posted
Personally, my kids wouldn't go. There are woods behind my kids' school and our church (same woods) that is infested with ticks. My kids will not go in the woods even if their church group does, and I've never had to tell them not to.
My daughter did go on her school camping trip, to a different area. I gave her bug spray and taught her precautions. I can't change the school activities, but I can teach my own children safety. She didn't go into the woods in this trip.
In Hudson Valley? When I'm up there to see my LLMD (I'm now done with treatment so am not up there anymore), I don't even step in the grass!!
Some will disagree with me .... that's okay .... to me, the risk isn't worth it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Can you join the planning committee and get the LDA to offer prevention training for the committee now, while in the planning stages.
If the information comes from outside, you won't be the one they blame for changes.
Lyme Disease Association -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
I live in CT and my son is out of grade school now, but every Friday his Science class went on nature walks in the woods. They have done this for years and still do it. Excluding your child would just not fly. They learn to identify trees, plants, etc. It is part of the curriculum.
They do put bug spray on all the children before they go.
For that matter, they could get a tick on them just going out for recess. There are trees and grass all over the school grounds.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I'm so glad I don't live out east!! Wow!! See, we really only see ticks here in the woods or out in the country in long grass. I got bitten walking through the woods, so I'm particularly sensitive to hearing about going in the woods.
I'm a little on the paranoid side, but I really don't want to have Lyme again. I was a little less paranoid when I was still sick, though my family would throw a fit if my feet left the pavement.
I go in cut grass, but no woods, fields, etc. This doesn't affect my quality of life at all where I live. There are so many variables to consider .... for me, it's easy to avoid.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I'm sorry, but I'd be putting my foot down about this - why ruin everyone's lives with Lyme and co-infections? We have to learn to live differently and make the changes to do so. If we don't, we can get sick. Our choice.
Even here where I live and it's not endemic yet, for the most part, people can still get it. Why take the risk?
How about figuring out how to get folks as protected as much as can be? This would mean speaking up about it, discussing the problem and collectively coming up with some plans to protect partecipants.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I'm with Six. If Lyme were "hard to get and easy to cure", maybe I'd let my kids run around in the woods. This thing is deadly, literally, and I won't take a chance with those who are so important to me.
Call me paranoid, tell me I'm overprotective....just don't tell me my kids have Lyme!!
Posts: 246 | From south florida | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Tracy, your point is right on. Opting out isn't really an option. Recess poses just as much of a risk, probably more due to the fact that no precautions are taken then.
Six, it sounds worse than it is. I have been vigilantly checking for ticks, especially since my lyme diagnosis. I have never found one on me. (I never saw the first one!)
I'm thinking along the lines that you are suggesting, Keebler and Robin. Obviously, I'm a little OCD over this as it is 3 months away, but I have a need to be prepared.
I just want people to listen to me. I don't want them to think "oh that's the lady who has lyme, so she's sensitive to this stuff".
I get that already when people don't take my son's food allergies seriously.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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The thing is, it's all woods around here, the whole area. The trip is to a camp.
Many of my children's class trips have been to places that "lymies" might find objectionable.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Hudson Valley is endemic, if not epidemic for TBDs. Guessing you're referring to Camp Sharp.
If it were me, knowing what I know now, I would not let my child go on such a trip. Lyme and cos. has just taken such a toll on our family, so a school trip into the woods just wouldn't be worth the added risk.
You could plan on doing something special with your child on that day. And, for what it's worth, ten years from now your child might not even remember that there was a trip like this!
If you are looking to have your child bond with classmates, why not have some kids over for a movie night/pool party/pizza party or whatever else you can think of.
-------------------- You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'
---Eleanor Roosevelt Posts: 748 | From somewhere | Registered: May 2010
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2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409
posted
I wouldn't let'em go either.
The experience of a day or two can't match the experience of TBI for possibly a lifetime, especially in lieu of the poor medical support.
I am so angry at institutions that drag our kids out into this compromising health situation. Always putting us parents in a bad position and forcing us to either reveal our problems or make us appear as overly concerned or crazy. When it's them that are ignorant. Why on Gods green earth can't they do something overnight at the Aquarium or Zoo?
Oh no, let's go hang in a bunch of infectious wasteland...."nobody here but us chickens and stupid *** counselors". Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Six, I am sure you never want to show your face in that town again. And I sincerely hope you never do!!!
No Alana, it's not camp sharp. It's actually closer to the Delaware than the Hudson.
And I kind of downplayed the desciption. It is an educational trip as well as a bonding thing. It's a big part of the curriculum for the 1st quarter.
One thing I left out is that due to my son's food allergies, a parent is required to go on every class trip with him. It will not be me this time. (I do draw the line somewhere.) It will be my husband, but I need to know that he can be vigilant. *sigh*
I'm still thinking about this...
2roads, you hit it right on the head!! That's just how I feel. (except the zoo)
quote: I am so angry at institutions that drag our kids out into this compromising health situation. Always putting us parents in a bad position and forcing us to either reveal our problems or make us appear as overly concerned or crazy. When it's them that are ignorant. Why on Gods green earth can't they do something overnight at the Aquarium or Zoo?
Oh no, let's go hang in a bunch of infectious wasteland...."nobody here but us chickens and stupid *** counselors".
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
2roads,
I love you!!! You took the words right out of my mouth!!!
Where did you learn to express yourself like that??? Must be a PA thing?
Let's all at these dumb schools together!!! ('Cause when I do it by myself I look like an idiot!)
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
I would give them antibiotics if I let them go. This is what my LLMD suggest to his healthy patients that are planning to be in the woods for a few days. That way if they did get bitten they would be protected. Otherwise I wouldn't let them go. NO WAY!
I feel very uncomfortable myself being in the woods or even in the grass and I am on antibiotics. So I totally understand those that say they wouldn't let them go. I wouldn't want to go and would be miserable the whole time.
However, I think if they were taking antibiotics, that they would be pretty well protected. I would start them a few days before they go.
Honestly I can't believe the school would make such a decision since it is such an endemic area. Why would they do something so risky? Especially to children! I thought that people up east knew more about LD than that.
Of course there are so many aspects to this issue. You don't want to keep your children in a bubble and there is so much to learn and so much to see and life is short; but at the same time there is that fear that over takes us.
I think I would just educate my children and if they decide they still want to go, then......antibiotics are a must.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote: I thought that people up east knew more about LD than that.
You'd be surprised! Many doctors have been known to comment "so, everybody around here tests positive, that doesn't mean anything!"
That is a great idea! Antibiotics...
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
quote: ------------------------------------------------- I thought that people up east knew more about LD than that.
------------------------------------------------- You'd think... except all 5 people on my street with lyme, each with different doctors, all heard their doctor's say, "we don't have lyme around here."
It's crazy. Heads in the sand, tails in the air.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by carly: Six, I am sure you never want to show your face in that town again. And I sincerely hope you never do!!!
Not unless I just feel like touring the Vanderbilt or Roosevelt mansions!!! But since I've seen both, I do hope to never have to go up there again .... haven't been since Aug. 2008!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
17- 5 people on the same street! I suppose there's only so much time this can be pushed aside.
I do know more and more people who are realizing that this is something big we're (society's) dealing with here.
I suppose it's time to be proactive in a constructive way. It's just that I have seen the self-destruction of more than one "lymie" who is frantically trying to be heard. I so don't want that to be me. The message gets lost while the focus shifts to the kooky messenger.
I think I need to definitely insert myself into the planning of this thing. I did not take an active role when my daughter went three years ago, but the did require bugspray (with DEET), sunscreen (a certain APF I think), rain poncho, etc. All the standard camping gear.
Thanks to suthrngirl, my son will also have the added protection of antibiotics.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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I'm close to Hyde Park. I haven't seen those mansions. Is it worth it? Or were you just killing time?
Also have you seen the Culinary Institute? Beautiful grounds. I haven't eaten there yet though.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Well if you do decide to let your child go, I'd also make sure he or she has eco-blends buzz-off oil. It contains no DEET but supposedly repels ticks, mosquitoes and flies. DEET IMO would be good to apply on the sneakers and the clothing. This eco-blends oil can be applied to the skin.
It's really sad that we have to worry about our kids as they're having fun. On the other hand, it's even sadder that the majority of school personnel are essentially clueless, even in endemic areas.
2roads, the "let's go hang in a bunch of infectious wasteland" statement is priceless and unfortunately true.
-------------------- You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'
---Eleanor Roosevelt Posts: 748 | From somewhere | Registered: May 2010
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
It's such a confusing thing...and I always end up thinking in more of the big picture. Should every camp in the northeast close down? Should everyone who lives here move to the city?
For instance, in my town is the Hole in the Wall Gang Camp, started by Paul Newman. It is a nationally known camp for kids with cancer. Children come from all over the country to spend a week there. It is an amazing camp, all set up like it is straight out of the movie "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid." Beautiful buildings, grounds, etc. But yeah, it's in the woods.
Our school held 7th and 8th grade campouts there. All activities were in the woods. They were team building activities, rope climbs, etc. Blake and I always chaperoned. The kids slept in cabins, not on the ground, but they were in the woods all day.
It's a way of life in New England; camping, fishing, hiking...of course we have made changes; but think of all those kids with cancer, all summer long, at that camp down the road....Paul Newman himself had a house on the grounds.
Every school in New England has similar activites, nature walks, team building parts of the curriculum that involve sometimes week long camp visits, organized activities in the woods. It is not an isolated event; it is an entire way of life, from recess, to softball, to soccer, to science class.
I don't know the answer, but I do know you cannot keep your child out of it all....we are already past the point of having to do that, our kids have already participated in it all. I think if I were doing it again, I'd try to chaperone as much as possible so I'd be there to ensure the bug spray went on, the tick checks were done, and I'd soak the clothes my kid was going to wear in permethrin.
I guess the answer is really education of schools, teachers, and everyone who lives in endemic areas. It's going to take some time for that to happen; it's not happening really at all yet.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Thank you all for your insight!! Everyone's been helpful, as I knew you would be. I got some very good tips, too.
One thing you said Tracy really sounds like a call to action, doesn't it?
quote: I guess the answer is really education of schools, teachers, and everyone who lives in endemic areas. It's going to take some time for that to happen; it's not happening really at all yet.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
I would be totally freaked out. But that doesnt help does it? Thank God our school doesnt do things like that. But i never thought about recess, ball games etc. Does soaking clothes in pyrethrene help? And where do i get it? We have woods that border the back of our property and my son and i used to go exploring. No more! But i guess i shouldnt worry about it since theres no lyme in okla right? *rolls eyes*
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
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janet thomas
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7122
posted
I'd try to tempt my kid with a really appealing alternative. Are years of suffering and financial strain worth a trip?
I give my dog 100 mg of doxy every day except in winter when it's really cold, below 30. I lost my other dog to TBD. If you travel in a malaria area prophylaxis is recommended so doesn't it make sense to do the same in Lyme endemic areas?
BTW, DEET is not effective against ticks. Permethrin is, supposedly. You can buy permethrin from Sawyer and treat clothing, sleeping bags, socks, etc with it.
I think I read that the military uses permethrin treated clothing.
-------------------- I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice but only my personal experience and opinion. Posts: 2001 | From NJ | Registered: Mar 2005
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
Misfit, you said it! I'd freak out too.
Carly, here's the thing: how sick are you? Would YOU be willing to go on the trip your child wants to go on? If so, go, and inspect him for ticks regularly.
on the other hand, do you want your child to live in fear?
Another thing to consider is, how much of a tick magnet is your child? Does he normally put out a lot of pheromones that attract insects? If so, no amount of bug spray will protect him.
don't mean to scare you but i'd rather walk through a pit of raw sewer than expose myself to ticks.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Oh come on! DEET doesnt work against ticks?? We cant win against this can we? I think my 10yo is afraid to go in the back yard now. I wont know for sure until it gets cooler...its been wicked hot here. And isnt pyrethren made from chrysanthemums? I watch Billy the Exterminator and i remember something along those lines. Its discouraging to find that what you thought would keep the bugs off in fact wont. Not to mention frightening!
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
*sigh*
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
I didn't mean to say that all bug sprays don't work -- just that it is nearly impossible to completely protect all parts of yuor body unless you wear a full body suit --
I attract insects no matter how much bug spray i wear. I manage to find them on my neck or head even though i always apply insecticide, wear a hat, tuck my pants into socks, tuck my shirt into pants, spray my clothes,etc.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
I've been buying Ambermin's Natural Bug Spray this year and have had great results.
It says to put it on every 2 hours though and that's hard to remember. But maybe for a 2 day camp or something, it's doable?
quote:Originally posted by carly: HAPPY 2 YEAR ANNIVERSARY, SIX!! (almost)
Thanks!!! Two years off abx next month!!! One year complete remission this month!!
What happened with the trip?
I loved touring the mansions. I like novels in historic settings and seeing old-fashioned homes is interesting to me. I also learned a lot about Roosevelt, it was interesting. I didn't tour the grounds, LOL!!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
I'm sorry, cottonbrain. I hope you slay both monsters.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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Well, first I'm doing a lot of worrying about it, lol. That's the first step in any project. I did actually find out who the chairperson is.
Now, optimistic- I am glad I check here before I went to LDA to order brochures, because I think I might just send them directly to the chairperson! Of course I'll have to follow up, because that's just me.
cottonbrain- I'm so sorry you have had to deal with two such hurdles. It makes me worry when you speak of being a "bug magnet" because I sure am one. But my son really isn't.
17- I def. appreciate the bug spray recommendation. I am printing this all out for future reference. There is no way I am camping out for 2 days (well, an overnight). I am quite sure I cannot trust my son to reapply every 2 hours.
One thing I have never really considered: Is he even interested in going? I should probably look into that and hope the answer is no. I just assumed he would be. It's one of those things that is "just done" around here.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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