybe you didn't read what I said before.

If you believe the bible word by word then you have to be consequent. And if you are, then you find the proof in the bible that our reduce life age (from 900 to 120 years) is due to the decision of God and has NOTHING to do with environmental factors. And as I said: nowadays, some people become 120 years old.

So, if you are a believer in the bible then the age that we can reach today is perfectly according to God's will and should not be questioned.

Gabrielle

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foggedup
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Gabrielle,

quote:
So, if you are a believer in the bible then the age that we can reach today is perfectly according to God's will and should not be questioned. Gabrielle
This is funny to me because my Grandmother is turning 100 years old this coming May. Since she does not believe in the bible I must say it has to be because of her OWN will. She is a character!

She is still living alone, cooking every meal, her house is spotless and she rides her 'stationary' bike 1 mile a day. She makes sure there are always cookies for us all. She was next door at her neighbors and came home to burglars in her house. She chased them out, (stupid I know, but that is her way).

I hope my will, will be that strong at 100, and hopefully the tick didn't suck out my chance.

There really is NO point I am trying to make, I just thought of her when I read your post.

Foggedup

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sixgoofykids
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Once I went to a talk by a priest who was a mathemetician before he entered the priesthood. This was many years ago, so I can't tell how, but he proved mathmatically that people did used to live to 800-900 years old.

According to the Bible, it was after the flood, which there is scientific proof that the earth was covered in water, that God shortened our life to 120 years or less.

It is thought that the flood was a violent time, that there used to be a protective layer of water in the sky that is no longer there. This would have caused a greenhouse effect and made the earth an entirely different place than it is today without the temperature extremes. This is just one theory.

I agree that at some points in history that the average age fluctuated, but you have to remember that a lot of that had to do with children not making it to adulthood. There were many people even in the 1800's who lived to be old, but there were just as many who died as children ... that gives the 40 year average.

I think the EMF is bad, but I don't agree that it has anything to do with our lifespan.

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Nebula2005
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Do computers generate EMFs? If so, we are all doomed, doomed I say

we need to go do something else besides sit in front of these computers

starting with ME!!! AAARGH I'm freaking addicted help

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Geneal
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Just a thought. Isn't EMF part of our planet Earth?

That is what makes electricity work.

Still think it is a thought provoking subject.

Does it count to feel as if you are 900 years old???!!!!

Hugs,

Geneal

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Karenelee
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Way back in the "good old days" when my great-grandparents were young, there was a lot of disease and death. The *average* lifespan was short, because so many people died as children.

If you made it to adult hood and past child bearing, you had pretty good chances of living to a ripe old age, but very few did get past the hurdles of childhood and childbirth and hard manual labor.

My great-grandmother died after childbirth, at home from a complication that today would have been taken care of. Her daughter, my grandmother, then went to live with her uncle.

Uncle Hervey had 8 children. Six of them died before they were 4 of common childhood illnesses and disease.

One of his 2 surviving children, a son, lived to the ripe old age of 21, when he died in the flu pandemic o 1919 and was buried in a mass grave on an island in Boston Harbor, which was a neccesity because of the large numbers of people dying at that time.

The surviving daughter developed a mental illness, and after her parents died lived out the remainder of her years in a state institution. I think she survived to her forties, no doubt dying from the unwholesome conditions in the institution.

And how do I know all this? Well, I happened to inherit the family bible, which was where the births and deaths were recorded.

And I'm pretty sure they didn't have emf fields. I also have one of the oil lamps they used to light their house, and my mother has told me stories of the ice house, where the thick winter ice was cut and stored for summer use to keep food from spoiling as best as possible.

Uncle Hervey? He was killed by lightening while riding the hay wagon in from the field, trying to get the much needed hay into the barn before it rained.

Not that I'm all for emf, pcb's, lead, mercury, and all the mulitple forms of pollution we are exposed to. I hate pollution. I hate that my body is polluted whether I volunteer for it or not.

And I do think there is a problem wiht emf -- I've been sensitive to it for years. Can't stay in a room with a dimmer switch on the lights, etc. etc.

I'd love to see a solar powered world, and community centered lifestyle in walkable neighborhoods, with readily available local fresh organic food.

You may call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one!

But as for me -- I don't miss the good old days, because for one, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have survived my childhood, and if I had I'd probably have ended up in an institution like my Great Cousin Charlotte, since lyme disease gave me neuropychiatric disasters.

K

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tailz
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Gabrielle, people were living to be 800 or 900 years old in the Old Testament. Actually, around the time of the New Testament is when I believe one of the books states we will live to be about 70, though I'd have to hunt for it, and that might take awhile. I do, however, recall something about 120 as well.

Maybe if I can find all 3 then things will make more sense. I do, however, believe that whether or not we are 'meant' to live to be 70 or 120 today, I do not question that at one time we were equally 'meant' to live to be 800 or 900 years old.

But see, I'm not questioning God's will here. God speaks of a time when we will never die, tears will be no more, neither will there be mourning or outcry or pain. He speaks of us having 'skin fresher than youth', and angels don't have 'skin'.

So I'm not questioning God's will here. I'm just wondering if God expects us to figure out we weren't meant to grow old and die, and perhaps do something about it to change what we are doing (starting with getting rid of all these manmade EMFs?) I mean, we all seem to be searching for eternal youth, and nobody I know who is healthy is eager to die. He put everlasting life in our hearts.

It seems we all have resolved that 'death is a part of life', but that won't always be the case, because God also promises, "I am making all things new."

foggedup - your story was interesting in that not to long ago my friend sent me a piece on a scientific study that proved that DNA is responsive to 'intent'. So if we have the 'intent' (and I'm sure this comes from God), God can change his mind. Gosh, there was a Scripture in which God actually did change his mind, but I can't remember where it is. I remember being surprised that even God would make 'adjustments' due to unusual circumstances.

sixgoofykids - We can only speculate how different the earth was around the time of Noah. I don't doubt that you are right. I do, however, believe that EMFs really are messing with natural 'cues' from nature. The tides respond to EMFs from the moon, women ovulate to the lunar cycle, it's been proven that August is the most fertile month for humans, key neurohormones are produced at cyclic times in response to the time of day and season. I just think we are underestimating the fact that the earth and solar system is merely a big magnet, and we have introduced so much confusion.

nebula - yes, computers do produce tons of EMFs. I always feel worse after sitting at this computer.

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tailz
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quote:
Does it count to feel as if you are 900 years old???!!!!
ha ha! I sureeeeeeeee hope so! [Wink] Huggggggggs!

karen - I know my father's brother died at like the age of 2 from pneumonia. My point is - I'm not questioning that we died of infectious disease in the early 1900's or even the 1800's. I just don't think we should assume that the 800 or 900 years they were living until during Old Testament days is inaccurate.

By the way, I'm a dreamer too - I'd live to live in a world as you described.

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stymielymie
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EVERYBODY GET RID OF THEIR CELL PHONES.
MICROWAVES ARE AS DANGEROUS AS EMF WAVES IF NOT MORESO.
http://evolutionofgenesis.homestead.com/Ages.html
info on biblical ages:
The Contraversy of Biblical Ages


Early in the 17th Century, Archbishop James Ussher attempted to calculate the age of the Earth down to the exact date of its Creation according to the Bible. He did this by adding the ages of Biblical characters whom begat other Biblical characters to establish at genealogical time-line back to Adam. Then to all the above ages, he would add the previous days of the Creation myth to the ultimate date of origin in 4,004 BC. His labors in this calculation were left unchallenged for centuries and the so-called "young Earth" Creationists have accepted that the Earth could now be no older than 6,000 years regardless of all evidence to the contrary.
Ussher himself admits vary variables, but one he did not consider was an assumed link between those Biblical characters who might actually have existed historically and those who's true origins are completely shrouded in the Genesis myths. Not only is there no actual lineage between the two, but the ages of both groups are still at issue.


Historic data remains inconclusive on many points. There are numerous discrepencies in the supposed ages of the first characters in Genesis especially in the comparison of rabbonic to Christian interpretations. There are even discrepancies as to the actual life of Moses himself. He was first believed to have lived around 1250 BC, the popular impression being that the pharaoh of the Exodus was Ramses II of the 19th Dynasty. Archbishop Ussher dated the landing of Noah's Ark at the 5th of May, 1491 BC. This would mean that the flood occured just a couple of centuries before Moses's birth. Not quite long enough to populate the world from the inbred stock of Noah's three sons.
However further evidence suggests that the more probable pharaoh at the time of Moses was
Amemhotep a.k.a. (Amenemhet III). This means that Moses may have lived as early as the 12th Dynasty in 1700 BC and chronicled the flood of Noah 200 years before it happened. By this rekoning, Moses would have died at least a century before Ussher's flood.


The flood event of Zuisudra took place approximately 1,400 years before Ussher's date. The Creationist's arguments assume the accuracy of Ussher's conclusion, yet here is a descrepancy of over 14 centuries! Odd thing that such an enormous inconsistancy could exist unmentioned, while young-Earth Creationists taut the validity of this document's every word and base their argument on Ussher's miscalculations.


The Zuisudra epic was first recorded in the syllabic cuneiform texts as much as 1200 years after the depicted event and still centuries before Moses' earliest possible incarnation. The gap in time increases once it is realized that at least the final drafts of the Old Testament were not written by Moses at all, but were finally ammended in 500 BC, about 1,000 years after Moses' death is detailed (presumably) by another author. An auto-obituary in Deuteronomy is unlikely, even for Moses.
Genesis implies that Noah and each of the other characters in Genesis lived to be several hundred years old. Even if that were possible, it would be unlikely that in such a hazardous and primitive world that there was not one character to have an accidental death before seeing the turn of his first century. Cain (banished) and Abel (murdered) are of course exceptions as their ages were never indicated.


Human life span has never really changed, if anything our survivability has increased. Where once we died of the first heart attack, we now commonly survive half-a-dozen or more and also survive far more than what would have done us in just a century ago. Tetanus and syphilis and the like have been disabled and trauma surgery was never possible in earlier decades. In past centuries, if a man survived to our current expectancy, he was said to have lived three times over the norm. We now outlive nearly every other animal on Earth and the few that still survive us cannot exist a fraction of the span suggested for biblical characters. Except perhaps for the shark which may once have been evidenced to exist for up to 700 years. Even with the recent life preserving growth hormone treatments, they've realized that a lifetime of multiple centuries is still impossible for mammals due to the continuing degradation of the brain. Other than that, no life form short of a tree contends with the duration implied in the Bible.
Each of the pagan religions are acutely attentive to lunar phases, marking each full moon with ceremonial significance. Many other primitive cultures and especially those in equatorial regions logged the passage of age not in years, but in months then described as lunar cycles. Some recently discovered ancient Greek tablets also describe Biblical character's ages in months as well.
If the ages of the characters from biblical Genesis are each divided by twelve, it can be seen that measuring their ages in months reveals a life expectancy quite normal for pre-industrial mankind. This is true of most of the Genesis characters. This is not to suggest that any of these characters actually existed, but most myths are loosely based on the adventures of actual persons. One of the youngest in Genesis is the concubine, Sarah at the concenting age of 127. In such primitive societies, girls are usually pubescent at only 10 1/2 old. Even in the last century, it was not inconceivable to take a pubescent girl as a concubine in many societies and such was not uncommon until relatively recent history. It is certainly more believable for that time than a 127 year-old concubine. Methuselah, the eldest, would have begat Lamech before turning 16 years of age which was the norm even after the renaissance and still common today. He would then have lived an incredible 65 more years to a then nigh impossible age of 80 years old! By this reckoning, Noah begat Shem when he was 41, not 500 and would have been 50 at the time of "the flood."


When the first versions of what would become the Bible were composed, the ages of the characters inspired by the Sumerian works might well have been exaggerated, but they may only have been misinterpreted. Such crypto-linguistic mistranslation have been common to anthropologists of all eras even including the translation of the Egyptian glyphs in the 1920s. It was discovered then, that all Egyptian numeric equations and historic records would remain anomalous with the rest of the world unless reduced by a factor of ten.
Similarly, the Sumerians used a special archaic number sign for counting years although it was seldom used for more than ten years. About 2600 BC when a Shuruppak scribe calculated the Genesis 5 numbers from archaic real estate tax records, he used a number system designed for counting volumes of grain. Hundreds of years later, these numbers were mistranslated by a Babylonian scribe who confused the sign for one with the sign for one-tenth.

docdave

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foggedup
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Thanks docdave...

I was telling my husband about this thread and told him I wish I still had a brain so I could express my thoughts.

I will get there one day!!!

Foggedup

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Nebula2005
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docdave

you rock

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Greatcod
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I feel like I am 900--does that count?
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stymielymie
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hey coddy you look it too!!!!
after my 3 kidney stones i hope i don't live to 100.lol

people:
this is real infrormation and do not want to knock anybodies religion, since we all come from the same genes, except my wife, they had special genes made for her.

just an historical backround.
what happens when you put 20 people in a room, tell a story and let it go around the room.
what comes out, a different story.

the bible was not written by god or moses.
it was written over time by man. over many centuries not minutes.
the earliest written form of anything close to the bible was the dead sea scroll dating
around 200bc.
these are the oldest wriittings of many of the text of the bible and the oldest found text of isaiah.

the bible was written by learned scolars over thousands of years, added to, changed,
revised.
this most famous book was a hand me down for cennturies and not printed until gutenberg in
1455.

from my jewish knowledge of the bible(torah)
which was the old testament only.
there are many errors , hidden messages and incongruencies in this text.

i am not a scloar, but many stories were probably distorted, from the truth.

there has NEVER BEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF ANY BIBLE
ARTFACT EVER FOUND.

isreal is rebuilding king solomon's temple and
claim to have the ark of the covonent.
they will display it in the temple.

this may be the first proof of anything from the bible.

so don't send me to hell, but take the bible ,
not as a word for word message from god ,but a group of laws, messages and stories, written
by wise men at the time, to give people the faith to believe in a god rather than an idol.

these had to be strong and mightly words to win over the population.

many of the bible stories are know being
recreated on discovery and othe rchannels and is very interesting.

it will not change your minds about the bible ,but it might give you more insight into
a more plausible story.

ok no more religion.
next class sunday morning, or sat if jewish or 7 day adventist.

docdave [confused]

Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tailz
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I think as humans we tend to discredit anything we can't 'prove', so the Bible loses on that account for many.

It says somewhere that God put 'time indefinite' in our hearts. You can discredit the accuracy of the Bible, but seriously, the accuracy of the Bible is profound.

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heiwalove
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thank you, doc dave.

this is a whole other discussion, but i just don't understand how anyone can take the bible (or the torah, or the quran) absolutely literally. it's a collection of allegories, stories, and myths, written and interpreted and reinterpreted by HUMAN BEINGS (all of whom were fallible, just like we are today). certainly, there is much to be gleaned from the bible, but for real folks, it's poetry. it's story.

in the words of one of my all-time favorite musicians/artists/poets/activists, ms. ani difranco :

literal

when they said he could walk on water
what it sounds like to me
is he could float like a butterfly
and sting like a bee
literal people are scary, man
literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world
of its poetry
while getting it wrong fundamentally
down at the church of "look,
it says right here, see!"


[ 16. March 2007, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: heiwalove ]

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stymielymie
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thanks lovey, at least someone hear has some common sense about the subject.

docdave [Big Grin]

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